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Homosexuality & Politics in the 21st Century

BigLutz

Banned
Children should be taught about sex, gender identity and sexuality younger than 16/17 - a good way to tackle bigotry is to tackle ignorance.

Dunno about that Middle School and high school students are utterly cruel they will riddicule anyone different from being in a wheel chair to being overweight. If there is something outside the norm with a person they will attack it. No matter what a teacher says
 

Maedar

Banned
So you support teaching Abstinence only education? Because teaching how to have safe sex to 16 and 17 year olds, kind of admits they are having sex.

Don't try a logic bomb with me. That only works with robots, and only in movies.

I support sex education. Know what only teaching abstinence leads to? This:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DoNotDoThisCoolThing

It only encourages students to be more sexually promiscuous. Wonder why Texas has more teen pregnancies than any other? Guess.
 

BigLutz

Banned
Don't try a logic bomb with me. That only works with robots, and only in movies.

And yet you have no reply so I guess it works here

I support sex education. Know what only teaching abstinence leads to? This:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DoNotDoThisCoolThing

It only encourages students to be more sexually promiscuous. Wonder why Texas has more teen pregnancies than any other? Guess.

So again by your logic you support statutory rape like Phil
 

Maedar

Banned
So again by your logic you support statutory rape like Phil

How in the world do you assume that I support statutory rape by supporting sex education? That makes no sense.
 

BigLutz

Banned
How in the world do you assume that I support statutory rape by supporting sex education? That makes no sense.

Abstinence Only education is designed to keep teens from having sex until they are married

Sex Education: Has the assumption the teens are already having sex and to provide them with the birth control knowledge to have safe sex.

If you support Abstinence only for High Schoolers then why are you in support of Sex Education?

Getting back on topic the new California law went into effect today allowing students from K-12 to choose to choose the sport, bathroom, and locker room that goes with their sexual identity and not their gender.

http://www.ibtimes.com/california-t...-repeal-gender-identity-bathroom-bill-1465176

Personally I think this causes way too many problems, I am all for Transgendered people, but with sports I believe it would give a disproportionate advantage or disadvanged to the transgendered person playing on a different gendered team, such as a boy having taller height or upper body strength playing girls basketball or volleyball, or a girl getting destroyed out on the football field. Furthermore for younger children, we teach them to be extra sensitive about their private areas, yet allowing a boy into the girl's bathroom could be very traumatizing and confusing to a young girl and vice versa. This law seems like a knee jerk reaction that does not take the feelings of other children into consideration.
 

Maedar

Banned
Abstinence Only education is designed to keep teens from having sex until they are married

Guaranteed to fail, so long as the media is the way it is.

Lutz, speaking as a guy who was beaten up in the gym locker room so often - because the other students knew that was the only place a teacher was not allowed to supervise - he tried every legal avenue he could think of to be excused from gym class (which I think only exists to make non-athletic kids feel miserable), I think this is a step in the right direction.

Making gym class optional and letting a student focus solely on academics would be even better.
 

BigLutz

Banned
Guaranteed to fail, so long as the media is the way it is.

Irrelevant to what we are talking about.

Lutz, speaking as a guy who was beaten up in the gym locker room so often - because the other students knew that was the only place a teacher was not allowed to supervise - he tried every legal avenue he could think of to be excused from gym class (which I think only exists to make non-athletic kids feel miserable), I think this is a step in the right direction.

Making gym class optional and letting a student focus solely on academics would be even better.

"California’s transgender law, which doesn’t take effect until January, will require schools to allow students to participate in school programs and activities consistent with their gender identity and “irrespective of the gender listed on the pupil’s records.” The law extends to sex-segregated activities, such as team sports, as well as bathroom and locker facilities."

So far I have seen nothing about this law letting kids opt out of Gym.
 

Maedar

Banned
Irrelevant to what we are talking about.

I beg to differ. Classes that teach abstinence actually demonize sex and make people think it's dirty. They don't teach safe sex; they don't mention condoms at all, except to mention how often they fail.

Trust me, Lutz, those classes give kids a distorted view of sex and only serve to warp their perception of it.

And btw, any time you reply by saying "irrelevant" it means "I have no answer so I will not even attempt to answer." Trust me, I've learned that by now.

And until I hear an apology for how you called me a bigot, I will no longer discuss this with you.
 

BigLutz

Banned
I beg to differ. Classes that teach abstinence actually demonize sex and make people think it's dirty. They don't teach safe sex; they don't mention condoms at all, except to mention how often they fail.

Trust me, Lutz, those classes give kids a distorted view of sex and only serve to warp their perception of it.

And btw, any time you reply by saying "irrelevant" it means "I have no answer so I will not even attempt to answer." Trust me, I've learned that by now.

No it truly is irrelevent you are debating the usefullness of Abstinence when the discussion was how Sex Education encourages safe sex among minors.

And until I hear an apology for how you called me a bigot, I will no longer discuss this with you.

Umm you, called yourself a bigot... twice.
 

thetamale

Well-Known Member
Dunno about that Middle School and high school students are utterly cruel they will riddicule anyone different from being in a wheel chair to being overweight. If there is something outside the norm with a person they will attack it. No matter what a teacher says

That's the point, eliminate the idea that there's one normal and everything else is different. If it's taught to young children then that'll help with their development, eventually outdated views die off, it's not something that happens overnight but if you compare our attitudes towards gender and race we've come a way.
 

BigLutz

Banned
That's the point, eliminate the idea that there's one normal and everything else is different. If it's taught to young children then that'll help with their development, eventually outdated views die off, it's not something that happens overnight but if you compare our attitudes towards gender and race we've come a way.

But the thing is you are going against hormones here, do you think we do not already teach that kids in wheel chairs or normal? Or kids that are overweight? or those that have glasses? At the end of the day kids are going to gang up against those they perceive as different and weak, its pretty much an animalistic desire to pick off the weak.
 

thetamale

Well-Known Member
But the thing is you are going against hormones here, do you think we do not already teach that kids in wheel chairs or normal? Or kids that are overweight? or those that have glasses? At the end of the day kids are going to gang up against those they perceive as different and weak, its pretty much an animalistic desire to pick off the weak.

While you can't fight personalities, the see you next tuesday phase eventually wears off at least most of the time and if a better educated wave of adults grows up, attitudes may start to move forward as less children see prejudice in their home lives. Children can be cruel but they can also grow up and if the current system doesn't work, something needs to change.
 

Shouting at the Morning Sun

An Overwhelming Surplus of Diggity
But the thing is you are going against hormones here, do you think we do not already teach that kids in wheel chairs or normal? Or kids that are overweight? or those that have glasses? At the end of the day kids are going to gang up against those they perceive as different and weak, its pretty much an animalistic desire to pick off the weak.

I would posit that the times I have encountered younger people making fun of homosexuals, it's because they were raised in an environment that rewarded that sort of behavior. It's not so much an animalistic desire as it is a desire to fit in with whatever societal teachings you've learned as your identity was and still is forming.

As far as being bullied about glasses, wheelchairs, and being overweight is concerned.. I believe the only people who would even bother bullying someone about those facets are literally a walking 80s high school movie, and that this point has literally nothing to do with the topic of this thread.

You can't get homosexual contacts to hide your "homosexual glasses", go work out at a gym to get rid of "excess homosexuality", or get robot legs to hide your "homosexual wheelchair".
 

BigLutz

Banned
While you can't fight personalities, the see you next tuesday phase eventually wears off at least most of the time and if a better educated wave of adults grows up, attitudes may start to move forward as less children see prejudice in their home lives. Children can be cruel but they can also grow up and if the current system doesn't work, something needs to change.

Is there anything that can change other than keeping children from interacting with each other unsupervised?

TRUE DOOM MURDERHEAD said:
I would posit that the times I have encountered younger people making fun of homosexuals, it's because they were raised in an environment that rewarded that sort of behavior. It's not so much an animalistic desire as it is a desire to fit in with whatever societal teachings you've learned as your identity was and still is forming.

As far as being bullied about glasses, wheelchairs, and being overweight is concerned.. I believe the only people who would even bother bullying someone about those facets are literally a walking 80s high school movie, and that this point has literally nothing to do with the topic of this thread.

You can't get homosexual contacts to hide your "homosexual glasses", go work out at a gym to get rid of "excess homosexuality", or get robot legs to hide your "homosexual wheelchair".

So you suggest people will bully over different characteristics ( Being a walking 80s movie or not ), but not over say Homosexuality? Something that is a pretty big differing characteristic?
 

Shouting at the Morning Sun

An Overwhelming Surplus of Diggity
So you suggest people will bully over different characteristics ( Being a walking 80s movie or not ), but not over say Homosexuality? Something that is a pretty big differing characteristic?

I will say that people will bully over any characteristic as long as the environment they're raised in rewards the behavior. It's only a "big" differing characteristic if the environment you've grown in says as such.
 

thetamale

Well-Known Member
Is there anything that can change other than keeping children from interacting with each other unsupervised?

Yes, you can educate. Not every child will bully, not every child will have underage sex etc it's not like it's a strictly hormonal imperative that has to happen otherwise we die.

And ultimately if more people grow up with a proper education that different-to-you is not a negative thing, the next generation after that will be raised with better values at home.

Of course it's not a strict, black and white issue. But young children need to be educated, if you can teach them about say slavery and why we shouldn't judge people based on the colour of their skin you can teach them about sexuality and gender identity.
 

BigLutz

Banned
Yes, you can educate. Not every child will bully, not every child will have underage sex etc it's not like it's a strictly hormonal imperative that has to happen otherwise we die.

And ultimately if more people grow up with a proper education that different-to-you is not a negative thing, the next generation after that will be raised with better values at home.

Of course it's not a strict, black and white issue. But young children need to be educated, if you can teach them about say slavery and why we shouldn't judge people based on the colour of their skin you can teach them about sexuality and gender identity.

Except again we do that now and it hasn't changed a thing, people will still get picked on at school for their color, disabilities, or sexuality. I mean what makes you think education about gayness is going to change anything when it hasn't for racism or disabilities?

TRUE DOOM MURDERHEAD said:
I will say that people will bully over any characteristic as long as the environment they're raised in rewards the behavior. It's only a "big" differing characteristic if the environment you've grown in says as such.

That is the problem when you have kids get together in school it fosters a Alpha Male/Female environment, unless you have a overhanging presence on the kids every moment of the day, you are going to have kids gang up and bully the weaker students.
 

Shouting at the Morning Sun

An Overwhelming Surplus of Diggity
That is the problem when you have kids get together in school it fosters a Alpha Male/Female environment, unless you have a overhanging presence on the kids every moment of the day, you are going to have kids gang up and bully the weaker students.

So what is your point? Are you saying that being homosexual is a weakness? Because otherwise this has nothing to do with the conversation at hand.
 

thetamale

Well-Known Member
Except again we do that now and it hasn't changed a thing, people will still get picked on at school for their color, disabilities, or sexuality. I mean what makes you think education about gayness is going to change anything when it hasn't for racism or disabilities?

You're from Texas, of course you'd see that. But the US south is one of those places where it'll take the longest for far right attitudes to die out. Also I'm generalising but in places like Texas, children are more likely to be growing up in communities where intolerance and bigotry are commonplace and seen as the norm and 'correct'.

In more modern thinking communities I do believe education can be a powerful tool.
 
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