Homophobia- why does it exist?

[Black Marauder]

Homophobia- the fear of, hatred towards or discrimination against homosexuals.

So why does homophobia exist? Are you a homophobic? If so, why? Is it because that it's a perversion, it's disgusting, it's unnatural or it's against 'God's Laws'? (assuming that God exists, of course)

I have nothing against homosexuals and maybe that's why I would like to know why others do. I'd like to see your views and I'll expand on mine later.

 

[Khamul]

Maybe because It's unnatural, at least IMO. If it was natural then maybe our biological structures would have been adjusted to that.

 

[Black Marauder]

Maybe because It's unnatural, at least IMO. If it was natural then maybe our biological structures would have been adjusted to that.

But how could it be unnatural when hormones control the feelings of both homosexuals and heterosexuals?

 

[aerisLana]

I have nothing against homosexuals too. Some of my friends are gay actually, and I guess that's ok for me because I'm a girl. And besides, those people who want to be homosexual, I guess it's fine because it's their life anyway, and we have no rights to change their trait of being a homo.

I think the reason why some people have homophobia is because those people don't want to be affected by homosexuals. They are afraid to act like them; that's why they often stay away from homosexuals. Well, that's my only opinion, so no complaining!

 

[Moeteimasu Umi]

I would really love to know how the hell it is unnatural. EVERY species on the Earth practices homosexuality. Fish(The ones that actually have intercourse) have homosexual sex, dogs have homosexual sex, cats have homosexual sex, seals have homosexual sex. Want more animals who do? Well EVERY ONE DOES. It is in no way unnatural because if every animal does it, then its natural. We just have the ability to think. We think its wrong. We think its unnatural. We think they are sinners -throws up bible and shoots it with AK47-. But really, WE THINK WRONG!

 

[Khamul]

But how could it be unnatural when hormones control the feelings of both homosexuals and heterosexuals?

I have no idea, I just wanted to say something stupid.....well seeing men having homosexual sex with each other seems wrong, even anatomy doesn't agree with it.

 

[firepokemon]

Homophobia exists because for years the church said it was wrong, the government said it was wrong, parents said it was wrong and institutions said it was wrong. People can say its unnatural and all the rest, but the reason it exists is because for years it was taught to be immoral and for many they still believe that. Why is there still racism? Because for years it was taught and allowed for certain races to be hated. It take years to undo things. The fact is homophobia is still allowed in the church, in the government, in institutions and ultimately parents. Thus it will continue to exist.

 

[Hammerheart]

i have nothing at all against homosexuals, though i feel the word homophobia is the wrong word to use, a phobia is a fear of something, were as homophobia is the name given to a prejudice against homosexuals, but i dont think they scare people.

its more an ism than a phobia. maybe homoism? i dont know.

 

[Yonowaru in Chaos]

Prejudice is definitely a strong factor, especially since homosexuals are the minority here, and have few people to represent them.

i have nothing at all against homosexuals, though i feel the word homophobia is the wrong word to use, a phobia is a fear of something, were as homophobia is the name given to a prejudice against homosexuals, but i dont think they scare people.

its more an ism than a phobia. maybe homoism? i dont know.

Well from 'anti-Semitism', we can deduce that its definitively correct to say 'anti-homosexualism'.

 

[dragonstonerocks]

... A homophobe is just someone that is afraid to look at someone other than what they chose as their lfe choice. Is there a word for people that are afraid of/dislike a homophobe? there should be one. Finally, homophobes are afraid of new/different things.

 

[Gardevoir Girl]

i have nothing at all against homosexuals, though i feel the word homophobia is the wrong word to use, a phobia is a fear of something, were as homophobia is the name given to a prejudice against homosexuals, but i dont think they scare people.

its more an ism than a phobia. maybe homoism? i dont know.

For some people, it is a fear. For others, it's something they see as disgusting and unnatural, and they argue that nature (or God) created desire between males and females and anything straying from this is unnatural and against God. I used to have a homophobic friend who used almost these exact words once.

As for me, I used to be homophobic but I actually have a brain now. It's already been said that all animals (or all the ones that reproduce sexually) experiment with homosexuality, and having seen this myself I agree. In my opinion, homosexuality is just as natural as heterosexuality. And if God(s) actually exist(s), why would (s)he allow homosexuality if it isn't natural?

Homophobes may also argue that there is no point in the union of male/male or female/female because they can't reproduce. Does that mean that sterile people are unnatural because they can't reproduce? And anyway, I'm sure the people who have never heard of birth control and end up with twelve or more children can more than make up for that.

~GG~

 

[Khamul]

I would really love to know how the hell it is unnatural. EVERY species on the Earth practices homosexuality. Fish(The ones that actually have intercourse) have homosexual sex, dogs have homosexual sex, cats have homosexual sex, seals have homosexual sex. Want more animals who do? Well EVERY ONE DOES. It is in no way unnatural because if every animal does it, then its natural. We just have the ability to think. We think its wrong. We think its unnatural. We think they are sinners -throws up bible and shoots it with AK47-. But really, WE THINK WRONG!

Just because every species on earth does it doesn't mean it's right, that's just like falling into peer pressure.....what if all species would practice cannibalism, would you still consider it right?

 

[Geist]

Just because every species on earth does it doesn't mean it's right, that's just like falling into peer pressure.....what if all species would practice cannibalism, would you still consider it right?

While it does not mean that it is "right", it does however indicate that it is natural. That has nothing to do with peer pressure, it is pure common sense. You stated that it was unnatural and you have just been disproven. As for cannibalism: every species tries to ensure its existance, cannibalism would be hindering in that. If it comes to eating another being of your species if you have no other way of surviving otherwise, I don't see what would make it "wrong". We do have the instinct to survive for a reason (not sure, what the word for that instict in English is at the moment).

Furthermore, "right" and "wrong" are just a question of perspective. If you look at the greater picture, "right" and "wrong" are utterly nonexistant and without any meaning whatsoever. There is nothing in the world that is without a doubt "right" or "wrong".

As for why homophobia still exists? Some people still hang on to silly traditions, instead of ever putting in an effort to think for themselves. No intelligent human being can find a single argument against homosexuality that isn't based on personal values and their own bigotry.

 

[Strants]

If 'unnatural' means abnormal (which it often does), then that argument is foolish. If you look around the universe, or at least our solar system, you will find a lack of life. As such, life is the minority to non-life, so life is unnatural, and as such, perhaps, wrong. Seriously.

As far as disgusting goes, I find that argument a little odd, too. Things are often disgusting for a reason; e.g., you find what you ate disgusting after learning it was, say, a hamster. There has to be a cause for your disgust, so the disgust must come after the reason to find it disgusting. As such 'disgusting' isn't a real argument.

Perversion is along a similar path; one must assume that heterosexuality is right, homosexuality is wrong, and that homosexuality derived from heterosexuality.

The argument stating that it is against God is the most likely (or reasonable, the unnatural argument could work as well). People were told that God said homosexuality is wrong, and as God is always right, the people decided homosexuality IS wrong. Or at least, a fair amount did.

 

[Zora]

I have no idea, I just wanted to say something stupid.....well seeing men having homosexual sex with each other seems wrong, even anatomy doesn't agree with it.

Physically, homosexuality seems wrong. If you go down to chemistry though particularly in the area of the brain related to sex and sexuality, you will see some chemical differences.


As for why homophobia exists? Generally, people say it is unnatural. Some people use religion, but most people are selective about the Bible anyways (especially with the Old Testament, which is actually incoherent on homosexuality due to having a few quotes saying it is wrong, but having a few stories where homosexuality was present). Really, it comes down to the people. There argument? Generally it is unnatural, but there is a flaw:

Homosexuality is phenetic
Anything that is phenetic is deemed natural
Homosexuality is natural.

It is worth noting that the New Testament quotes generally refer to sodomites, and only once refers to homosexuality, using the reasoning that is is unnatural. That cannot be true if homosexuality is phenetic.

If you want to argue that homosexuality is a direct obvious choice that involve you doing actions (as opposed to actions be done upon you) with predictable outcomes EVEN FOR A CHILD as opposed to being at the very least phenetic, go ahead. I doubt you will get far though. There is some strong inductive reasoning, such as why would so many homosexuals go into such a lifestyle if it were a choice and they could make instantaneously? Why is reperative therapy such a failure and almost never has a life-long result (and the few that do get life-long results doesn't justify the problems that come out of it). Go on and on. It is easier to admit that homosexuality is phenetic than to argue the case that homosexuality is a direct choice that involve obvious choices that involve you doing actions with predictable outcomes even for a child.

And yes, the whole "Direct choice..." seems extraneous, but if one of those were not there the entire argument of homosexuality not being phenetic would fall apart.


Really, homophobia exists because people don't want to accept that it is natural, they don't like the idea, they want to hang on to tradition or religion, et cetera, et cetera. Simple put, people don't want to change.

 

[ResidentEcruteak]

Homophobia- the fear of, hatred towards or discrimination against homosexuals.

So why does homophobia exist?

I think the web site, that you gave, pretty much explains why homophobia exists.

Are you a homophobic? If so, why?

Not really; I don't hate, fear or discriminate against homosexuals any more than anyone else.

We think its wrong. We think its unnatural. We think they are sinners -throws up bible and shoots it with AK47-. But really, WE THINK WRONG!

Lol. It never stops to amaze me how people go on ranting about how wrong it is to say anything negative about something while they self rant how wrong something is. Talk about hypocrisy here.

And if God(s) actually exist(s), why would (s)he allow homosexuality if it isn't natural?

That God(s) could be merciful.

No intelligent human being can find a single argument against homosexuality that isn't based on personal values and their own bigotry.

Well... duh. I think that, to certain extent, that aplies to all people and all arguments.

(especially with the Old Testament, which is actually incoherent on homosexuality due to having a few quotes saying it is wrong, but having a few stories where homosexuality was not there)

Could you elaborate on that?

 

[Ethan]

If you want to argue that homosexuality is a direct obvious choice that involve you doing actions (as opposed to actions be done upon you) with predictable outcomes EVEN FOR A CHILD as opposed to being at the very least phenetic, go ahead. I doubt you will get far though. There is some strong inductive reasoning, such as why would so many homosexuals go into such a lifestyle if it were a choice and they could make instantaneously? Why is reperative therapy such a failure and almost never has a life-long result (and the few that do get life-long results doesn't justify the problems that come out of it). Go on and on. It is easier to admit that homosexuality is phenetic than to argue the case that homosexuality is a direct choice that involve obvious choices that involve you doing actions with predictable outcomes even for a child.

I believe I've taken you up on every single one of those points. Do you wish to duke it out again?

Ultimatley I think this topic is far too biased. The only thing you can really argue from a secular perspective is whether or not homosexuality is a choice. The reason why that topic is important is because homosexuals can free themselves from all moral accountablilty. I become appalled every time I see a thread like this with ignorant statements such as "Your born with it." or "It's been proven by science." when the opposing side can use the exact same fire. The last thread has most of the opposition finished but after we left what happened? You guessed it. They assert the same things that they had refuted. Like in the smoking thread. GrizzlyB did an excellent job of crushing the opposition. Once he's gone, they just repeat the same things over again. I'm not trying to assert myself here as it might sound but this just becomes one big debacle and a merry-go-round.

I would be more inclined to have a 1-on-1 debate on this if anyone is interested. If you are, let me know.

Furthermore, "right" and "wrong" are just a question of perspective. If you look at the greater picture, "right" and "wrong" are utterly nonexistant and without any meaning whatsoever. There is nothing in the world that is without a doubt "right" or "wrong".

Another moral relativist fool. If you think raping a child for fun might be "right" in ANY situation then that is simply pitiful. I'll take you up on this too.

 

[Zora]

http://www.bidstrup.com/pardata.htm#bible

Sorry, my wording was not the best. Anyways, I trying to find resources that I may need to lend to my parents (particularly my Dad), so I was going on some websites when I cam across this:

http://www.bidstrup.com/pardata.htm#bible

Gay people see themselves portrayed positively in several places in the bible. In the Old Testament, the entire book of Ruth is one of the most beautiful stories of love between two women that has ever been written. How ironic it is that many passages from this beautiful scripture have been used over the years in heterosexual marriage ceremonies!

The story of David and Johnathan in the book of I Samuel is also a beautiful gay love story (I Samuel 19:1 through 23:29). In it, each shows the committment and sacrifice for each other that every gay couple has experienced and can instantly recognize.

Even Jesus was unquestionably aware of homosexuality, and yet there is no record that he ever condemned it. In at least one instance, he praised the faith of a gay man! In the original Greek version of the beautiful story of Jesus healing the centurion's servant (Matthew 8:5-13, Luke 7:2-10), the words used to describe the centurion's companion isn't "servant" at all. They translate accurately as "beloved boy," a phrase that clearly connotes the common practice at the time of older gay men or gay men in positions of authority keeping younger men as their lovers and partners.

So, that is pretty much it. Also, there was this long thesis essay that I need to find again (will edit in soon) that talks about how homosexuality in the Bible was not considering homosexuality is it is used today, thus the quotes do not transition well. Edit: Here it is: http://lesbianlife.about.com/gi/dyn...org/article/homosexuality-bible-gay-christian

I believe I've taken you up on every single one of those points. Do you wish to duke it out again?

Ultimatley I think this topic is far too biased. The only thing you can really argue from a secular perspective is whether or not homosexuality is a choice. The reason why that topic is important is because homosexuals can free themselves from all moral accountablilty. I become appalled every time I see a thread like this with ignorant statements such as "Your born with it." or "It's been proven by science." when the opposing side can use the exact same fire. The last thread has most of the opposition finished but after we left what happened? You guessed it. They assert the same things that they had refuted. Like in the smoking thread. GrizzlyB did an excellent job of crushing the opposition. Once he's gone, they just repeat the same things over again. I'm not trying to assert myself here as it might sound but this just becomes one big debacle and a merry-go-round.

I would be more inclined to have a 1-on-1 debate on this if anyone is interested. If you are, let me know.

Well, you aren't really debating any points.

Let us look at this objectively. Do not involve anything subjective. Quite simply, what is wrong with homosexuality?

 

[Ethan]

Sorry, my wording was not the best. Anyways, I trying to find resources that I may need to lend to my parents (particularly my Dad), so I was going on some websites when I cam across this:

http://www.bidstrup.com/pardata.htm#bible



So, that is pretty much it. Also, there was this long thesis essay that I need to find again (will edit in soon) that talks about how homosexuality in the Bible was not considering homosexuality is it is used today, thus the quotes do not transition well. Edit: Here it is: http://lesbianlife.about.com/gi/dyn...org/article/homosexuality-bible-gay-christian

So do atheists just use any old argument that they can come up with now?

Regarding David and Jonathan
http://www.tektonics.org/gk/gaydavid.html


It doesn't even bother to support that Ruth had any homosexual undertones. No scripture, no facts, no nothing.

Lastly I don't see how complementing the faith of a supposedly gay centurion equates to supporting homosexuality in the first place.

Well, you aren't really debating any points.

As I told if you read my post, I would only be repeating myself.

Let us look at this objectively. Do not involve anything subjective. Quite simply, what is wrong with homosexuality?

From a secular perspective, nothing.

 

[Zora]

So do atheists just use any old argument that they can come up with now?

My religious beliefs have nothing to do with the debate.

Regarding David and Jonathan
http://www.tektonics.org/gk/gaydavid.html

Nonetheless, it does not absolutely conclude that they were not gay, it merely leaves the possibility.

It doesn't even bother to support that Ruth had any homosexual undertones. No scripture, no facts, no nothing.

People could read "Ruth" and find the evidence themselves.

Lastly I don't see how complementing the faith of a supposedly gay centurion equates to supporting homosexuality in the first place.

My intention was to point out that the Old Testament was ambiguous on it's status of homosexuality. Of course, that point remains no matter what because it is indefinite what of the Old Testament is deemed still current or outdated since not all of the old laws apply (which ones are grouped in those catagories change with generations)

You also completely ignored my second link.

From a secular perspective, nothing.

This is a silly question. If nothing is wrong with it secularly, then why debate?

As I told if you read my post, I would only be repeating myself.

Touche. However, the attitudes against homosexuals will eventually need to change.