Homosexuality & Politics in the 21st Century

[THRILLHO]

i'm sure trans* discussion will be fine as long as everyone stays civilised. there's a lot of transphobia everywhere and it could dissolve into something pretty bad pretty quick, hopefully not though

 

[Grey Wind]

I don't have a problem with gay men per se, but I do have a problem with them embracing gay stereotypes. Maybe I'd be more tolerant if more gay men didn't buy into the effeminate lifestyle. I mean, you can be gay and not look and dress like a pretty boy. You don't have to like only female pop divas. You don't need to dance to their songs while wearing a speedo during a gay pride parade. And they are the reason why way too many straight men have the need to act like macho meatheads.

Why are you acting as if effeminate gay men are only effeminate because of the stereotype? It's not like they suddenly decided "oh, i'm gay, BEST START LISTENING TO MARIAH CAREY". Some men are just naturally more feminine than others, nobody forces themselves to act that way because of a stereotype. Stereotyping is wrong, but being a stereotype isn't.

What's wrong in taking pride in who you are?

Seriously, straight men who don't want to do macho things (like football or soccer) are set back from doing more sensitive things (like art or theater) because they are afraid of being called gay. They're also afraid to wear pink or shorts that aren't long. Some men won't even grow their hair long because of it, even though we all know that the only people who think men with long hair are gay are elderly far-right nuts like Mitt Romney (I used to support this guy until it was revealed that he thinks men with long hair are gay). What's worse is that some of the effeminate ones don't mind being called fags. (Hey, I'll call em that if they really don't mind.)

Ok, sorry, but this is absolutely ridiculous. What sort of warped logic is this? Gay men should stop being effeminate because it prevents straight men from being effeminate? Like, what. Maybe if you, y'know, didn't judge people for being too flamboyant then men in general wouldn't be afraid to be themselves? The reason some straight men are paranoid about acting more effeminately is because of the stigma surrounding homosexuality and/or flamboyancy. You treating effeminate gay men like they're some sort of blight on society is the reason men are scared of acting that way.

I mean, really.

The United States, Western Europe, Australia, and especially the UK are too tolerant of gay men (the latter thanks to Elton John), which is ironic since less than 50 years ago British people were the biggest enemies of homosexuality in the world. We should be more like Poland or Russia - they allow men to be gay, but they don't buy into that whole camp gay diva garbage. And their men are far from macho meatheads.

Again, why are you acting as if some gay men suddenly decide to be feminine because of the stereotype? Let someone act however they want, it doesn't have any effect on you whatsoever. Also, the whole "too tolerant" thing is probably one of the most baffling things I've heard in this thread.

 

[Sadib]

And they are the reason why way too many straight men have the need to act like macho meatheads. Seriously, straight men who don't want to do macho things (like football or soccer) are set back from doing more sensitive things (like art or theater) because they are afraid of being called gay. They're also afraid to wear pink or shorts that aren't long. Some men won't even grow their hair long because of it,

Why do I get the feeling that when you mention "straight men," you are actually talking about yourself? Were you bullied for not being "manly" enough and that's why you are scapegoating effeminate gays?

 

[lollygag]

You guys are right. Maybe I was being a little too close-minded. I kinda have a problem with that - I've been trying to not be prejudiced. When I get angry, though, I regress.

I'm kind of a sensitive guy who has plenty of interest in the arts and very little interest in sports, and I have been insecure about what people think of me. I don't want to be misjudged based on my interests.

What I know is true is that there is division in the gay community. There can be problems between gay men who conform to stereotypes and gay men who don't. Lesbians are the same way. In fact, I've heard people say they see it at pride parades.

It happens to all of us. I do identify as Republican, but I DO NOT like people like Ann Coulter, Mike Huckabee, Phyllis Schlafly, Mitt Romney. and the late Ronald Reagan because I think they are a little too conservative. In particular I'm critical of Schlafly for her unfavorable opinions on women. I used to lean towards Democrat years ago. I'll get into that more on another topic.

This is kind of where I'm going at: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StopBeingStereotypical

 

[THRILLHO]

I'm kind of a sensitive guy who has plenty of interest in the arts and very little interest in sports, and I have been insecure about what people think of me. I don't want to be misjudged based on my interests.

the best thing about the adult world is no one actually cares. i don't know if you study or not but going to university helped me to realise that age, gender, sexuality, interests, etc are the least of people's concerns. nobody gives a crap, just do what you want to

 

[Sadib]

You guys are right. Maybe I was being a little too close-minded. I kinda have a problem with that - I've been trying to not be prejudiced. When I get angry, though, I regress.

I'm kind of a sensitive guy who has plenty of interest in the arts and very little interest in sports, and I have been insecure about what people think of me. I don't want to be misjudged based on my interests.

Aha! I guessed correctly!

This is kind of where I'm going at: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StopBeingStereotypical

Here's the relevant part:

Many gay people hate Camp Gay for this reason. Indeed, every June (when most cities have their Gay Pride parades and festivals) there's bound to be a dozen Straight Gays complaining about the visibility of Drag Queens and Leathermen, forgetting that most homophobes are not picky in their hatred.

*On the flip tip: Camp Gays are forever telling "straight-acting" gay men to start being stereotypical. They refer to Straight Gay men as "closet cases" or "incapable of dealing with their internalized homophobia," and disdainfully regard them as "primarily concerned about appearing acceptable to their straight male friends." Some men are congenitally incapable of swishing properly, but does a Camp Gay realize this? No. Helpful hint: Maleness assumed throughout, because Lesbians Are Not Camp, except in old prison films.​

 

[Silver Soul]

So, Rick Perry disapproves against Boy Scouts lifting ban on gay members. According to him...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/02/rick-perry-boy-scouts-gay-policy_n_2607353.html

Speaking to reporters afterward, Perry said: "Hopefully the board will follow their historic position of keeping the Scouts strongly supportive of the values that make Scouting this very important and impactful organization."

"I think most people see absolutely no reason to change the position and neither do I," Perry said. He said his views on the subject haven't changed since writing his book, in which he noted that profits would be donated to the Boy Scouts of America Legal Defense since "they continue to be under attack from the forces of secularism."

Asked if he would feel different about the Scouts if the policy is changed, Perry wouldn't say. But he added: "to have popular culture impact 100 years of their standards is inappropriate."

He also disagreed that allowing members of all sexual preferences would make the Scouts more tolerant: "I think you get tolerance and diversity every day in Scouting."

So apparently according to him, human rights movement is popular culture. By that logic, that would make the Civil Rights Movement popular culture as well and bigotry an American value.

But Perry may not be the only one with that mindset because Rick Santorum thought so too.

When I saw that the Boy Scouts of America executive board is convening on Wednesday to discuss abandoning the organization’s founding moral principles that nurture boys into men, I was saddened, but not surprised,” he stated in a column Monday on the conservative site WorldNetDaily.

Santorum said he believes the Boy Scouts are reconsidering its stance due to pressure from popular culture and "the intolerant liberal mind."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/05/rick-santorum-boy-scouts_n_2622775.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

Yeah because Santorum sure knows about intolerance.

 

[Eterna]

Gay Marriage is now legal in the Uk.

 

[THRILLHO]

wow, 400-175. slaughtered. good for the UK, hopefully some of the bigger US states and Australia follow suit sometime soon

 

[7 tyranitars]

So, Rick Perry disapproves against Boy Scouts lifting ban on gay members. According to him...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/02/rick-perry-boy-scouts-gay-policy_n_2607353.html



So apparently according to him, human rights movement is popular culture. By that logic, that would make the Civil Rights Movement popular culture as well and bigotry an American value.

But Perry may not be the only one with that mindset because Rick Santorum thought so too.



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/05/rick-santorum-boy-scouts_n_2622775.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

Yeah because Santorum sure knows about intolerance.

I would have been more suprised if Santorum didn't say that.

wow, 400-175. slaughtered. good for the UK, hopefully some of the bigger US states and Australia follow suit sometime soon

And last saturday it also passed in France, big blow for antigay marriage advocates. (Especialy since a conservative goverment passed the law) And with Ilinois preparing a vote before valentines day in a democrat controled state congress I would be more suprised if it didn't pass.

Gay Marriage is now legal in the Uk.

No yet, it still needs to pass the house of the lords. (Even if that doesn't pass they will probably use the parliament act)

If everything goes well samesex marriage will be legal in the UK in 2014.

 

[WizardTrubbish]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/05/rick-santorum-boy-scouts_n_2622775.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

Yeah because Santorum sure knows about intolerance.

Those darn liberals are too accepting of gays! It's so intolerant! *shakes fist*

 

[Snorunt conservationist]

I'm glad that in a time of such a deep and wide-ranging economic crisis, we have spent parliamentary time and money on an almost non-entity of an issue to satisfy one man's ego.

Proud to be British.

A non-facetious question for gay people in the U.K out there. Does it bother you at all that a major reason (by no means the sole reason, but a major one) for this bill being introduced is that the Prime Minister is simply trying to enforce the dominance of his side of the party over the other? It's as much about him as the rights of gay people.

 

[THRILLHO]

does it really matter if it means equality? i don't think so, personally. besides, it's not like they're investing hundreds of millions of £££££ into gay research or anything, it's a peaceful social issue with - i imagine - minimal financial effect on a country (feel free to prove me wrong here but i think you will struggle to find any data, i couldn't find anything that supported either side) so i don't see why it's an issue economically

 

[Snorunt conservationist]

does it really matter if it means equality? i don't think so, personally. besides, it's not like they're investing hundreds of millions of £££££ into gay research or anything, it's a peaceful social issue with - i imagine - minimal financial effect on a country (feel free to prove me wrong here but i think you will struggle to find any data, i couldn't find anything that supported either side) so i don't see why it's an issue economically

MP's have salaries, they don't work for free. Drafting any bill costs money, polling costs money (and governments do carry out extensive polling). The money is as much symbolic as anything else. There are actual worthwhile things that Parliament could be pushing through. It just baffles me that people care so much about changing their status from being a civil partner to being married. It's just so insignificant.

In the past fifty years, homosexuality has gone from being derided and a criminal offence to gaining relative mainstream acceptance. Gays can now have their relationships acknowledged by the state (without the need for marriage), they occupy significant positions in politics, television and the media. The steps made have been so gargantuan that marriage seems almost irrelevant. I'm all for it, just don't see why time and money should be spent on pushing this through when there are so many more important issues in the country. This isn't a massive win for civil rights, it's an insignificant footmark, not to mention (in this instance, and, unsurprisingly, in the Obama instance) little more than a political plaything.

 

[7 tyranitars]

MP's have salaries, they don't work for free. Drafting any bill costs money, polling costs money (and governments do carry out extensive polling). The money is as much symbolic as anything else. There are actual worthwhile things that Parliament could be pushing through. It just baffles me that people care so much about changing their status from being a civil partner to being married. It's just so insignificant.
.

I think people who want to get married but can't would disagree with you. Thing is if they get this over with as soon as possible they can go on with "more important" stuff.

 

[Steampunk]

MP's have salaries, they don't work for free. Drafting any bill costs money, polling costs money (and governments do carry out extensive polling). The money is as much symbolic as anything else. There are actual worthwhile things that Parliament could be pushing through. It just baffles me that people care so much about changing their status from being a civil partner to being married. It's just so insignificant.

In the past fifty years, homosexuality has gone from being derided and a criminal offence to gaining relative mainstream acceptance. Gays can now have their relationships acknowledged by the state (without the need for marriage), they occupy significant positions in politics, television and the media. The steps made have been so gargantuan that marriage seems almost irrelevant. I'm all for it, just don't see why time and money should be spent on pushing this through when there are so many more important issues in the country. This isn't a massive win for civil rights, it's an insignificant footmark, not to mention (in this instance, and, unsurprisingly, in the Obama instance) little more than a political plaything.

And not to mention the fact that people in general are disregarding marrage in general anyways. Gays, will still live together and do whatever even if they cant get married, same is true with straights, but they have the option.

 

[Snorunt conservationist]

I think people who want to get married but can't would disagree with you.

They're welcome to, doesn't make their cause any less insignificant.

Thing is if they get this over with as soon as possible they can go on with "more important" stuff.

Or they could have just gotten on with the important stuff.

 

[Poetry]

MP's have salaries, they don't work for free. Drafting any bill costs money, polling costs money (and governments do carry out extensive polling). The money is as much symbolic as anything else. There are actual worthwhile things that Parliament could be pushing through. It just baffles me that people care so much about changing their status from being a civil partner to being married. It's just so insignificant.

I agree with this to an extent. The notion of marriage may be a negligible step up from a civil partnership but it's still a step closer to gays being treated equally with the rest of the population. Frankly, I don't care all that much that I have the option to marry rather than just get a civil partnership, but if it means that I'm one step closer to being allowed the same access to public services such as marriage like everyone else in this democracy, then it's worth at least something, right?

On the other hand, I do feel that there are some more pressing issues the government could be focusing on instead of gay marriage. Homophobia is still ever-present in the UK and if the Tories are really aiming to eradicate it from this country (which I somewhat doubt) then this isn't really the most efficient way of going about it. If we're not talking homosexuality then there are still a huge number of issues I think the government should be resolving at this present time. But oh well. I remain pessimistic.

 

[BJPalmer85]

:/ Guys, unless I'm seriously missing something, a guy wanting to change his last name to his wife's has nothing to do with homosexuality and politics, so either make a new thread or take it to the tangent thread.

Also, please post links to news articles when referring to events so as to provide a little more background information. Thanks.

~Psychic

It actually has some validity towards this topic as it can relate to gay men wanting to change their last names or gay women wanting to change their last name.

As requested here is a link to the article

No yet, it still needs to pass the house of the lords. (Even if that doesn't pass they will probably use the parliament act)

If everything goes well samesex marriage will be legal in the UK in 2014.

WOW! I am surprised it is not legal. To me the UK has always been ahead of the curve. Good for our friends across the pond.

I wish my state would make it legal...wont happen anytime soon

B

 

[7 tyranitars]

They're welcome to, doesn't make their cause any less insignificant.



Or they could have just gotten on with the important stuff.

That won't work, because there are always going to be more important stuff, because not everyone experiences an issue equally important. It is better to just deal with rather then keep it dragging on forever. A government does more then just controll the money, it is involved into social issues aswell.