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Homosexuality & Politics in the 21st Century

randomspot555

Well-Known Member
What causes a child to be born with great musical skills? What causes a child to be born with blue eyes? What causes a child to be born with big feet? it isn't always a simple, singular answer, and sometimes it's pure randomness. Everybody is born different - some people don't have the same hair colour as you, and some people don't have the same sexual preferences as you.

I have trouble believing that your sexuality is a choice. When did any of you choose to be straight? I never chose to be straight. I have always known that I liked guys the same way I have always known my eyes are blue. I can't force my eyes to change colour any more than I can force myself to sincerely like women. This was how I was born, and it's not something I can magically change.

~Psychic

I think the key to "gay=choice" line of thought is that a choice is okay to discriminate against because you can just stop being gay. Following that logic, it's also okay to discriminate against faith/religious beliefs because hey, you can just believe something else if you want.
 

Sadib

Time Lord Victorious
I think the key to "gay=choice" line of thought is that a choice is okay to discriminate against because you can just stop being gay. Following that logic, it's also okay to discriminate against faith/religious beliefs because hey, you can just believe something else if you want.
Religious beliefs are choices though. Obesity is mostly a choice.
 

Grey Wind

Well-Known Member
Okay, for those who say being gay is something your born with than humor me batman,
Except we never said that. We said that it's not a choice.

What causes a child to be born gay? Give me a logical reason other than "the gay gene" or "idk it just is like being born black". While were on that topic, im going to rebuke a few of the people who replied to my post saying "your born gay, like being born x y or z". Being born any race/color/nationality is a matter of evolution, unlike homosexuality.
We simply don't know. What we do know is that (for the vast majority of people) is that it's not a choice in any way. Do you honestly believe that a person would choose to be discriminated against? It's just the way someone is. Some people are born good at art, some people are born liking the colour red- some people are born attracted to the same sex. It's just the way we are.

Tell me this, did you sit down one day, weigh up your options, and choose to be straight? If it is a choice, then why can't you change your sexuality now?

Being gay can be a choice. What if you had an extreme disliking for women, even though you grew up attracted to them, and decided to go homosexual for some bro type relationships?
That's not choosing. That's changing what you identify as. If said person did "change", they would still be sexually attracted to women and therefore straight.
 

xDWarrior

Well-Known Member
It's highly possible that homosexuality is a mutation of an already existing gene. Another possible explanation is it is a side effect of a gene that has an entirely different effect.
 

daveshan

My little friend
I have something to say about the argument of 'is it natural or not'.

Driving cars isn't natural. I don't recall going to Home Depot and seeing Dodge Caravan seeds.

You can't get fire hydrants by taking a 1/2 cup of flour, two cartons of orange juice, a pinch of flour, and heating it for thirty minutes.

There aren't schools of IBM laptops swimming about in the Atlantic Ocean, constantly on the look out for a great white Mac G5.

PS3's don't migrate from the Northern Hemisphere to the Southern and vice-versa every fall and spring.

And, correct me if I'm wrong, but I never heard of anyone bravely climbing Mt. Beach Towel, home of the largest beach towel mine, located a mile outside Beach Townel, the town named after the vast supply of beach towels that settlers found sprouting out of the ground.


I think everyone gets the idea.
 

the jman

Ak47 I choose you!
Okay explain how one cannot be born gay, but not have it be a choice either.
 

randomspot555

Well-Known Member
Okay explain how one cannot be born gay, but not have it be a choice either.

Just as there is no "heterosexual" gene, there's no "gay" gene either. It's unknown how sexual orientation is determined,but there are several theories around it. One of the theories that is supported by absolutely no evidence is that it's a choice, that someone can just "flip a switch" and become gay, and then flip another switch and become straight.
 

Psychic

Really and truly
I have something to say about the argument of 'is it natural or not'.

Driving cars isn't natural. I don't recall going to Home Depot and seeing Dodge Caravan seeds.

I think everyone gets the idea.
Animals can be homosexual, too. Did animals "learn" to be homosexual the same way animals learned to drive cars? Why would an animal choose or learn to be gay?

The only argument this makes is that humans created tools. This does not prove that humans invented homosexuality. That's like saying humans invented having blue eyes or being tall. We did not invent or choose to have those qualities, as AlphapupQuicksilver said. Animals can have blue eyes or be tall, too - that's just the way they are.

If homosexuality is learned, then prove it. Watch some instructional videos and put them to practice. Stop liking members of the opposite sex and start liking members of the same sex, and see if it works.


Being gay can be a choice. What if you had an extreme disliking for women, even though you grew up attracted to them, and decided to go homosexual for some bro type relationships?
That is actually homosocial, not homosexual. Homosocial means you prefer hanging out and being friends with members of the same sex. So you can be a guy and be attracted to women, but still want to hang out with guy-friends. Who you are attracted to and who you like to chill out with aren't the same thing. :)


Just as there is no "heterosexual" gene, there's no "gay" gene either. It's unknown how sexual orientation is determined,but there are several theories around it. One of the theories that is supported by absolutely no evidence is that it's a choice, that someone can just "flip a switch" and become gay, and then flip another switch and become straight.
It should also be noted that most of the people who have tried to "flip a switch" and change their sexuality only became miserable because they felt they were living a lie. As randomspot said, there really is zero evidence that this works or is true.


~Psychic
 
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Grey Wind

Well-Known Member
Okay explain how one cannot be born gay, but not have it be a choice either.
First off, we never said that people aren't born gay, that's most of the argument. I said that we never said that people are solely born gay, not that we didn't believe it. A person could easily be born gay. Or, simply, a person is gay for the same reason someone is straight.

Secondly, it could be due to the way a person is raised. Factors in a child's life growing up could influence they're sexuality as they grow older.

And again, I'll ask you, if you're so certain it's a choice, why don't you choose to be gay? I swear, everybody arguing this conveniently ignores me when I ask this.
 

xDWarrior

Well-Known Member
Animals can be homosexual, too. Did animals "learn" to be homosexual the same way animals learned to drive cars? Why would an animal choose or learn to be gay?

It's true. More than one case has documented dolphins of the same sex having intercourse.
 

the jman

Ak47 I choose you!
Funny how the heterosexuals are the most butthurt over homosexuality
 

Psychic

Really and truly
Funny how the heterosexuals are the most butthurt over homosexuality
Correction: we are annoyed at homophobia. And as SS pointed out, we are of all backgrounds and sexualities - heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, transsexual, the list goes on. So why are we all upset?

Why were people up in arms about racism? Why did people want to put an end to sexism?

Because it is discriminating against a group of people for a stupid reason. When you discriminate against a group of people for who they are attracted to, you are just as bad as somebody who discriminates based on race or gender or how tall someone is. Simply put, it makes you look ignorant. And the world would be a better place is there were less ignorant people and more focus on equality.


Now, if you can't participate in a debate by making actual points to debate, please leave.

~Psychic
 

Sadib

Time Lord Victorious
Funny how the heterosexuals are the most butthurt over homosexuality

You chose the worst wording possible. Is there actually a point to your post? You were first saying that being gay is a choice. When everyone told you that you were wrong, you basically gave up and did your nonsensical post which added nothing to this debate.

If you have no idea what's going on, then you probably shouldn't be debating.
 

daveshan

My little friend
Animals can be homosexual, too. Did animals "learn" to be homosexual the same way animals learned to drive cars? Why would an animal choose or learn to be gay?

The only argument this makes is that humans created tools. This does not prove that humans invented homosexuality. That's like saying humans invented having blue eyes or being tall. We did not invent or choose to have those qualities, as AlphapupQuicksilver said. Animals can have blue eyes or be tall, too - that's just the way they are.

If homosexuality is learned, then prove it. Watch some instructional videos and put them to practice. Stop liking members of the opposite sex and start liking members of the same sex, and see if it works.

Ok... wow. I guess I wasn't clear. Let's try it again with just a touch less subtlety.

SAYING THAT SAME-SEX RELATIONSHIPS ARE UNNATURAL IS A STUPID ARGUMENT BECAUSE WE DO UNNATURAL THINGS ALL THE TIME AND EVERYTHING TURNS OUT GREAT!

There, I hope now that I made my point just a tad more clear, there won't be any confusion.
 

Dr. Ste

Pokemon Breeder
From the thread title, I'll assume we're talking more about the legal aspect of homosexuality. Of course, one could generalize the different arguments. But questions like "Is it wrong?", "Is it a sin?" etc, are complicated and create more fuss, and less social impact.

-I see that you're going all over genes vs choice. In my opinion, that dilemma is totally irrelevant. Suppose being gay is 100% dependent on choice (as I believe it is). If someone is about to do something homosexual that has no impact on any other person, is there any good reason why they shouldn't do it? Seemingly no. But if there is, it would obviously be applicable to the case where sexual orientation is well defined from birth.

-Yes, it seems that there are frequent occurrences of homosexuality on other species, but that's also irrelevant. We are human. If some of you are not, then the laws are not applicable to you anyway.

-Free speech. Homophobia and using "gay" as "lame" on one hand, Hollywood, media and subliminal messages on the other. You can't tell people and corporations what to say and do. After all, it's naive to want to be liked by everyone.

-On "cultural effects", like how some people believe that homosexuals act indecent and, as such, create a degenerate image of one's nation, you might see that those "homosexual indecent acts" are just different versions of "heterosexual indecent acts". For example, if you're a guy:

Insistingly hitting on a guy <=> insistingly hitting on a girl
Having multiple gay partners <=> having multiple girlfriends
Revealing your gay deeds on others <=> bragging about your multiple jackhammer adventures
Dressing, talking, shaking like a dumb little girl everywhere you go <=> Dressing, shouting, standing like a total douchebag everywhere people tolerate you
Watching gay porn <=> watching other types of porn
Imposing your sexuality <=> imposing your sexuality
etc.

However, it is possible that there are exceptions. Do they have a reasonable impact?

-Perhaps I missed the related discussion, but health implications are the real issue. Things like HIV and anal sex. One should not only think if these implications are real, but also if the role of the state is such as to regulate such things.

-And finally, gay rights. It's an issue of the economy, really. More government spending available = more social offerings. A few years ago, gay rights briefly emerged on the Greek media. Now it's about people-who-barely-make-it-anymore rights. I believe a marriage can't offer anything to a couple in an emotional perspective, unless it's a couple that wants to bring personal affairs to the public (which is bad for love). To be clear, I believe that being homosexual relationships should be legal, as long as there is consent.

I hope it wasn't too long.
 
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the jman

Ak47 I choose you!
No I only said the because the people here are talking in circles, providing opinions and not facts, relating other experiences and not own...
But please, continue.

Oh and no, im not a bigot nor am I discriminating. Unless you think my last post was, in which case I make fun of everthing including gays. Kinda like southpark.
 

CSolarstorm

New spicy version
No I only said the because the people here are talking in circles, providing opinions and not facts, relating other experiences and not own... But please, continue.

Oh and no, im not a bigot nor am I discriminating. Unless you think my last post was, in which case I make fun of everthing including gays. Kinda like southpark.

Well, at least they're talking in whole circles. (Except for JT, did you see the link he provided?) You haven't even begun to go anywhere, besides just making snide remarks and referencing South Park (southpark), and you're the one with the burden of proof! *shrugs*
 
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