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Homosexuality & Politics in the 21st Century

Grey Wind

Well-Known Member
you want to make the choice that gives you the most happiness.
Honestly, that's ridiculous. You really think the happiest choice is the one where you get discriminated against for life? If I could have chosen to be straight, I would have without thinking. I see it as a preference - it's almost like having a favourite colour. You don't choose it, it just happens.
 

~Lati~

Or not :/
I guess I'm really lucky then, since I've never really had to deal with discrimination. Admittedly someone I live with doesn't believe that I'm gay, but he's only really brought it up once.
 

xDWarrior

Well-Known Member
I live in the Bible belt. It's unfortunate when you find out your best friend for 8 years is a Bible-thumping bigot who hates gay marriage solely on the premise that it says it once or twice in the Bible it's wrong. And my roommate is from Georgia and is SUPER anti-gay. His view on gays is "I just don't wanna stop thinking about dick." It's really awful.
 

CSolarstorm

New spicy version
My best friend was anti-gay when I met him. He actually acted like he was going to be sick when I explained to him why I had two moms. He became more tolerant after he realized that he couldn't come up with a rational reason why being gay was wrong. As I understand it, his family is pretty liberal and not very religious, so there was really nothing supporting his dislike besides just a social bias and maybe what he saw on television. It's weird how many opportunities there are to be predjudiced.
 

Metal Mania1321

Stick em' up
Hey people, I hope this question doesn't offend anybody, but Jb#'s question made me think of this. What do you guys think causes Homosexuality? I know it's not a choice so there must be some scientific reason behind it, right? If I had to guess, I would say it could be a lack/abundance of testosterone. What do you guys think?
 

WizardTrubbish

much more beastly
Whilst I believe that it's okay to be gay, a luxury in america, I believe it's a choice.
A luxary? The luxary is that we don't arrest or behead them.

I state my argument not on the bases of whether homosexuality is right or wrong, but wether someones born with it. I dont believe your "born gay" but that you develope your choice in your lifetime, more specificly, in your childhood. Choosing sexuality is like choosing a religion,
Religion is your beleifs, which you chose yourself. But homosexualty is more like race, you don't chose that, you're born with it.
you want to make the choice that gives you the most happiness.
Tell me something that gets more discrimination than homosexuality. I don't think it gives anyone happiness.
No one is "born catholic" except by birthright, but your not inclined to practice it... just like your sexuality.
Your sexuality is not something you can choose not to practice, if it was, nobody, and I mean nobody, would be gay.
There is no "gay gene", if there was, homosexuality would have been widely accepted over the ages and there would be less humans in the race.
People listen to religion first, science last. Even if it's proven homosexuality isn't a choice, people would still deny that and yell out *But the bible says..." If that wasn't the case, we'd all be evolutionists.
 

Sadib

Time Lord Victorious
Let's talk about how homosexuals are now appearing more in fiction. The teacher from Hey Arnold, Mr. Simmons, was stated by the creator of the show to be gay. The show Glee has several gay characters. Ganondorf was raised by two women, but they were just sisters.
 

SwiftSoul

Kinkmeister General
Lack of testosterone doesn't explain some things, though. There are large sub-communities within the gay community as a whole that are extremely masculine themselves, such as leathermen, bears, et cetera. So I don't think a lack of testosterone has anything to do with it.

Just my opinion, of course.
 

the jman

Ak47 I choose you!
Okay, for those who say being gay is something your born with than humor me batman,

What causes a child to be born gay? Give me a logical reason other than "the gay gene" or "idk it just is like being born black". While were on that topic, im going to rebuke a few of the people who replied to my post saying "your born gay, like being born x y or z". Being born any race/color/nationality is a matter of evolution, unlike homosexuality.
 

Sadib

Time Lord Victorious
Okay, for those who say being gay is something your born with than humor me batman,

What causes a child to be born gay? Give me a logical reason other than "the gay gene" or "idk it just is like being born black". While were on that topic, im going to rebuke a few of the people who replied to my post saying "your born gay, like being born x y or z". Being born any race/color/nationality is a matter of evolution, unlike homosexuality.

No one said that people are born gay. Being gay is just not a choice.
 
I've been gone from this debate for too long, and I plan to respond to what people said to me a while ago, but until then, I'm gonna respond to some recent stuff.

Tell me something that gets more discrimination than homosexuality. I don't think it gives anyone happiness.
Find the statistics. You can't just assume that discrimination against one group is the most prevalent form of discrimination.

Let's talk about how homosexuals are now appearing more in fiction. The teacher from Hey Arnold, Mr. Simmons, was stated by the creator of the show to be gay. The show Glee has several gay characters. Ganondorf was raised by two women, but they were just sisters.
By your own admission, Ganondorf is not very relevant to that topic. Also, I highly doubt any gay rights advocates want to use him as evidence that same-sex parenting causes kids to turn out alright. That would sure sound funny.


I feel as though "People can't choose to be gay" is a generalization, not a massive one, but just because the majority of people feel that way, it does not mean everyone does, and if someone came along now and said "I chose to be gay" then you can't very well tell them they are telling a lie.
This is sound advice. There is an exceedingly strong tendency on these forums (and elsewhere) to assume alleged counter-examples away.
 

J.T.

ಠ_ಠ
What causes a child to be born gay? Give me a logical reason other than "the gay gene" or "idk it just is like being born black".

I'll just leave this here again. The evidence so far is that it's a large number of factors - genetics probably play a part of it (not in the sense of there being an individual gay gene, but probably more in the sense of multiple genes causing homosexuality or certain genes making one more prone to becoming homosexual), conditions in the womb probably have a role as well (that whole "the more older brothers you have the more likely you are to be gay" thing, for example), and even some outside environmental factors.

What it all comes down to, though, is there's basically no evidence that homosexuality is a choice. And if it is, please explain to all those people in Uganda lined up for execution for being gay how they would go about choosing not to be gay.

Being born any race/color/nationality is a matter of evolution, unlike homosexuality.

No, it's a matter of genetics (which I suppose you could argue is by extension a matter of evolution). Homosexuality probably also has a genetic portion.
 

ShinySandshrew

†God Follower†
Let's talk about how homosexuals are now appearing more in fiction. The teacher from Hey Arnold, Mr. Simmons, was stated by the creator of the show to be gay. The show Glee has several gay characters. Ganondorf was raised by two women, but they were just sisters.

Gannondorf was born into a race where a male child is only born once every 100 years and the rest of the time the children that are born are female. When the women of the Gerudo race want to reproduce, they kidnap a guy.

...Now that's a healthy relationship!
 

UnovaMaster

Well-Known Member
Being gay can be a choice. What if you had an extreme disliking for women, even though you grew up attracted to them, and decided to go homosexual for some bro type relationships?
 

paracelsus

Well-Known Member
Being gay can be a choice. What if you had an extreme disliking for women, even though you grew up attracted to them, and decided to go homosexual for some bro type relationships?

If that were the case, it would exist on a strictly non-sexual level, unless your already held a predisposition towards bisexuality. Trust me, if its not there, u wouldn't be able to get it up. In all of the time Ive spent on four-chan, Ive never gotten a boner from it
 

CSolarstorm

New spicy version
Hey people, I hope this question doesn't offend anybody, but Jb#'s question made me think of this. What do you guys think causes Homosexuality? I know it's not a choice so there must be some scientific reason behind it, right? If I had to guess, I would say it could be a lack/abundance of testosterone. What do you guys think?

Though this is a personal anecdote, I do not believe it is lack of testosterone. Part of my handicap caused me to have very little testerone - and my parents are these hypothetical 'gay influences' - yet despite both of those, I was attracted to a girl when I was like, seven years old, and haven't swayed since.

Religion is your beleifs, which you chose yourself. But homosexualty is more like race, you don't chose that, you're born with it.

Are people really born homosexual? Don't make claims you can't back up, nobody's come to a conclusion on this one yet. >>

Tell me something that gets more discrimination than homosexuality.

Women under Sharia law - I think I found an example! I was going to say 'Muslims' but I thought of it, and depreciation of homosexuality is just so widespread, they can find people who are biased everywhere, they can face the death penalty automatically in some countries, they were a group targeted in the holocaust, and condemning them is a part of millions of people's normal vocabulary, it really is an example of a group that faces very pervasive discrimination.

Your sexuality is not something you can choose not to practice, if it was, nobody, and I mean nobody, would be gay.

People listen to religion first, science last. Even if it's proven homosexuality isn't a choice, people would still deny that and yell out *But the bible says..." If that wasn't the case, we'd all be evolutionists.

Yes they would, what hyperbole. One of the eight billion people in this world would still try it, regardless of the prejudice they'd face. Just because it's against the status quo doesn't mean they would be caught and condemned for it. Also, there are religious gay people who believe in evolution! And there are athiests who listen to science first. Why would you talk in such generalizations?

Okay, for those who say being gay is something your born with than humor me batman,

What causes a child to be born gay? Give me a logical reason other than "the gay gene" or "idk it just is like being born black". While were on that topic, im going to rebuke a few of the people who replied to my post saying "your born gay, like being born x y or z". Being born any race/color/nationality is a matter of evolution, unlike homosexuality.

How do you figure being gay is not genetic and thus a result of evolution? IMO, the 'gay' category is not real and people can be in love with the same gender for a variety of different reasons, genetic, hormonal, or psychological, or even by preference.

No one said that people are born gay. Being gay is just not a choice.

Yes, ShinyRaikou said that people are born gay. And some people who call themselves gay say that it was choice for them.

What it all comes down to, though, is there's basically no evidence that homosexuality is a choice. And if it is, please explain to all those people in Uganda lined up for execution for being gay how they would go about choosing not to be gay.

Or, being gay can be a choice, while other times - maybe most of the time, people just know they are gay, thus, not a choice. People can acclimate themselves to certain activities and tastes and adopt them, but they would only choose to do so in a place that won't execute them for it. Anybody in Uganda who can be straight, will be straight, and those who are executed for it are gay and didn't choose to be. That's why you can only find people who claim to have chosen to be gay in western countries where that sort of thing is acceptable and not punished by execution.

Being gay can be a choice. What if you had an extreme disliking for women, even though you grew up attracted to them, and decided to go homosexual for some bro type relationships?

That's a more complicated scenario than you present it. Their dislike for women is not a choice, though their decision to not date them because of that dislike is a choice. If they can't get over that dislike, they're either out of luck, or maybe aesexual. If psychologically they ended up attracted to men because they were discouraged from dating women, and then decided to date men instead, the decision is a choice, but the attraction to men is not a choice, but a preference. If they decided to experiment with men not because they actually liked men, but just cause they couldn't stand women, then they decided to be gay.
 

Sadib

Time Lord Victorious
People listen to religion first, science last. Even if it's proven homosexuality isn't a choice, people would still deny that and yell out *But the bible says..." If that wasn't the case, we'd all be evolutionists.

That's right, because there are only two types of people in the world: Christians and Evolutionists. No overlap, and no third option.
 

Psychic

Really and truly
Okay, for those who say being gay is something your born with than humor me batman,

What causes a child to be born gay? Give me a logical reason other than "the gay gene" or "idk it just is like being born black". While were on that topic, im going to rebuke a few of the people who replied to my post saying "your born gay, like being born x y or z". Being born any race/color/nationality is a matter of evolution, unlike homosexuality.
What causes a child to be born with great musical skills? What causes a child to be born with blue eyes? What causes a child to be born with big feet? it isn't always a simple, singular answer, and sometimes it's pure randomness. Everybody is born different - some people don't have the same hair colour as you, and some people don't have the same sexual preferences as you.

I have trouble believing that your sexuality is a choice. When did any of you choose to be straight? I never chose to be straight. I have always known that I liked guys the same way I have always known my eyes are blue. I can't force my eyes to change colour any more than I can force myself to sincerely like women. This was how I was born, and it's not something I can magically change.

~Psychic
 

Double A

Well-Known Member
Like I've said before, I think it's a combination of nature and nurture, and that it's still for the most part out of the person's control.
 
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