How can ash reach the finals ever again?

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

By staying focused,training with his pokemon,and not regressing like he did in BW.

 

[Greneuliest808]

By staying focused,training with his pokemon,and not regressing like he did in BW.

This is exactly my thoughts. Stick with his style because that worked for Ash the most.

 

[Xenon Blue]

Just do what you did in DP and prey to Arceus that Trollbias doesn't appear (unless Trollbias has an Arceus, then well fk)

 

[Greneuliest808]

Just do what you did in DP and prey to Arceus that Trollbias doesn't appear (unless Trollbias has an Arceus, then well fk)

This as well.

 

[GLTSRY]

So Goodra is better than Snorlax because its only wins were done through spamming bide and Clemont's Luxray is his only true victory(in type advantage, mind you) over Snorlax who never goes down without beating at least one Pokémon, even with type disadvantage, when Medicham and Hariyama, Steelix)? That's some logical mind right there

Ok, first of all, Bide is as much of an attack as Snorlax' Bodyslam. Moreover, it defeated Tierno basically on its own. Goodra wasn't only in a disadvantage against Slurpuff and Bisharp, it was actually useless on paper thx to its amazing movepool. It tied with Slurpuff were only Bide worked, and was only defeated because Bisharp resisted Bide and had Guillotine (And the writers didn't want Greninja to be the fall guy), which are pretty amazing feats.

Also, Snorlax never had the issue of 4 moves only, and basically spammed 7-8 moves until sth. worked. He's clearly one of Ash's stronger Pokemon, but Goodra is just stronger imo

 

[Xenon Blue]

How can you argue Goodra over Snorlax?

Everytime Snorlax is used in battle it does amazing (vs Gary, vs Harrison, vs Greta), constantly making the opposing Pokemon look like a fool. Goodra on the other hand failed to put up good results in the league, and the only notable win is vs Clement.

 

[GLTSRY]

How can you argue Goodra over Snorlax?

Everytime Snorlax is used in battle it does amazing (vs Gary, vs Harrison, vs Greta), constantly making the opposing Pokemon look like a fool. Goodra on the other hand failed to put up good results in the league, and the only notable win is vs Clement.

Did you even read what I wrote?

Obviously not

 

[MasterTobias]

Ok, first of all, Bide is as much of an attack as Snorlax' Bodyslam. Moreover, it defeated Tierno basically on its own. Goodra wasn't only in a disadvantage against Slurpuff and Bisharp, it was actually useless on paper thx to its amazing movepool. It tied with Slurpuff were only Bide worked, and was only defeated because Bisharp resisted Bide and had Guillotine (And the writers didn't want Greninja to be the fall guy), which are pretty amazing feats.

Also, Snorlax never had the issue of 4 moves only, and basically spammed 7-8 moves until sth. worked. He's clearly one of Ash's stronger Pokemon, but Goodra is just stronger imo

it defeated Tierno basically on its own=so i guess pikachu holding off both wartoble and raichu alone while goodra was charging its bide count as its 'own'

Goodra is strong=ties against shota's weakest poke,which said poke was 1 shotted in every battle it has been in.Your logic is flawless.

 

[Xenon Blue]

Did you even read what I wrote?

Obviously not

I read what you wrote.

Tying with a Slurpuff which has not shown to be very strong is nothing impressive. Yes it was a type disadvantage, but Snorlax had to face two fighting types against a frontier brain, which is much more impressive. Being able to put up a decent fight against Bisharp is ok, but the performance of Snorlax in the Johto league surpasses it overall by a mile. It took out a healthy Arcanine and Nidoqueen against Gary, as well as Hypno and Steelix against Harrison. He was never the fall guy and always created fall guys for the opposition. That's impressive.

 

[GLTSRY]

I read what you wrote.

Tying with a Slurpuff which has not shown to be very strong is nothing impressive. Yes it was a type disadvantage, but Snorlax had to face two fighting types against a frontier brain, which is much more impressive. Being able to put up a decent fight against Bisharp is ok, but the performance of Snorlax in the Johto league surpasses it overall by a mile. It took out a healthy Arcanine and Nidoqueen against Gary, as well as Hypno and Steelix against Harrison. He was never the fall guy and always created fall guys for the opposition. That's impressive.

Sorry, but Snorlax match in the Battle Frontier, where he had access to 6 moves, and somehow survived all those attacks despite its terrible defense (An heck, that's coming from a guy who finds the Anime's battle logic more logical than the game's) was just bs writing. Like I said, Snorlax is one of his strongest Pokemon, but the times where he was used ("1-shot-ko Johto League" and "Movepool belongs to the games Era") are far too different then nowadays, especially when Goodra's main problem is the 4 moves rule. One could say that Goodra is the modern Snorlax, but when regarding the times they were used, I'd go with Goodra.

Also I just want to point out that Snorlax just said "Nah" before the Orange League Final and didn't wake up, or just slept during his match with Harrison while waiting, whereas Goodra returned from the swamp, making him overall more reliable.

 

[Navin]

Sorry, but Snorlax match in the Battle Frontier, where he had access to 6 moves, and somehow survived all those attacks despite its terrible defense (An heck, that's coming from a guy who finds the Anime's battle logic more logical than the game's) was just bs writing. Like I said, Snorlax is one of his strongest Pokemon, but the times where he was used ("1-shot-ko Johto League" and "Movepool belongs to the games Era") are far too different then nowadays, especially when Goodra's main problem is the 4 moves rule. One could say that Goodra is the modern Snorlax, but when regarding the times they were used, I'd go with Goodra.

Also I just want to point out that Snorlax just said "Nah" before the Orange League Final and didn't wake up, or just slept during his match with Harrison while waiting, whereas Goodra returned from the swamp, making him overall more reliable.

Barney shouldn't even belong in the tier-2 group. Barney's main problem is being a stationary Bidemonster. Snorlax can tank even better, and can actually move. Don't forget that apart from the Johto feats, Snorlax also won Ash's match against Frontier Brain Greta, and IIRC won Ash's third round at the Sinnoh League.

 

[Soniman]

Barney shouldn't even belong in the tier-2 group. Barney's main problem is being a stationary Bidemonster. Snorlax can tank even better, and can actually move. Don't forget that apart from the Johto feats, Snorlax also won Ash's match against Frontier Brain Greta, and IIRC won Ash's third round at the Sinnoh League.

Also completely obliterated like half of Gary's team

 

[cam24t]

Snorlax, hands down. Probably in Ash's top six Pokemon. Top 8 for sure.

 

[dp045]

Within about 6-7 years when in the eighth generation since in Alola no gyms = no League.

 

[Alexander18]

I think Ash could reach the finals again but they might regress him to top 8 again unfortunately.

 

[GLTSRY]

Barney shouldn't even belong in the tier-2 group. Barney's main problem is being a stationary Bidemonster. Snorlax can tank even better, and can actually move. Don't forget that apart from the Johto feats, Snorlax also won Ash's match against Frontier Brain Greta, and IIRC won Ash's third round at the Sinnoh League.

Well, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. For me, Goodra drawing with just 1(!) move against a Slurpuff is more imressive than Snorlax using 6 moves against a Frontier Brain (which I mentioned earlier). Don't get me wrong, I love Snorlax, but Goodra is just stronger imo. It tanks better, has a deadly Bide and would've benefitted from not-so terrible match-ups, which Snorlax never had in this form (At least his attacks were working.)

All in all, times have chanegd, too, and it's difficult to compare them. It'd be easier if we saw a full match of Snorlax in the Sinnoh League, but well.

For me Ash's strongest Pokemon are like this:

Tier Arceus: Greninja
Tier 1: Charizard/Sceptile/Pikachu
Tier 1.5: Infernape/Goodra
Tier 2: Gliscor/Snorlax/Heracross/Krookodile/Hawlucha/Talonflame/Noivern/Glalie

And yeah, come at me for putting Noivern that high on the list - I'm ready!^^

 

[04n70n10]

Yeah I'm pretty upset and angry still with Ash's loss. Writers set him up perfectly to win it all and the ****ed up. I just can't think of how any other region after this will top the intensity and hype going into a league like Kalos did. We're pretty much always gonna have to assume for the worst. But if anything came out of this, it's me feeling that Ash won't ever win with just his normal regional teams. Remember when Ash told his team they were his best team? Nah well they wernt. At this point I don't see Ash coming this close ever again. However only way I see Ash winning at last his using his actual ultimate team that includes his reserves/powerhouses from past gens, which who knows if this will ever even happen. And no I wouldn't put goodra on that list, thing was awful in the league.. But seriously I'm still so sad that he lost and the feeling isn't gonna go away for a while..

Re-examinating the whole thing and past episodes, much of the built-up was and is for the upcoming Team Flare Arc, but only now things are more clear.

And afterall Ash have an huge progression, "finally we have a final" after all, and no trollbias.

Message for the future: I still think that Ash can continue his journey if he will win a league becouse winning a league is a step to becoming a pokemon master, something stated even near the end of XY before anistar gym match.
But we will have better odds when the league will be the real central plot.

In DP the real central plot was Paul not the league itself, in XYZ is Zygarde and the team flare plot, in BW is hard to say due to Team plasma vs Team Rocket cancellation an the consequential messing up of the plot lines.

 

[Navin]

Well, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. For me, Goodra drawing with just 1(!) move against a Slurpuff is more imressive than Snorlax using 6 moves against a Frontier Brain (which I mentioned earlier). Don't get me wrong, I love Snorlax, but Goodra is just stronger imo. It tanks better, has a deadly Bide and would've benefitted from not-so terrible match-ups, which Snorlax never had in this form (At least his attacks were working.)

1. Using 1 move doesn't make him more impressive. It makes him ultra restrictive. There's a reason why Barney struggled against speed demons like Heliolisk and Bisharp, because they could strike with impunity from all directions. Snorlax can actually move so that's not as much of an issue.

2. Snorlax is a better tank. Just rewatch VS FB Greta.

Tier Arceus: Greninja
Tier 1: Charizard/Sceptile/Pikachu
Tier 1.5: Infernape/Goodra
Tier 2: Gliscor/Snorlax/Heracross/Krookodile/Hawlucha/Talonflame/Noivern/Glalie

And yeah, come at me for putting Noivern that high on the list - I'm ready!^^

Glalie? Swellow? Bulbasaur? Kingler?

Barney, Smogonbird, and Lucha all being ranked way too high. It's more than just Mr. Big and Reliable being in tier-2.

 

[GLTSRY]

1. Using 1 move doesn't make him more impressive. It makes him ultra restrictive. There's a reason why Barney struggled against speed demons like Heliolisk and Bisharp, because they could strike with impunity from all directions. Snorlax can actually move so that's not as much of an issue.

2. Snorlax is a better tank. Just rewatch VS FB Greta.




Glalie? Swellow? Bulbasaur? Kingler?

Barney, Smogonbird, and Lucha all being ranked way too high. It's more than just Mr. Big and Reliable being in tier-2.

It's Ash's fault to use him against fast opponents. It's like trying to watch TV with a microwave, sure, it'll entertain you for a while, but it's not what it was intended for.
Goodra for me is a better tank, absorbing all that super effective moves in the league and the tons of damage against Citron. Snorlax is a very good tank, partly because of the battle in the BF, but it was a pretty badly written if a Pokemon with such low defense can tank that many super effective moves. Yeah, I know, it proves it's stamina, but even ZardX resisting all those attacks in the final made more sense.
I mean, at the very end we both agree that Snorlax is strong.

Glalie is on my list, we never saw that much of Kingler (the last time it was knocked out by Misty's Psyduck), you're right with Bulba, belongs to T2, and Swellow is 2.5

Hawlucha pwned a Mega on its own and is a fairy slayer, Talonflame was Ash's main Gym Pokemon and always delivered, even against Moltres, and Noivern performed well against Zapdos and drew with a Salamence, before going down against a Pokemon it was 4x weak to.

 

[Xenon Blue]

For me Ash's strongest Pokemon are like this:

Tier Arceus: Greninja
Tier 1: Charizard/Sceptile/Pikachu
Tier 1.5: Infernape/Goodra
Tier 2: Gliscor/Snorlax/Heracross/Krookodile/Hawlucha/Talonflame/Noivern/Glalie

And yeah, come at me for putting Noivern that high on the list - I'm ready!^^

Lol you've got to be kidding me. You are entitled to your own opinion, that is correct. However, msot people would rank something like this:

Tier 1: Greninja, Pikachu, Charizard, Infernape, Snorlax, Sceptile
Tier 2: Swellow, Glalie, Heracross, Krookodile, Bulbasaur, Gliscor
Tier 3: Pignite, Kingler, Gible, Hawlucha, Staraptor, Squirtle, Talonflame, Quilava, Leavanny, Donphan