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Homosexuality & Politics in the 21st Century

Maedar

Banned
Remind me again how stating what he thinks were sins was saying bad things? And why aren't there any complaints about the other things he listed as sins?

As Silver Soul put it, a State Representative chickened out when a gay person gave him a stone and dares him to stone him as the Bible demanded.

Will you do so, LDS? Will anyone like Phil be willing to follow the orders put down by God in Leviticus and stone gays to death?

No they won't, and the reason is, they are using that obscure passage in the Bible to hide behind bigotry.

Oh, and as I said before, Phil was trying to encourage statutory rape among his fans, and that is not a matter of what is a sin and what is not, that is a crime.
 
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LDSman

Well-Known Member
Phil Robertson talk about love while disrespecting the LGBT community and giving advice to marry girls at 16. Those so-called family values is just a pathetic attempt to hide their own homophobic behavior which just end up making guys like him on the wrong side of history. You can't invoke Jesus while being an intolerant a-hole because he didn't say ANYTHING about homosexuality in the Bible.
You earn respect. You can't demand it. Robertson got married to his wife when she was 16 and they are still married.

I mean if guys he like Robertson really followed the Bible so much, should he cast the first stone against this transgendered citizen who dared the one who vote against banning LGBT discrimination in Shreveport, LA to do so but couldn't? Now she got balls.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/01/pamela-raintree-rob-webb-_n_4699226.html

She was also in no danger of being actually stoned as there are laws and plenty of people there who would have defended her.
There's also bigots and right-wingers on Twitter and sites complained about the multilingual Coca-Cola ad singing "America The Beautiful" in more than one language. They complain about that English is THE official language even though the US doesn't have one and that the ad also featured a gay family. Now here's the mind-blown part, the song was actually written by a GASP... Lesbian!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/03/coke-commercial-gay-family_n_4717635.html

http://pjmedia.com/blog/the-super-bowl-coke-ad-and-cultural-relativism/?singlepage=true

There’s nothing wrong with the ad, if interpreted as most people saw it — recent immigrants praising America in their own native languages. Only in the context of today’s multi-culti cult is the ad problematic, so it’s the cult that’s the problem, not the ad.

We have a long history of new immigrants singing praise of their adopted homeland in their native tongues. As late as 1943, the Educational Alliance was circulating a Yiddish translation of the “Star-Spangled Banner” to honor the 100th anniversary of the death of Francis Scott Key. Earlier in the century, Jews wrote patriotic music in Yiddish: “Long Live America,” “Long Live the Land of the Free,” and “Washington und Lincoln und Moshe Rabbeinu (Moses, our Teacher),” which must have involved a fair amount of cultural as well as linguistic translation.

All this happened while their kids were learning English and enlisting to fight in both World Wars. Even before WWI, in 1910, we have, “It’s tough when Izzy Rosenstein loves Genevieve Malone,” although actual intermarriage wouldn’t reach epidemic proportions for another 70 years.

New immigrants have always had questions about their loyalty — but I think it’s fair to say that writing patriotic songs in their native tongues, and translating traditional American ones, isn’t the source of those suspicions.

What conservatives were reacting against are the sentiments in this Facebook posting from a friend of mine who’s a political science professor at a major Midwestern state university:


As the child and grandchild of immigrants, who worked to make a place for themselves in this country *and* who spent considerable resources on my education so that I would be able to fluently speak the language they spoke when they arrived here, I absolutely cannot figure out why this commercial or the idea of multiculturalism has so unhinged so many people. This desperate drive to make “America” or “Americans” into a single thing that matches one’s own personal experience seems so futile, such a waste of time and energy.

It encapsulates pretty much everything that’s wrong with the cult of multi-culti and the way it’s been sold to several generations of Americans. (By the way, this is also from a guy who has, as near as I can tell, made little-to-no genuine effort to understand the large swath of his own fellow Americans who love and care about guns, so I guess cultural relativism has its limits.)

Those who see assimilation as a sine qua non of a functioning society made up of immigrants don’t futilely want to make America (sans scare quotes) into “one single thing.” They understand America as a broad umbrella that can contain a wide variety of differences.


What they object to is the idealization of the countries of origin, which inevitably balkanizes the country, and short-circuits the adoption of the American idea by new immigrants.

Those who object to the Coke ad see it in terms of a cultural elite that seems determined to drag the rest of the country along with it down a road of cultural cowardice and American unexceptionalism. That’s a fair assessment of multiculturalism, but wildly over-interprets the ad.

They also reject the self-evidently false assertion that all cultures are equally valid on their own terms, which brings me to the other, far more objectionable ad of the evening.

I enjoyed the ad myself, but there are some valid points to be raised about it. The Axe ad was worse. As far as the song writer being a lesbian? There's no proof either way. You can love someone without it being sexual in nature.


As Silver Soul put it, a State Representative chickened out when a gay person gave him a stone and dares him to stone him as the Bible demanded.
Will you do so, LDS? Will anyone like Phil be willing to follow the orders put down by God in Leviticus and stone gays to death?
And I once again, don't care how people live their lives. I only object to the gov't forcing people or churches to perform or recognize gay marriages if there is a religious objection.

No they won't, and the reason is, they are using that obscure passage in the Bible to hide behind bigotry.

Oh, and as I said before, Phil was trying to encourage statutory rape among his fans, and that is not a matter of what is a sin and what is not, that is a crime.
And once again, getting married at 16 with parental permission is allowed in some states and that makes it NOT statutory rape. Because they are LEGALLY MARRIED!
 

Maedar

Banned
She was also in no danger of being actually stoned as there are laws and plenty of people there who would have defended her.

Well, the guy sure folded on his proposed law quickly.

And once again, getting married at 16 with parental permission is allowed in some states and that makes it NOT statutory rape. Because they are LEGALLY MARRIED!

Once again, I ask for documented proof.
 

7 tyranitars

Well-Known Member
Phil Robertson talk about love while disrespecting the LGBT community and giving advice to marry girls at 16. Those so-called family values is just a pathetic attempt to hide their own homophobic behavior which just end up making guys like him on the wrong side of history. You can't invoke Jesus while being an intolerant a-hole because he didn't say ANYTHING about homosexuality in the Bible.

I mean if guys he like Robertson really followed the Bible so much, should he cast the first stone against this transgendered citizen who dared the one who vote against banning LGBT discrimination in Shreveport, LA to do so but couldn't? Now she got balls.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/01/pamela-raintree-rob-webb-_n_4699226.html

There's also bigots and right-wingers on Twitter and sites complained about the multilingual Coca-Cola ad singing "America The Beautiful" in more than one language. They complain about that English is THE official language even though the US doesn't have one and that the ad also featured a gay family. Now here's the mind-blown part, the song was actually written by a GASP... Lesbian!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/03/coke-commercial-gay-family_n_4717635.html

Also Virginia, there will be a case with the Virginia's same-sex marriage ban with the newly sworn in AG Mark Herring not defending it as he said it is unconstitutional. This is big since Virginia is a swing state with all top three gubernatorial seats now held by Democrats.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/05/u...lenge-of-virginias-same-sex-marriage-ban.html

I spit out my drink from laughter when I heard about americans rage about the coca cola ad, they tend to forget they are the offspring of european IMMIGRANTS themselves.
 

LDSman

Well-Known Member
Well, the guy sure folded on his proposed law quickly.
He had absolutely no support. Folding makes him look better than continuing a pointless battle.


Once again, I ask for documented proof.
It was already provided.
 

Maedar

Banned
Laws regarding Statutory Rape:

http://www.cga.ct.gov/2003/olrdata/jud/rpt/2003-r-0376.htm

For Louisiana, where Phil is a resident, it is defined as, and I quote, "Felony carnal knowledge of a juvenile is sexual intercourse with consent between (1) someone age 19 or older and someone between age 12 and 17 or (2) someone age 17 or older and someone between age 12 and 15" punishable by "Up to 10 years in prison (with or without hard labor)".

And "Misdemeanor carnal knowledge of a juvenile is sexual intercourse with consent between someone age 17 to 19 and someone age 15 to 17 when the difference in their ages is greater than two years", punishable by up to six months in prison".

Unquote.

There are no provisions for contractual deals, marital status, and parental permission here.
 

PinkiePieFox

Team Flare Grunt
I may live in England but I know a bit of what's going on in America. Recently gay marriage was legalised, you may be surprised that it was our right wing party the Conservatives. I believe it is legal in some states of America?

I have to say I find radical Christians and such very annoying, they say it is a sin but in the Bible it said keeping slaves is ok if you treat them well. It is not just Christians but I am just using them as the example in America (Sorry guys <3) and I know fully well not all Christians are like this. But it is people like that who are a minority with a loud voice being unfair to people who are probably greater in number then they are.

I do find some American laws a little silly (Americans probably find some British laws silly :p) like the one Maedar says it seems a bit extreme. In Britain our consenting age is 16, same age as it is to marry (with parents' permission). Many young teenagers (14-16) have older girl/boyfriends, but they are both consenting. Even though it is an offense to have intercourse under the age of 16 I haven't heard of any prosecution for young teenagers (when both are under 16).
But if things are found out about someone having intercourse if they are over 16 and the partner is under 16, even if both consent, they still get prosecuted if found out. But it seems to be harsher law for a female under 16 and a male over 16 then a male under 16 and a female over 16, which I find silly when we're supposedly all into equality (I believe this is the same for other countries?)

May just be me, I do draw the line at under 14s but at that age they should both be held accountable if they both consented. Under 14s can be easily persuaded as they haven't properly developed then. But I am ok with the law as it is, some people aren't and I find it a little harsh because if the parent finds out and don't like it they can prosecute the over 16 and punish the child. (Recently happened here, I found it rather horrible that the parents practically disowned their child and she was only 15, a year off the legal age. The man was 30 and should have known better, but she did hit on him while he was on hard times.)

I'll just set things out clear in case people misunderstand me, I hate pedos but I'm with Japan on the legal consenting age (14). I also believe in equality.
 

Steampunk

One Truth Prevails
Leviticus 20:13 "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them"

2 things:

1) I said modern day Christians. Many times on this site, I have gone through how we are no longer under the Mosaic law.
2) Does this scripture say that the Homosexual desires are wrong? No, it doesn't. I said show me a scripture that says that Gays should be killed, as in "Someone who has a sexual attraction to the same gender".
 

Silver Soul

Well-Known Member
2 things:

1) I said modern day Christians. Many times on this site, I have gone through how we are no longer under the Mosaic law.
2) Does this scripture say that the Homosexual desires are wrong? No, it doesn't. I said show me a scripture that says that Gays should be killed, as in "Someone who has a sexual attraction to the same gender".

Then that's exactly the problem with homophobic behavior from those type of Christians these days. Despite Jesus never said anything about homosexuality, the use the Bible to hide their bigotry and would dare to exercise them on creating laws to ban gay marriage and worse, making homosexuality a crime in countries like Nigeria, Uganda, and Russia.
 

Steampunk

One Truth Prevails
Let me expand on one or two things here:
The Bible clearly does not approve of Homosexual acts. And although Jesus never mentioned it, it is mentioned in the NT.
The Bible clearly does not condemn Homosexual Desires/Feelings, to the contrary, there is actually a passage that seems to acknowledge, that you can have Homosexual desires/feelings, and still be acceptable to god. [1 Corinthians 6: 9-11]
The Bible, never mentions the subject of Homosexual marriage. But seeing as Homosexual acts, are clearly not condoned, then the answer to that is more inferred. Now, technically, one could argue that Homosexuals could be married, and if they do not have sex, then that would be acceptable. But there are arguments to that as well.
 

Maedar

Banned
You mind citing a verse that specifically commands modern day Christians to kill gays?


"If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

- Leviticus 20:13

That one-sentence phrase from an Old Testament book which nobody ever reads or quotes from otherwise in modern times is the reason the fundamentalist people claim they oppose it "out of religion".

I repeat, and I emphasize, it is an excuse for bigotry.

If anyone disagrees, then I can tell them where to find stones for anyone who wants to enforce God's work. But not a lawyer who will defend you when the police throw you in the slammer for trying.

This is America. Not ancient Babylon.

Edit: Pinkie, ironic that you compare British law to ours.

Anyone here ever watch For Your Eyes Only? As much an anti-hero, lustful rake, and at times, complete jerk that James Bond often was in that time period, it seemed that sleeping with an underage girl - even one who had a major crush on him - was a line he would never cross. Tells you something.
 
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Silver Soul

Well-Known Member
On Fox News, an Orthodox Rabbi calls out the panel and Phil Robertson for damaging religion by bashing gays. As he said, "Bashing Gays is not religion." He actually said it on a network that uses religious freedom as in excuse for bigotry with Sean Hannity being anti-gay.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/02/...on-duck-dynasty-bashing-gays-is-not-religion/

“Amanda’s comment is very telling,” Boteach said. “The religious person hears a calling. It’s not career, it’s not about them, it’s about the wider contribution they can make to society in general. And that breeds humility.”

“But on this with Duck Dynasty, they’ve done tremendous damage to religion,” he added. “We have to stop making religion in America about bashing gays. They just have to forswear that stupid comment about comparing homosexuality to bestiality.

And Boteach was just warming up: “You see the problem in America is we overlook all the heterosexual guys who are raping women, one in five, on the campus. We saw this terrible statistic that in Alaska…”

The rabbi was probably going to make a point about Alaskan women being raped at a rate three times the national average, but Carlson and Griffith cut him off.

“I don’t think that’s what they’re about,” Griffith argued.

“Bashing gays is not religion!” Boteach shot back. “What is religion is family dinners and combating the divorce rate.”

“If Christians want to buy this from somebody who’s made very bigoted and very stereotypical and very awful comments about women and African-Americans that’s their choice,” American Atheists Managing Director Amanda Knief pointed out. “But I am certainly going to find my moral leanings from someone else, not from reality TV characters.”
 

LDSman

Well-Known Member
Laws regarding Statutory Rape:

http://www.cga.ct.gov/2003/olrdata/jud/rpt/2003-r-0376.htm

For Louisiana, where Phil is a resident, it is defined as, and I quote, "Felony carnal knowledge of a juvenile is sexual intercourse with consent between (1) someone age 19 or older and someone between age 12 and 17 or (2) someone age 17 or older and someone between age 12 and 15" punishable by "Up to 10 years in prison (with or without hard labor)".

And "Misdemeanor carnal knowledge of a juvenile is sexual intercourse with consent between someone age 17 to 19 and someone age 15 to 17 when the difference in their ages is greater than two years", punishable by up to six months in prison".

Unquote.

There are no provisions for contractual deals, marital status, and parental permission here.

If a court grants a marriage license to someone that is 16, they are granting permission for that couple to have sex. It is not statutory rape.

As for as stoning? The politician should have replied, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." I can disapprove of homosexual behaviors without having to stone anyone.
 

Maedar

Banned
If a court grants a marriage license to someone that is 16, they are granting permission for that couple to have sex. It is not statutory rape.

And again, you miss the point completely. Even if his marriage was legal (which I still don't believe) what I have issue with is he - and his employers - assuming that encouraging his viewers to do it was A) appropriate, B) tasteful, C) proper, D) fit to air, and E) a good career choice. None of which is true.

As for as stoning? The politician should have replied, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." I can disapprove of homosexual behaviors without having to stone anyone.

Then for someone who claims to be a religious man, maybe he hasn't read the Good Book as thoroughly as he claims, and is, as I claim, using it as an excuse.
 

LDSman

Well-Known Member
And again, you miss the point completely. Even if his marriage was legal (which I still don't believe)
Prove it wasn't legal then.

what I have issue with is he - and his employers - assuming that encouraging his viewers to do it was A) appropriate, B) tasteful, C) proper, D) fit to air, and E) a good career choice. None of which is true.

1) The talk was given before the reality show started. 2) How dare someone give advice related to how he had a successful marriage for so long. 3) Your opinion is noted.


Then for someone who claims to be a religious man, maybe he hasn't read the Good Book as thoroughly as he claims, and is, as I claim, using it as an excuse.

Or he wasn't prepared to respond to someone demanding to be stoned.
 

PinkiePieFox

Team Flare Grunt
Well my answer for Christians divided over gay marriage is the fact that there are many churches (More then I can can remember) and this is because people interpretative the Bible differently. There are some who take it literal and others who see it as something that was written 2000 years ago by many different men and some books were lost or not compiled.
But it gives an outline to Christianity, in England with the dissolution (King Henry VIII wanted to divorce his wife but since England was Catholic that wasn't allowed, so he decided to make the Church Of England, which is protestant, and made his own church with his interpretations of the Bible and updates) there are may people who take the Bible differently, hence different counties being different in their Christian belief.

My main point is that the Bible is old, and Jesus doesn't exactly want to shock the hell out of everyone since he already did the last supper, saying things that weren't acceptable then would be a very bad move, so would probably be fine with how the times move. Plus if God didn't want us doing or thinking certain things he could easily wipe us out. But he hasn't, so things must be fine. Ad if God claims to be forgiving he can't be a hypocrite and not forgive certain people.

On a personal matter I know a lot about different religions, I find them very interesting. I also like History despite being awful at it in GCSEs (finals I believe for Americans? It's set of exams you take at the age of 14-16). I don't really have a specific belief but take morals and different philosophies from different religions (you can PM me if you're wondering.) That way I can talk about any religion and not have specific ties. But with politicians they can have their religion cloud their judgement, it should be a factor but not a main influence. Countries that are run by religion like Nigeria and such can be very corrupt and scary places (even medieval England!)

On a Russian matter I don't really see what their problem is, it appears they think all homosexuals are pedos... I know a lot of homosexuals and am friends with a few and none of them are that. It can be the same for people saying all catholic priests like little boys, no. Pedos become priests, priests don't become pedos. It's the same with any job.
 

Maedar

Banned
Prove it wasn't legal then.

I provided a link the document which defines proves statutory rape is a crime in Louisiana, and you refuse to provide any that provides an exception, and until you do, I will not provide another link.


1) The talk was given before the reality show started. 2) How dare someone give advice related to how he had a successful marriage for so long. 3) Your opinion is noted.


And that does not change the fact that his show's ratings took a nosedive, despite predictions of a higher ones on the season opener.
 
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