I think it's very unlikely that gyms will be in this game, since we have lots of evidences against its presence: the leaks, it doesn't seem like there are gyms anywhere on the map and the absence of advertisement about it.
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How can ash reach the finals ever again?
- Thread starter Acrobatics
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I think it's very unlikely that gyms will be in this game, since we have lots of evidences against its presence: the leaks, it doesn't seem like there are gyms anywhere on the map and the absence of advertisement about it.
AuraChannelerChris
Easygoing Luxray.
To answer the thread's question...
When we see ahead of time we won't get to see one single proper 1-on-1 or 3-on-3 shown for him.
When we see ahead of time we won't get to see one single proper 1-on-1 or 3-on-3 shown for him.
Genaller
Silver Soul
Very High Tier 1: Ash-Greninja
High Tier 1: Pikachu, Charizard
Mid Tier 1: Blaze Infernape, Sceptile
Low Tier 1: Snorlax, Infernape, Greninja
High Tier 2: Krookodile, Heracross, Bulbasaur, Swellow
Mid Tier 2: Glalie, Kingler
Low Tier 2: Gliscor, Hawlucha
High Tier 3: Squirtle, Gible, Pignite, Talonflame
Mid Tier 3: Quilava, Corphish, Staraptor, Buizel
Low Tier 3: Torterra, Goodra
High Tier 4: Tauros, Bayleef, Donphan, Noivern
Mid Tier 4: Noctowl, Leavanny
Low Tier 4: Torkoal, Palpitoad
High Tier 5: Muk, Totodile, Boldore
Mid Tier 5: Snivy, Unfezzant
Low Tier 5: Oshawott, Scraggy
IMO
High Tier 1: Pikachu, Charizard
Mid Tier 1: Blaze Infernape, Sceptile
Low Tier 1: Snorlax, Infernape, Greninja
High Tier 2: Krookodile, Heracross, Bulbasaur, Swellow
Mid Tier 2: Glalie, Kingler
Low Tier 2: Gliscor, Hawlucha
High Tier 3: Squirtle, Gible, Pignite, Talonflame
Mid Tier 3: Quilava, Corphish, Staraptor, Buizel
Low Tier 3: Torterra, Goodra
High Tier 4: Tauros, Bayleef, Donphan, Noivern
Mid Tier 4: Noctowl, Leavanny
Low Tier 4: Torkoal, Palpitoad
High Tier 5: Muk, Totodile, Boldore
Mid Tier 5: Snivy, Unfezzant
Low Tier 5: Oshawott, Scraggy
IMO
Xenon Blue
No Hard Feelings
Seems about right. Only disagreement I guess is Noctowl I feel like should be ranked higher. Otherwise though pretty accurate.
Genaller
Silver Soul
Thanks!! and I guess one could make a good argument for Noctowl being High Tier 4, when looking at its battle against Morty, as well as its improved move set and solid performance against Conway.
I have to say that I wouldn't put Ash-Greninja above Charizard or Sceptile just yet. He doesn't have the feats to back that up while the other two are confirmed to have beaten provenly strong Legendary Pokémon. Had Ash-Greninja beaten Mega Charizard X, I'd be willing to do so, but the fact that he didn't tells me that he still has a long way to go since Megas are not proven to be in the same category as Legendaries, given how Astrid's Mega Absol lost to Hawlucha, while even imperfect Ash-Greninja got slaughtered by Wulfric's Avalugg while giving Diantha's Mega Gardevoir a run, which tells me more about Diantha's weakness than Ash-Greninja's strength.
GLTSRY
Sorry not sorry for my smugness
Kingler over Gliscor, Hawlucha, Tflame, Torterra and Goodra?
Pignite over Staraptor, Torterra, Goodra and Noctowl?
Swellow High Tier 2?
Noivern under Corphish and Buizel?
This list clearly doesn't take into account who the opponents were, and just concentrates on the win/loss ratio...
Greneuliest808
Future Graduate
Give Ash-Greninja the ultimate test by going through 10 trials of Mega Evolved Pokemon AND fight legendaries. Who likes the sound of that?
Xenon Blue
No Hard Feelings
Against Diantha I believe she was not going all-out, as she did say "use full-power!" when Team Rocket interrupted, so IKUZEfrog was not really winning against Diantha's M-Gardevoir. It was giving M-Gardevoir who was holding back its power a hard time.
Hauteclaire
Well-Known Member
*raises a hand*
AuraChannelerChris
Easygoing Luxray.
And to add fuel the shippers, Serena will keep handing water bottles to her hopeless crush.
Hey, it worked wonders for Mairin.
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Greneuliest808
Future Graduate
That is an added bonus in addition to my proposed ultimate test.
Xenon Blue
No Hard Feelings
That could happen and IKUZEfrog could perform well to prove itself. However with the information we have currently it's not stronger than Ash's other Ace. Until we see IKUZEfrog put up impressive results I'm not putting him any higher than any of Ash's other ace.
Greneuliest808
Future Graduate
Yeah, we need to see more of Ash-Greninja performing well if it wants to be one of Ash's elite ace. Right now, I would put it below Pikachu, Charizard, and Sceptile, and it would barely edge Infernape.
Xenon Blue
No Hard Feelings
Kingler managed to sweep a person who got into the Indigo league, so that alone makes it really impressive.
Swellow was the MVP from Ash's side vs Katie and Tyson, both of who are really good trainers. It also managed to take out Tucker alongside Corphish.
Noivern has not really done much to prove it's better than Tier 4. Corphish is consistent and did well against Frontier Brains (Tucker, Anabel). Buizel took out Paul's Gastrodon in a convincing way, even though Paul was not planning to preserve Gastrodon.
Gliscor, despite taking out Paul's Drapion, has not done enough to escape low tier 2. However the potential for it is high after it's training so ranking it above Kingler is acceptable
Hawlucha did take out a M-Absol... in a battle that was not shown fully. Again, alongside Talonflame it didn't do enough to claim a spot higher than they are.
Torterra has failed to register a win so far. His opponents have all been tough, but still he didn't show anything that make him deserve a higher spot
Goodra you can look at my other post.
I didn't watch much of BW, so I don't know if Pignite really deserves that spot, but seeing from his performances I did see (vs Cameron), he seems to be reliable. However, he could easily go up or down.
Staraptor is very consistent, but hasn't done anything too big to claim a higher spot. The only big accomplishment is vs Weavile
Noctowl I agree should be higher, although I'm not sure if he should be higher than Pignite is.
Where's Maldread when I need him.
Genaller
Silver Soul
That's a fair argument, though the Avalugg loss isn't a very good point, since the Ash Greninja mode's power is heavily dependent on Ash's state of mind, and Ash clearly wasn't in his best state mentally, so the Form's power boost was either ineffective or could have actually made Greninja weaker at that point, since him and Ash weren't on the same page at that point (Greninja values love above all else, whereas Ash was prioritizing strength at that point). Regarding Diantha, I believe had the battle between AG and Mega Gardevoir continued, the latter would have won, but at the same time the fact that AG forced Diantha to ME and made her change her attitude towards the battle still speaks volumes for me. Diantha doesn't utilize ME unless she has to with Pikachu's battle being a prime example. I think Charizard and Sceptile would give base Gardevoir a much more competitive fight than base Greninja did, though I don't feel that they'd force Diantha to use ME. I would say that Ash's Charizard is slightly better than Alan's base Charizard, but wouldn't be able to fight MC X as competitively as AG, since let's remember that MC X is basically somewhere between E4 and Champion lvl by the end of ME ACT 4, since it took out an E4's Mega Ace Pokemon. The loss against Mega Blastoise and the inferior portrail to Mega Metagross can't be used as counter points, since we know Alan undergoes intense training between ME Act 3 and Act 4 and him being able to beat an E4 showcases the results of that training. I guess we'll have to wait and see how AG fares against potential opponents like Mega Red Gyarados, Mega Houndoom (if Malva openly admits to being TF) and even Zygarde/Perfect Zygarde. I think anyone of those matchups in the TF arc would allow us to draw a better conclusion on how AG stacks up to Ash's Pre-Kalos TOP 5. It also seems as though there might be a potential re-match with MC X, which although wouldn't redeem the KL result, could redeem AG. I just feel as though if Ash were to ever use his best team, AG would basically be the Mega, which are usually considered as the Ace Pokemon in most teams. Though I will fully admit that if Charizard and Sceptile ever gained the ability to ME, then they'd be stronger than AG as it is now.
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Alexander18
Dragon Pokemon fan
I don't think we would have to wait years for Ash to reach the finals. The writers could have him go to the finals again anytime they want in my opinion. Ash would have won if he used his best team that has the strongest pokemon from previous regions.
Genaller
Silver Soul
Trust me if I was just taking win/loss ratio into account, Sceptile and Heracross would be ranked considerably lower and Corphish would be ranked much higher. Also there are Pokemon like Goodra and Bayleef that I really enjoyed in the anime and would love to put higher, but they haven't objectively displayed the feats to warrant it. Regarding Pignite, I will state that I found the Cameron battle to be atrocious; however, Pignite came out looking really strong from that battle by beating Hydreigon. Eventhough Hydreigon had taken prior damage, I feel as though Pignite would still beat it in a 1 vs 1 battle, since even after that it still had enough in the tank to beat Ferrathorn (not that impressive, but still a win) and actually tanked Samarout's Hydro Cannon before falling to Aqua Jet. This in addition to all the hits it withstood from Hydreigon really speak well for its durability. Excluding the Cameron battle I would say Pignite is on par with Quilava, so you could rank him Mid Tier 3, if you don't consider the Cameron performance to be impressive. It was also able to solo an Emboar and Heatmor at the same time, but I would take that win with a grain of salt, since Unova has a bad habit of super powering Pokemon right after they evolve and then nerfing them afterwards. Dr.LazyEyes covered most of your other issues. I'd be happy to explain any of my choices to those who want a constructive discussion.
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Navin
MALDREAD
You handled it swimmingly.
I only brought up the tier concept several years ago to make it easier to 'rank' the Pokemon since it's easier than a straight #1-30+ ranking. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But many people would agree with this list with a few changes here and there:
There's no ranking within the tiers (that's the whole point). The newly added Kalos Pokemon are in bold.
Tier 1:
Charizard / (Ash)-Greninja / Pikachu / Sceptile / (Blaze) Infernape / Snorlax
Tier 2:
Swellow / Glalie / Gliscor / Bulbasaur / Krookodile / Heracross / Kingler
Tier 3:
Gible / Torterra / Talonflame / Hawlucha / Corphish / Squirtle / Pignite / Buizel / Goodra / Staraptor / Quilava
Tier 4:
Noivern / Noctowl / Tauros / Leavanny / Bayleef / Donphan / Palpitoad / Torkoal
Tier 5:
Muk / Snivy / Boldore / Oshawott / Unfezant / Scraggy / Totodile
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AuraChannelerChris
Easygoing Luxray.
Think. Just think. Goodra is Gible level. Gible would tear people apart if he had evolved further.
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