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Hoenn Region Discussion Thread

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Emperor Empoleon

Honor of Kalos
I think that Soaring, and the riding Pokemon idea in general, is a nice addition for this kind of game. It felt like a natural progression to have field interactions with Pokemon, in such a way that they actually help you go from place to place. Its something that we've see in mediums like the Anime or Manga since forever (Ash's Lapras, any of the Flier Pokemon in Adventures, etc.), so its nice to have it as an in-game thing now that we have the technology to render it. Much like interactions via Walking and Amie. It just helps to make the adventure feel a bit more alive.
 

Akashin

Well-Known Member
I agree. I dislike the Soaring cut-scene, and the feature lost its appeal for me ages ago. I simply Fly to all of Hoenn's towns and cities these days.
I haven't timed them or anything, but is there a significant difference in the lengths of the Soaring and Flying cutscenes? Obviously Soaring takes longer (but Emperor Empoleon worded far better than I did why that didn't bother me), but is there any notable difference with the cutscenes?

I didn't have a problem with the cutscene, seeing as I was going to be stuck with one either way.
 

zapto369

Because I'm Worth It
Surf and Waterfall(and even Dive)aren't even remotely close to useless.
No, they certainly aren't worthless, but I hold the opinion that they are redundant. Surf is a pretty strong water move that even sees competitive use, waterfall can cause flinching, and dive is sort of a bad move (like most two-turn moves), but I could see using it. My problem is that you have 3 water-type HM moves that you need to teach to your Pokemon to progress through the game, often having to teach them all to one Pokemon since few Pokemon outside of water types can learn these moves. I remember in my original Sapphire playthrough, I had all 3 on Kyogre which is such a waste! At least in AS, I taught waterfall to Latias since it could learn the water HM's, but my points remains that I had all these water moves I didn't need (and I've used dive in battle, save for just for lol's sometimes).

The same principle applies for cut and strength. Do we really need two completely generic normal moves that you need to have? No, I would argue one or the other would suffice, or make one another typing. Cut to be bug maybe? Strength to be fighting? That's what's always bothered me about HM's in most gens, the sheer redundancy and basicness of the moves. Gen 2 had the same problems with both cut and strength and three water moves (whirlpool instead of dive).

I think that Soaring, and the riding Pokemon idea in general, is a nice addition for this kind of game. It felt like a natural progression to have field interactions with Pokemon, in such a way that they actually help you go from place to place. Its something that we've see in mediums like the Anime or Manga since forever (Ash's Lapras, any of the Flier Pokemon in Adventures, etc.), so its nice to have it as an in-game thing now that we have the technology to render it. Much like interactions via Walking and Amie. It just helps to make the adventure feel a bit more alive.
Agree, agree, and agree again!
 
I have a few ideas that could make it so there's not so many (or none at all) HMs that we need to teach our Pokemon in these games.

1.) I've thought for a while now that if there's something about any given Pokemon that makes it look like it's able to pull off an HM move, it should be able to use these field moves naturally without wasting a move slot.

For example:
- If a water Pokemon looks physically capable of swimming, diving underwater, climbing a waterfall and crossing a whirpool(*)then there's four water HMs done away with.
- If a flying Pokemon, or any Pokemon, is physically capable of flight or getting rid of dense fog(*) there's two flying HMs done away with
- If a Pokemon looks physically strong enough to push heavy boulders around, has sharp enough claws to cut trees down or climb mountains(*) there's three normal HMs gone.

This way, the games are keeping the whole 'trainer and Pokemon working together to overcome these obstacles' thing in the games that was mentioned a few posts back . :)

(* - in these instances, I'm talking about Whirpool, Defog and Rock Climb. Granted, they haven't been seen as in-game HMs since gen 4, just thought I'd include them here since they are still technically active HMs in some games (at least, I think they still are? it's been a while since I last played a gen 4 game))

2.) Or if the mechanic of HMs had to stay in the games in some capacity, somehow combine the HMs that are the same type into one 'master HM/power' for that type.

Surf/Dive/Waterfall/Whirpool(* - see above) are one Water power.
Cut/Strength/Rock Climb(* - see above) are one Normal power
Fly/Defog(* - see above) are one Flying power

Six (or nine, if you include those three older HMs) reduced to just three 'powers'
 

zapto369

Because I'm Worth It
I have a few ideas that could make it so there's not so many (or none at all) HMs that we need to teach our Pokemon in these games.

1.) I've thought for a while now that if there's something about any given Pokemon that makes it look like it's able to pull off an HM move, it should be able to use these field moves naturally without wasting a move slot.

For example:
- If a water Pokemon looks physically capable of swimming, diving underwater, climbing a waterfall and crossing a whirpool(*)then there's four water HMs done away with.
- If a flying Pokemon, or any Pokemon, is physically capable of flight or getting rid of dense fog(*) there's two flying HMs done away with
- If a Pokemon looks physically strong enough to push heavy boulders around, has sharp enough claws to cut trees down or climb mountains(*) there's three normal HMs gone.

This way, the games are keeping the whole 'trainer and Pokemon working together to overcome these obstacles' thing in the games that was mentioned a few posts back . :)

(* - in these instances, I'm talking about Whirpool, Defog and Rock Climb. Granted, they haven't been seen as in-game HMs since gen 4, just thought I'd include them here since they are still technically active HMs in some games (at least, I think they still are? it's been a while since I last played a gen 4 game))

2.) Or if the mechanic of HMs had to stay in the games in some capacity, somehow combine the HMs that are the same type into one 'master HM/power' for that type.

Surf/Dive/Waterfall/Whirpool(* - see above) are one Water power.
Cut/Strength/Rock Climb(* - see above) are one Normal power
Fly/Defog(* - see above) are one Flying power

Six (or nine, if you include those three older HMs) reduced to just three 'powers'
This is an interesting model actually that I could really see working in future Pokemon games. It reminds me a lot of the mechanics in the Pokemon Ranger series actually since they pretty use the same thing with getting through obstacles in the game. It's got potential for main series games as well, but I think we will always see HM's in come capacity in the games. It seems like one of those "traditional mechanics" that have been around since the beginning and don't seem to be going anywhere soon. But hey, you never really know and, like I said, we can all dream.
 
This is an interesting model actually that I could really see working in future Pokemon games. It reminds me a lot of the mechanics in the Pokemon Ranger series actually since they pretty use the same thing with getting through obstacles in the game. It's got potential for main series games as well, but I think we will always see HM's in come capacity in the games. It seems like one of those "traditional mechanics" that have been around since the beginning and don't seem to be going anywhere soon. But hey, you never really know and, like I said, we can all dream.
Huh, I never knew this kind of thing was already used in a similar way.
Then again, I only play the main series games, so there was no way I could have known, anyway.

I guess what we can hope for, at the very least, is having the more weaker HMs get turned in to TMs at some point in the future (my wild guess is Cut being the next one to have this happen).
I definitely agree though, that the HMs have been in these games for long enough that their not all going to be done away with at once any time soon
 

zapto369

Because I'm Worth It
Huh, I never knew this kind of thing was already used in a similar way.
Then again, I only play the main series games, so there was no way I could have known, anyway.

I guess what we can hope for, at the very least, is having the more weaker HMs get turned in to TMs at some point in the future (my wild guess is Cut being the next one to have this happen).
I definitely agree though, that the HMs have been in these games for long enough that their not all going to be done away with at once any time soon
Seeing HM's getting turned into TM's is totally possible, as I believe they did that with Rock Smash in one of the gens (4 to 5 maybe?). They also did that with Flash, which was an HM until the original Gen III and then it became a TM from Gen IV on. If that happened to Cut, I would be very happy, as that's probably my least favorite HM (save for perhaps Whirlpool in the Johto games).
 

Wulava

Chuffed to bits
Staff member
Moderator
Fly and Surf will forever remain as HMs because these moves are vital in preventing us from getting stuck at places. This is one method of error-handling in the game.

Cut and Strength will not be a problem and may be turned into TMs if they will not include a single Cut shrub and Strength boulder in the game. Or they could put those as long as they designed the map in a way that will not trap us.
 

zapto369

Because I'm Worth It
Fly and Surf will forever remain as HMs because these moves are vital in preventing us from getting stuck at places. This is one method of error-handling in the game.

Cut and Strength will not be a problem and may be turned into TMs if they will not include a single Cut shrub and Strength boulder in the game. Or they could put those as long as they designed the map in a way that will not trap us.
I didn't even think of Fly and Surf in that way, but that makes a lot of sense actually. I mean, like you said, they could certainly design the map in a way to allow for no or strategically placed Cut trees or Strength boulders, but I've never thought of HM's being used as a means of preventing the player from getting trapped.
 
Fly and Surf will forever remain as HMs because these moves are vital in preventing us from getting stuck at places. This is one method of error-handling in the game.
If these two are the only ones that end up being the only remaining HMs in the games at some point down the line, I would be totally okay with that. :)
We would still have the mechanic of HMs in the game, but the amount of them would be greatly reduced.
 

Miss Meta Mon

I ♥ Poké Dolls
What they should do is make HMs something like field moves or something, kind of like what they were in Pokémon Ranger.
For example, if a Pokémon can learn Surf, they can use the move regardless of whether they know the move or not.
 

vespiqueen

Well-Known Member
I was so disappointed with Lillycove. I was really excited about getting to revisit the city in ORAS, but it failed to live up to my expectations.
Honestly, most of Hoenn has failed to live to what I remember it as. I guess I just was blinded by nostalgia.
 

zapto369

Because I'm Worth It
I was so disappointed with Lillycove. I was really excited about getting to revisit the city in ORAS, but it failed to live up to my expectations.
Honestly, most of Hoenn has failed to live to what I remember it as. I guess I just was blinded by nostalgia.
That's totally possible, because I thought they re-rendered the region really well. I mean, there were a few problems or things they might have done differently (like the Contest Hall placements), but overall, I was pretty pleased. What exactly disappointed you about Lilycove over the other cities?
 

Lorde

Banned
I was so disappointed with Lillycove. I was really excited about getting to revisit the city in ORAS, but it failed to live up to my expectations.
Honestly, most of Hoenn has failed to live to what I remember it as. I guess I just was blinded by nostalgia.
I agree about Lilycove City at least. I just wish it had been expanded instead of only Mauville getting that treatment. But maybe my expectations of OR/AS were too high.
 

Miss Meta Mon

I ♥ Poké Dolls
I wish that the department store in Lilycove City had gotten a redesign or an enhancement, at least.
Maybe it could have had a better variety of items (better than it has now, I mean) or something akin to sales like in Emerald.
 

zapto369

Because I'm Worth It
I wish that the department store in Lilycove City had gotten a redesign or an enhancement, at least.
Maybe it could have had a better variety of items (better than it has now, I mean) or something akin to sales like in Emerald.
At least the sale on the rooftop market is on a consistent timeframe now (every Saturday I believe). I would consider that a big upgrade from RSE's "whenever the TV says so." Knowing that the sale does happen every week made it SO much easier to get those decorations.
 

Miss Meta Mon

I ♥ Poké Dolls
At least the sale on the rooftop market is on a consistent timeframe now (every Saturday I believe). I would consider that a big upgrade from RSE's "whenever the TV says so." Knowing that the sale does happen every week made it SO much easier to get those decorations.
This is true, although it is a bit disappointing that the only things on sale on Saturdays are those SSB decorations. If the stock rotated through tons and tons of options every Saturday it might make it more worth it, but once you buy one of each decoration on one Saturday, the sale becomes redundant.
 

zapto369

Because I'm Worth It
This is true, although it is a bit disappointing that the only things on sale on Saturdays are those SSB decorations. If the stock rotated through tons and tons of options every Saturday it might make it more worth it, but once you buy one of each decoration on one Saturday, the sale becomes redundant.
That's true, you do have a good point. I mean, I like the idea of making it like an exclusive Secret Base store, but rotating the stock so that each week is a little bit different, or at least it would take multiple trips to get everything, would be pretty cool.
 

Miss Meta Mon

I ♥ Poké Dolls
That's true, you do have a good point. I mean, I like the idea of making it like an exclusive Secret Base store, but rotating the stock so that each week is a little bit different, or at least it would take multiple trips to get everything, would be pretty cool.
Exactly. I mean, don't get me wrong, some of those items were pretty awesome (I especially liked the Castelia City model) but the novelty wears off after you've purchased everything. I just wish they had made more secret base items in this new Hoenn region. Or hey! Similar to how each 3DS system gave you a different Friend Safari in XY, they should have made several pre-determined item listings for the Lilycove sale, and your 3DS system determines which items you get!
 
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