Homosexuality & Politics in the 21st Century

[Sadib]

If it helps, I also assume that a person if right-handed unless proven left-handed.

 

[CSolarstorm]

Well, it really depends on what you think of assuming things about people. Sure, if you feel the need to label someone with a default sexuality before you know, there's a bigger chance heterosexuality would be the more accurate label. But why would you even need to do that? Especially when you can leave the matter alone until you know for certain, or even y'know, ask. It's not a lot more effort; in some ways it's less because you don't have to put forth the effort of assuming or dealing with whatever awkwardness that results from the 1 in 10 chance your assumption is wrong. It doesn't necessarily reflect on your ideas about homosexuality. It would be unecessary to assume

- what nationality someone is even if you know the statistics
- what disability that someone in a wheelchair has.
- the genders of the victim and abuser in a domestic abuse case (only 1 in 10 is a male victim)

You don't actually need pre-judgments about these things. So why assume what sexuality someone has or even what hand they use?

 

[7 tyranitars]

Well, it really depends on what you think of assuming things about people. Sure, if you feel the need to label someone with a default sexuality before you know, there's a bigger chance heterosexuality would be the more accurate label. But why would you even need to do that? Especially when you can leave the matter alone until you know for certain, or even y'know, ask. It's not a lot more effort; in some ways it's less because you don't have to put forth the effort of assuming or dealing with whatever awkwardness that results from the 1 in 10 chance your assumption is wrong. It doesn't necessarily reflect on your ideas about homosexuality. It would be unecessary to assume

- what nationality someone is even if you know the statistics
- what disability that someone in a wheelchair has.
- the genders of the victim and abuser in a domestic abuse case (only 1 in 10 is a male victim)

You don't actually need pre-judgments about these things. So why assume what sexuality someone has or even what hand they use?

This is a tough one.. but people will always be pre-judged even if they try not to be. I think it has to do with the ammound of options or even a social-cultural reason. When I see people in a wheelchair I have no idea why they could be in a wheelchair, they could have broken their legs they can have something pernament, there are quiet a few options out there. The same with nationalities. (except how somehow all asians seem to be Chinese for most people as that is apparently the only country they know of *Cough* About the domestic violence thing it is quiet differend. Because almost nobody expect a man to be the victem of it, or that they even tell people because it is still considered a shame for us men to be beaten by a woman. Besides that there also seems to be the case that when it comes to domestic violence or any other kind of violence the woman will be believed in favor of the men and he will be a social paria but if a man makes such a claim it will be waved away or laughed at.

For example a few weeks ago there was in a news paper how a 13 year old girl got stabbed to near death by a 14 year old boy in my city, everyone believed her immediately including myself and that the boy should be locked up for 10's of years. A week ago the same newspaper said the girl lied to get the boy into trouble. I wonder if we would have given the same reaction if the girl "stabbed" the boy. Anyway I guese I got a bit sidetracked.

So I think some things will more easily be prejudged then others simply because not everything is the same.

 

[Kaiserin]

That's true, but is it really right to just shrug and go "oh well, people gonna judge, haters gonna hate, nothing anyone can do about it" when it's really not that hard to just reserve judgment on strangers when you only really have one side of the story? This applies to sexuality as well as anything else you may (or may not) be able to glean from just looking at someone on the street.

Maybe it's human nature to judge, but humans have suppressed other natural instincts that probably took much longer to tuck away in the subconscious realm, you know? Why settle for "it can't be helped" when people could just start nipping things like that in the bud right now that cause those kinds of internalized homophobia and prejudice?

 

[Malanu]

*SNIP*You don't actually need pre-judgments about these things. So why assume what sexuality someone has or even what hand they use?

Ever since my time living in California (ie when I moved out of the parents and the squadbay)I've met my fair share of Gay/Bi/Trans. What I never understood is why back then they all tended to introduce themselves, "Hi. I'm Bob. I'm Gay." Then look at me waiting. After the 3rd or 4th time that happened I started responding, "Hi. I'm Malanu. I have sex with sheep! Now that we've tried to shock each other, Want a beer?" It's funny how word got around that I didn't care!

 

[Zevn]

Sometimes a sheep just needs help getting pushed through the fence, right Malanu?

 

[Malanu]

I never herd that one before.

 

[CSolarstorm]

Ever since my time living in California (ie when I moved out of the parents and the squadbay)I've met my fair share of Gay/Bi/Trans. What I never understood is why back then they all tended to introduce themselves, "Hi. I'm Bob. I'm Gay." Then look at me waiting. After the 3rd or 4th time that happened I started responding, "Hi. I'm Malanu. I have sex with sheep! Now that we've tried to shock each other, Want a beer?" It's funny how word got around that I didn't care!

That's awesome.

Maybe they just wanted to make sure the interaction followed their own terms. As a hard-to-explain person myself, I've found myself doing that. Whenever I make a good friend, I tell them why I'm in a wheelchair so they don't end up going 'If you don't mind may I ask why...?" because that's annoying. And one time at this project fair at my school where my friends were going to meet my parents, I told them that my parents were gay beforehand. They had the same reaction, 'why do we need to know this...?' but I knew I needed to do it anyway, because I had a friend before that came to one of my parties, and acted upset when she saw my parents for the first time.

Even if whatever person they're introducing themselves to isn't judgmental, how do they know that? They don't want to end up spending ANY time with someone who's going to ditch them or make their sexuality the conversation of the evening, so they just tell them they're gay right away to test them.

 

[Malanu]

Difference of upbringing I guess Sunny. My wife is always telling me I don't ask enough questions with my friends. I reply that if they wanted me to know something that they'd tell me. I'd have probably never asked you, I'd have thought of several probable reasons, but if you didn't tell me It's none of my business. You are in a wheel chair, how you got their isn't important to whether you and I are friends... unless it was cause of you doing something illegal. That kind of character trait usually comes out in conversation though.

I haven't met very many people who haven't wanted to talk about their sexuality in my life. Maybe I just have a trust-able face!

 

[Zevn]

I want to talk to you about it Malanu. I find myself wanting to callously proposition women I barely know, but there is an equal conflicting desire to show women kindness, and respect.
__

How do I tell them that I want them to put on a pony suit, and how do I get them to neigh? I end up on a lonely walk home, with only the clip-clop of my costume's hooves on the night's damp pavement to interrupt the near ceaseless muttering if my internal struggle.

 

[Sadib]

What do you guys think about how DC comics is turning one of their long running characters gay? I heard it's Alan Scott, the first Green Lantern. I personally don't understand what the point of this is. They're taking a straight character, with a wife and kids, who was created over 70 years ago, and changing his sexual orientation for absolutely no reason other than some publicity.

 

[CSolarstorm]

...and changing his sexual orientation for absolutely no reason other than some publicity.

That's a bit of an overstatement. It's also about including people of different sexual orientation to reach out to gay teens.

But I think they're going about it the wrong way though. Instead of changing older superheroes who already have established personalities, they should introduce new superheroes that are gay.

 

[Sadib]

That's a bit of an overstatement. It's also about including people of different sexual orientation to reach out to gay teens.

But I think they're going about it the wrong way though. Instead of changing older superheroes who already have established personalities, they should introduce new superheroes that are gay.

I agree with you. Go make new gay characters, just don't make drastic changes to old characters. Changing a pre-existing character's orientation is like changing their race, which has been several times already.

 

[skeeter13]

Actually i think this is a completely different Alan Scott that lives on earth two so it is Alan Scott and it isn't if i have a good understanding of how parallel universes work.

 

[CSolarstorm]

Yeah, what DC does is they alter a character's race or orientation in parallel world or a different continuity so the original hero isn't techically changed. That's how they introduced the black/Mexican Spiderman. But it's still sort of like interfering with the character. And you could interpret it as marginalizing them. Why not have them fight side by side in the same reality as the originals, with their own identities?

On the other hand, I think this is a strategy the media uses to build tolerance for gay characters. If they introduce new superhero that is gay, they run the risk of losing that superhero to readers who aren't tolerant of homosexuality. On the other hand, if they make a familiar superhero gay, the idea is that readers will have to confront their beliefs about homosexuality as they decide whether or not they'll still like that superhero. Kind of like what anti-gay Harry Potter readers had to do when J.K. Rowling said Dumbledore was gay.

 

[7 tyranitars]

Yeah, what DC does is they alter a character's race or orientation in parallel world or a different continuity so the original hero isn't techically changed. That's how they introduced the black/Mexican Spiderman. But it's still sort of like interfering with the character. And you could interpret it as marginalizing them. Why not have them fight side by side in the same reality as the originals, with their own identities?

On the other hand, I think this is a strategy the media uses to build tolerance for gay characters. If they introduce new superhero that is gay, they run the risk of losing that superhero to readers who aren't tolerant of homosexuality. On the other hand, if they make a familiar superhero gay, the idea is that readers will have to confront their beliefs about homosexuality as they decide whether or not they'll still like that superhero. Kind of like what anti-gay Harry Potter readers had to do when J.K. Rowling said Dumbledore was gay.

When I heard about that marvel thing this as the first thing I thought about xD.

 

[Kaiserin]

Yeah, what DC does is they alter a character's race or orientation in parallel world or a different continuity so the original hero isn't techically changed. That's how they introduced the black/Mexican Spiderman. But it's still sort of like interfering with the character. And you could interpret it as marginalizing them. Why not have them fight side by side in the same reality as the originals, with their own identities?

On the other hand, I think this is a strategy the media uses to build tolerance for gay characters. If they introduce new superhero that is gay, they run the risk of losing that superhero to readers who aren't tolerant of homosexuality. On the other hand, if they make a familiar superhero gay, the idea is that readers will have to confront their beliefs about homosexuality as they decide whether or not they'll still like that superhero. Kind of like what anti-gay Harry Potter readers had to do when J.K. Rowling said Dumbledore was gay.

It's also not exactly unheard of for men who get married and have kids to slowly realize that they're either bisexual or completely gay, and have been forcing a heterosexual relationship they don't want in favor of "normalcy" of some sort.

 

[Malanu]

I want to talk to you about it Malanu. I find myself wanting to callously proposition women I barely know, but there is an equal conflicting desire to show women kindness, and respect.
__

How do I tell them that I want them to put on a pony suit, and how do I get them to neigh? I end up on a lonely walk home, with only the clip-clop of my costume's hooves on the night's damp pavement to interrupt the near ceaseless muttering if my internal struggle.

You're nothing different than most guys Zevn. We all wanna be able to just walk up and say something like, "You, Me, horizontal and sweating!" But that only works when the planets all align! As for the pony play... They have sites where you can meet folks into that particular fetish. This way if you want you can fine a "filly" who can give you what you need/want. Now stop horsing around Zevn, and lets get this topic back in the saddle.

 

[Sadib]

Yeah, what DC does is they alter a character's race or orientation in parallel world or a different continuity so the original hero isn't techically changed. That's how they introduced the black/Mexican Spiderman. But it's still sort of like interfering with the character. And you could interpret it as marginalizing them. Why not have them fight side by side in the same reality as the originals, with their own identities?

You are completely wrong. First of all. Spider-Man is Marvel not DC. The black/Mexican Spider-Man is a completely different character, not just Peter Parker in another universe. Think about how there are several different Robins. Nick Fury is a good example of a character whose race is different in in a different universe. There is nothing wrote with that, since both Nick Furys are separate characters. DC also has separate universes. However, there is only one Alan Scott, and he's magically gay for no reason.

 

[TheFightingPikachu]

You are completely wrong. First of all. Spider-Man is Marvel not DC.

I got ninja'd by a Muslim Mario about Mexican Spider Man on a Pokémon forum in my own universe. I did not see that coming!

DC also has separate universes. However, there is only one Alan Scott, and he's magically gay for no reason.

And I basically agree with this. The real question is "why?"


On a related note, I don't think it's as bad as announcing one of your characters is gay after your book series is over (as I've heard the Harry Potter books were when that announcement was made).