Homosexuality & Politics in the 21st Century

[Master_Tyrell]

How can we tell if depression and suicide are intrinsic to the sexual identity and not just a consequence of the tension between the identity and existing social norms? Kind of like, some religious homosexuals feel depressed because they feel homosexuality is against their religion, but that's a result of their religion, not homosexuality intrinsically.

And even if some people get depressed over these things, why should you classify everyone with a different kind of brain as GID? If there are no negative symptoms, why call it a disease?

This, really. The whole point of "normalizing" it is so people don't feel they are abnormal, that they are freaks, etc. It would certainly take away from their depression if they feel better about themselves even before doing the transition. Really, as a gay guy, and former Pentecostal, I was usually very depressed because of how society made me think of myself. It really helped seeing that there was no problem with being gay, and I'm sure it would really help trans people if they can see there's no problem with being trans.

 

[Thepowaofhax]

How can we tell if depression and suicide are intrinsic to the sexual identity and not just a consequence of the tension between the identity and existing social norms? Kind of like, some religious homosexuals feel depressed because they feel homosexuality is against their religion, but that's a result of their religion, not homosexuality intrinsically.

And even if some people get depressed over these things, why should you classify everyone with a different kind of brain as GID? If there are no negative symptoms, why call it a disease?

It's not intrinsic to the sexual identity and more towards how they view themselves. Generally, a Transgendered person would like to look more like their preferred gender. Both of these can be caused without proper treatment, which can stem from societal norms.

Also, it is not because their brain is different from another person on a basis of slight differences; a person with GID typically will have a brain that is structurally more like their preferred gender. I.E A MtF would have a more feminine structure, such as less gray matter and larger hippocampuses. And again, no proper treatment leads to negative symptoms like depression, suicide and genital mutilation.

And I'm also surprised no one noticed that I said that my arguments have been devil's advocacy. Realistically, HB2 wouldn't easy to enforce to begin with, it's been effecting NC's economy negatively and other negatives. The most they could do is put a guard by the bathrooms asking for IDs which is unnecessary.

 

[Aegiscalibur]

It's not intrinsic to the sexual identity and more towards how they view themselves. Generally, a Transgendered person would like to look more like their preferred gender. Both of these can be caused without proper treatment, which can stem from societal norms.

And again, no proper treatment leads to negative symptoms like depression, suicide and genital mutilation.

Many transgendered people would like to look or act more like their preferred gender, sure, but that is only because they have taken in social norms and built an impression of what their preferred gender should look or act like. So if it's caused by social norms or subjective preference, telling transgendered people "You have a mental illness because your brain is different" easily gives them the false impression that it's intrinsic. That's only going to pointlessly confuse them.

Of course there's no problem with giving hormone therapy etc. if they really want it and have actual problems like depression. But that doesn't mean you should explain the problem in a misleading way or give those treatments to everyone with a different brain.

Also, it is not because their brain is different from another person on a basis of slight differences; a person with GID typically will have a brain that is structurally more like their preferred gender. I.E A MtF would have a more feminine structure, such as less gray matter and larger hippocampuses.

But that's only a collection of empirical facts. Where are your "normal" and "abnormal"? Can you provide us with an empirical method to distinguish between normal natural phenomena and abnormal natural phenomena? If you equate abnormality with rarity or being contrary to social norms or subjective preference, then that's only your normative postulate.

 

[Remix2]

Wow, our situation with lgbt rights is so bad that the uk is issuing warning for lgbt from there country to be cautious when travel to certain states.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/new...gbt-people-headed-to-us/ar-BBs4iKE?li=BBnbfcL

 

[lemoncatpower]

There is literally no evidence of this. If anything, the opposite would be true: normalising GID would offer more opportunities for trans people to get what they deserve due to a more accepting world. Not 'normalising' it just leads to stigma, and that does nothing but damage the movement.

Kind of an off-tangent, but am I the only one who thinks GID is a dumb name? For the majority of cases, yeah, it's fine. But there's people who still have dysphoria who are gender fluid, gender queer, etc. they don't neccesarily match up with it.

ugh yes I don't think GID is an accurate term whatsoever. It's not a disorder, people are just born the way they are and they can act however they want. It's no disorder, they develop disorders from being outcasts, like you said. And I am not sure how someone could come up with the absurd idea that normalizing something would result in a lack of treatment... well I guess there would be a lack of treatment, because we wouldn't need it. Trans people aren't automatically born with disorders at all, the only thing they would need are hormones if they wanted to make the transition, which isn't as much treatment as it is just a procedure.

It is so simple to understand that if you accept a trans person all their lives they'll be as healthy as can be, unless yknow, healthy means that you act stereotypical of the sex you were born with.
It's the thinking of people like powahoax that starts this whole dumb loop of negativity.

 

[Remix2]

And now I precent everyone to another edition of Louie gohmert being a idiot.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/loui...sgender-bathrooms_us_57196420e4b0d0042da8c55c

 

[Mordent99]

And now I precent everyone to another edition of Louie gohmert being a idiot.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/loui...sgender-bathrooms_us_57196420e4b0d0042da8c55c

So far, I've seen members of the Tea Party say they'll boycott PayPal and refuse to use $20 bills. (Going to be funny seeing them try to pay for anything.)

And that was just this week. In the past, fundamentalists have called for boycotts over some of the most successful and beloved products and companies over LGBT issues, like Disney, Microsoft, Starbucks, Cheerios Oreo Cookies... It was kind of hard to demonize any of them, I'll tell you that.

Oh, and there's this:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-to-be-hurting-pat-mccrorys-political-future/

 

[U.N. Owen]

Unless you're the Vatican City, you really shouldn't be mixing religion with politics.

 

[bobjr]

Pat McCory won his election on a platform of being moderate and working together, which he immediately went against the second he was elected. As long as there's a decent opponent he's not getting reelected.

 

[Ascended Dialga]

In response to the anti-LGBT laws passed in North Carolina and Mississippi, British LGBT tourists have been warned about visiting those states. Shoutout to Britain for doing the right thing!

http://gawker.com/british-lgbt-tourists-warned-about-visiting-north-carol-1772197064

 

[Mordent99]

In response to the anti-LGBT laws passed in North Carolina and Mississippi, British LGBT tourists have been warned about visiting those states. Shoutout to Britain for doing the right thing!

http://gawker.com/british-lgbt-tourists-warned-about-visiting-north-carol-1772197064

I never thought I'd see the day when a government issued a travel warning pertaining to our country...

 

[Jtg56108]

ugh yes I don't think GID is an accurate term whatsoever. It's not a disorder, people are just born the way they are and they can act however they want. It's no disorder, they develop disorders from being outcasts, like you said. And I am not sure how someone could come up with the absurd idea that normalizing something would result in a lack of treatment... well I guess there would be a lack of treatment, because we wouldn't need it. Trans people aren't automatically born with disorders at all, the only thing they would need are hormones if they wanted to make the transition, which isn't as much treatment as it is just a procedure.

It is so simple to understand that if you accept a trans person all their lives they'll be as healthy as can be, unless yknow, healthy means that you act stereotypical of the sex you were born with.
It's the thinking of people like powahoax that starts this whole dumb loop of negativity.

Sorry but you've gotten this kind of mixed up. GID( I hate to use this term since it's outdated and the term Gender Dysphoria is generally better at describing trans issues than GID) is more about the Dysphoria caused by the discrepancies when a trans person's body doesn't match that of their brain's gender, or Social Dysphoria caused by not fitting in with their same sexed peers in a variety of ways. This is the mental disorder. There is no reason to remove Gender Dysphoria from the DSM.

On your other note, acceptance is often not enough as Dysphoria is too strong to just accept. This is why trans suicide rates are still high (they do lower some, but their still higher than the average) after SRS (this is also why I don't consider older transitioners ie. Caitlyn Jenner truly trans)

Overall, you've got the right sentiment but you're misinformed.

 

[Auraninja]

And now I precent everyone to another edition of Louie gohmert being a idiot.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/loui...sgender-bathrooms_us_57196420e4b0d0042da8c55c

I voted against him, but Democrats in Texas stick out like sore thumbs.

East Texas, while not the worst part of Texas, has some very bad homophobia.

For example, a church my mom used to go to tried to hire a homophobic preacher. It wasn't a specific preacher they were trying to hire; homophobia was a requirement. They interviewed a preacher earlier, who turned out to be a "we're all sinners" type of preacher, so he didn't get the job. The crazy coincidence about it was when I heard about the hiring requirement, I thought of that scenario as a joke.

It wasn't like west Texas, where some students at my high school got a good grade in Government class by representing an anti-gay presentation. It was called the Anti Rainbow Administration.

I mention these things to give people insight on how bad Texas can get. I haven't mentioned the very worst, but from my own experiences.

Edit: I should probably also mentioned that there used to be a sign near Galveston that said, "(N-word) you better not have the sun set on you", or something like that. It was removed somewhere I believe in the late 80's early 90's.

Although some of the major cities in Texas has a huge liberal population. Dallas, Austin and Houston are perhaps the best examples. I live in a suburban area in a smaller city (hint, Louie Gohmert resides as house member).

But once again, I have been in the state long enough to know what the hell is wrong with my state (and times when it's right).

 

[The Admiral]

So far, I've seen members of the Tea Party say they'll boycott PayPal and refuse to use $20 bills. (Going to be funny seeing them try to pay for anything.)

And that was just this week. In the past, fundamentalists have called for boycotts over some of the most successful and beloved products and companies over LGBT issues, like Disney, Microsoft, Starbucks, Cheerios Oreo Cookies... It was kind of hard to demonize any of them, I'll tell you that.

Oh, and there's this:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-to-be-hurting-pat-mccrorys-political-future/

The Tea Party still exists?

Also, I heard that Governor McCrory either has set up, or is trying to set up, phone lines where you can report bathroom offenders? Like, this is reaching some extremely paranoid levels on the part of a party whose membership includes many people who said that they would willingly become sex offenders if they had known what the word "transgender" was (they sure as hell don't know what the concept is).

So: who wants to call in and report McCrory?

 

[lemoncatpower]

Sorry but you've gotten this kind of mixed up. GID( I hate to use this term since it's outdated and the term Gender Dysphoria is generally better at describing trans issues than GID) is more about the Dysphoria caused by the discrepancies when a trans person's body doesn't match that of their brain's gender, or Social Dysphoria caused by not fitting in with their same sexed peers in a variety of ways. This is the mental disorder. There is no reason to remove Gender Dysphoria from the DSM.

On your other note, acceptance is often not enough as Dysphoria is too strong to just accept. This is why trans suicide rates are still high (they do lower some, but their still higher than the average) after SRS (this is also why I don't consider older transitioners ie. Caitlyn Jenner truly trans)

Overall, you've got the right sentiment but you're misinformed.

Overall, you're wrong and you've got the wrong feelings.

A bunch of white old men have decided this is a disorder, that doesn't make it a disorder...
I don't consider it, as many HEALTHY TRANS people don't, a disorder because I don't think people have the "wrong" brains for their 'gender'. I think they just have brains and act how they act, people just suck and treat them differently and tell them that theyre messed up so they develop problems, AS ANYONE WOULD. Even having GID in the DSM is as terrible as ever having homosexuality in it, it harms just by being in it. Even though there are people who claim it would hurt availability for help to people who actually need it if it was removed from the DSM. Honestly once people stop being dumb, and people like you stop trying to scientifically prove discrimination, it should only be removed then. People will always have problems when they're told they're messed up by you. Also GID and Gender Dysphoria are basically the same thing, one is just a title in the DSM with a list of conditions that must be met while the other describes a relationship one has with their body, yet they describe the same thing.

You sound very pessimistic unfortunately.

Good thing you don't decide what is truly trans, good thing the people who are actually going through the process get to decide.

https://psmag.com/why-gender-dysphoria-should-no-longer-be-considered-a-medical-disorder-f3f9211a707a#.mekc5yxan
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/04/gender-dysphoria-dsm-5_n_3385287.html
http://www.wpath.org/uploaded_files/140/files/WPATH%20Reaction%20to%20the%20proposed%20DSM%20-%20Final.pdf

Overall, you should read some articles, meet some people, join a community and get involved.

 

[bobjr]

The Tea Party still exists?

Yep, and they were the cause of the almost shutdown late last year. Most of them should lose out in the next election, but the crazier states will keep theirs for some time as long as they got imaginary boogeymen to pass the blame to.

 

[Jtg56108]

Overall, you're wrong and you've got the wrong feelings.

A bunch of white old men have decided this is a disorder, that doesn't make it a disorder...
I don't consider it, as many HEALTHY TRANS people don't, a disorder because I don't think people have the "wrong" brains for their 'gender'. I think they just have brains and act how they act, people just suck and treat them differently and tell them that theyre messed up so they develop problems, AS ANYONE WOULD. Even having GID in the DSM is as terrible as ever having homosexuality in it, it harms just by being in it. Even though there are people who claim it would hurt availability for help to people who actually need it if it was removed from the DSM. Honestly once people stop being dumb, and people like you stop trying to scientifically prove discrimination, it should only be removed then. People will always have problems when they're told they're messed up by you. Also GID and Gender Dysphoria are basically the same thing, one is just a title in the DSM with a list of conditions that must be met while the other describes a relationship one has with their body, yet they describe the same thing.

You sound very pessimistic unfortunately.

Good thing you don't decide what is truly trans, good thing the people who are actually going through the process get to decide.

https://psmag.com/why-gender-dysphoria-should-no-longer-be-considered-a-medical-disorder-f3f9211a707a#.mekc5yxan
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/04/gender-dysphoria-dsm-5_n_3385287.html
http://www.wpath.org/uploaded_files/140/files/WPATH%20Reaction%20to%20the%20proposed%20DSM%20-%20Final.pdf

Overall, you should read some articles, meet some people, join a community and get involved.

I'm Trans(in the closet but still,)

I think I might have gotten on the wrong foot here. Treatment for trans people is transitioning. I don't want to come of anti-trans or anything of the sort. Gender Dysphoria is a mental disorder because it actually causes discomfort and symptoms of depression and anxiety. This is something that doesn't happen in the case of homosexuality. If something doesn't put harm onto the self or others there isn't any reason for it to be classified as a mental illness. There is a reason for gender Dysphoria to be in the DSM. It causes internal discomfort and pain. I know from personal experience.

 

[lemoncatpower]

I'm Trans(in the closet but still,)

I think I might have gotten on the wrong foot here. Treatment for trans people is transitioning. I don't want to come of anti-trans or anything of the sort. Gender Dysphoria is a mental disorder because it actually causes discomfort and symptoms of depression and anxiety. This is something that doesn't happen in the case of homosexuality. If something doesn't put harm onto the self or others there isn't any reason for it to be classified as a mental illness. There is a reason for gender Dysphoria to be in the DSM. It causes internal discomfort and pain. I know from personal experience.

I apologize as I am very passionate on the subject to the point I go off.

but I don't believe your anxiety/depression actually comes from being trans itself. I think it comes from the way you feel afraid to express yourself to society and those close to you. Blaming being trans is not right as it is society to blame. Honestly, society is very messed up. I don't think you have those feelings because of the way you were born. If you have had depression or anxiety, or chemical imbalances so to say, since you were born, they were somehow passed onto you. People also argue that they develop early in childhood if your parents also exhibit signs of depression and anxiety instead of chemical imbalances being passed on. Either way, depression and anxiety are separate from being trans, and anyone who has told you that they go hand in hand has a large misunderstanding on the subject, or of themselves. Also I don't want you to think you have depression/anxiety from being trans, as that will most likely stop you from being happy with who you are.

I would highly suggest talking to someone who has had a positive experience with coming out of the closet and can help guide you. It is a very good idea to have a positive role model in your life who can help you be yourself as it is important to know that being trans does not mean you are doomed to a life of depression and anxiety. Self-acceptance is something that everyone needs and you deserve.

 

[Mordent99]

The Tea Party still exists?

Whether it ever truly counted as an independent organization at all is debatable.

Also, I heard that Governor McCrory either has set up, or is trying to set up, phone lines where you can report bathroom offenders? Like, this is reaching some extremely paranoid levels on the part of a party whose membership includes many people who said that they would willingly become sex offenders if they had known what the word "transgender" was (they sure as hell don't know what the concept is).

Nah, it's just that McCrory thinks, like most Republicans, that apologizing, admitting he was wrong, or God forbid, admitting defeat is a Fate Worse than Death, and is willing to look like a complete *** doing the most absurd things to prove his point, no matter how much taxpayer money he has to waste.

So: who wants to call in and report McCrory?

You can bet that if this hotline is set up, everyone will.

 

[Jtg56108]

I apologize as I am very passionate on the subject to the point I go off.

but I don't believe your anxiety/depression actually comes from being trans itself. I think it comes from the way you feel afraid to express yourself to society and those close to you. Blaming being trans is not right as it is society to blame. Honestly, society is very messed up. I don't think you have those feelings because of the way you were born. If you have had depression or anxiety, or chemical imbalances so to say, since you were born, they were somehow passed onto you. People also argue that they develop early in childhood if your parents also exhibit signs of depression and anxiety instead of chemical imbalances being passed on. Either way, depression and anxiety are separate from being trans, and anyone who has told you that they go hand in hand has a large misunderstanding on the subject, or of themselves. Also I don't want you to think you have depression/anxiety from being trans, as that will most likely stop you from being happy with who you are.

I would highly suggest talking to someone who has had a positive experience with coming out of the closet and can help guide you. It is a very good idea to have a positive role model in your life who can help you be yourself as it is important to know that being trans does not mean you are doomed to a life of depression and anxiety. Self-acceptance is something that everyone needs and you deserve.

Sorry, I might have not explained it right, most depression/anxiety comes from Bodily Dysphoria Ie. not having the body or genitals of the opposite sex and not fealing right with your body/genitals. You feel a disconnect with yourself and your own body. You look in the mirror don't see yourself. This causes a lot of the depression/anxiety. They're definitely connected.

Also I'm planning on coming out soon. You don't need to worry or anything.