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How can Journeys improve on its criticisms?

Locormus

Can we please get the older, old forum back?
So complaints about offscreen progress, inconsistent development pace, imbalanced screentime, episodic narratives are childish backlash while saying a series sucked for doing a concept you dont like isnt childish? Sure.

Not surprised, shitting on SM in a thread made to encourage positivity by contemplating how Journeys can and has the potential to improve on its criticisms. These same people call me a SM fanboy lmao, not my fault you cant stop bringing it up on unrelated stuff, id love to discuss all the other stuff i love about anipoke and Pokemon in general but they just cant stop bringing it up in unrelated stuff.

90% of the criticism is about Goh as a character and his goal - and yes, it's undeserved because people don't like his concept. That's the entire reason why I brought up SM-example. Which by all means was a cynical mirror.

I was simply told not to watch, because apparently I was the problem and the show was fine. Fine. I only watched sporadic episodes. Then I watched the entire series with my kid on Netflix - and I stand by my point. I still don't like it. Different strokes for different blokes, but you didn't see me whine about every little thing. Which by all means, yes, is childish.

There are indeed a few potentially valid criticisms but I don't think there's such an excessive problem to start a fanbased workgroup to try and 'fix' things.
1. - Offscreen progress: I have no issue with this - unless it's something like a capture, evolution or a critical move development (like Gible+DracoMeteor/Scraggy+FocusBlast). I don't care about "missing out" on Ash blasting lower tier battles, because I know how these things work through the racing games that I play.. When I start in a multiplayer season, I can casually jump from rank 16000 to 11000 in one race, because I've got better material/skill. It's the boring part. You need infinitely more time to rank up through top10%, because the material/skill-level curve flattens. That's the part where Ash is currently getting to. But since there's obviously TONS of Goh focus (the mostheared complaint), this MUST mean that Ash screentime is getting screwed and a lot is left unscreen. So this criticism is likely anti-Goh-influenced.

2. - Inconsistent development pace: Is this about Ash's rankjump or Goh catching a Suicune "before Ash caught a Legendary"? Because if so, that's yet again at its core bitterness towards Goh.

3. - Imbalanced screentime: See point one. Goh deserves his screentime at this point moreso then we need to see Ash fighting low-tiered plebs. I'm an Ash-fan. All I want is a bit more from his team, but I'm sure we'll get to it once the more important battles get here.

4. - Episodic narrative: According to Dephender this is an intentional choice, influenced by the timeslot changes. Meaning: Pointless to argue.

Oh, 3 out of 4 can be distilled to the current rampant anti-Goh sentiment.

I never called you a fanboy and I'm not shitting on SM by any means by mentioning one thing I didn't like. Expressing dislike =/= shitting on. The thing I disliked most just happened to be the most visible change from the norm.

Also, you brought up SM in your opening post. If you think it's unrelated, don't bring it up yourself.
 
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FatBigachu

Well-Known Member
It is no longer possible to improve anything for them. They wanted to change everything except the main face of anime and that's the real problem. Sadly, but yes Ash is the real problem right now.
 

ShinyCharyZard

Too old for your rubbish..
It is no longer possible to improve anything for them. They wanted to change everything except the main face of anime and that's the real problem. Sadly, but yes Ash is the real problem right now.
I fail to see how Ash is the real problem when he's been left to fade into the background in favour of a lesser character. If anything, a companion taking away from the main characters goal and journey is the real problem..
 

Red and Blue

Well-Known Member
I fail to see how Ash is the real problem when he's been left to fade into the background in favour of a lesser character. If anything, a companion taking away from the main characters goal and journey is the real problem..
Go isn't just a companion though. He was advertised as a protagonist on the same footing as Ash. That's probably why he could end up with all three of the current starters

Though I agree that the focus between boys sides more with Go most of the time
 
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Mr.Munchlax

Great Ball Rank Trainer
I think the reason they tend to avoid doubles is because it makes animation more complicated and expensive. They can get away with quick TR showdowns or something like the Zapdos "raid" but proper doubles full of strategies and movements? I have my doubts, honestly
After watching Shirobako, I realized how difficult it is to handle stuff for an anime episode like finding directors of animation, getting key animators for complicated & detail-oriented scenes, and CG effects, all within a time frame to make sure the episode ends on time on top of their regular production cycle. So unless they want to pull something a little easier to animate like Thunder Armor, they're probably better off saving their budget for a double battle against Raihan
 
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Evstike

Take me back to peak pokemon
I think the reason they tend to avoid doubles is because it makes animation more complicated and expensive. They can get away with quick TR showdowns or something like the Zapdos "raid" but proper doubles full of strategies and movements? I have my doubts, honestly
They could easily do it if they didn't waste their best animators on filler episodes.
 

FatBigachu

Well-Known Member
I fail to see how Ash is the real problem when he's been left to fade into the background in favour of a lesser character. If anything, a companion taking away from the main characters goal and journey is the real problem..

People are making most of their criticism by comparing the old format with the new format, and Ash is the key figure representing the old format. If they had bid farewell to Ash and announced the beginning of a new era when they decided to change everything at JN, we wouldn't see half of the criticism today.

-When Goh catch his second legendary, people will criticise by saying how the hell Ash didn't catch a legendary all these years.
-When Goh catch a good pokemon annoyingly, people will criticise by saying why Ash just didn't throw the ball and catch it like Goh etc.

There's no escape from this kind of criticism and the thing is they are right to criticise this cuz while Ash is there you can not expect people completely accept new things easily.
 

Gamzee Makara

Flirtin' With Disaster
"Deku developed too quickly! He is learning All-Might's moves too quickly!"
"Where is the focus in Dragon Ball Super on Yaijirobe?"
"We need more Vivi in this arc! I'm done with all the newer Straw Hat focus"
"Where is the "How the Rower got his job" arc?!"
Do you see what these "criticisms" look and feel like when transplanted onto other anime's equivalents?

And just because an echo chambers echoes validation, doesn't mean criticisms are validated.

You want to fix the anime?

Stop playing Pokémon Go and lower PokéCoin sales. Stop playing romhacks, fangames, Showdown and mods. Stop asking for all past content all the time.

Discourage Goh by lowering sales of the reason for the season.

Stop doing things that invalidate your concerns on the corporate end.

If you will not, then nothing will change.
 

Morax

King of heroes
I sometimes get the feeling that I am watching Chu Chu Train with how happy go lucky the plots are.
To be fair you could make the same argument for Sun and Moon. Besides stoutland and Mallow mommy episodes the season severly lacked any sort of seriousness to it but that's the direction they decided to go after XY. Journeys is just an extension of SM and won't be doing nothing different. Let's hope they go full seinen/shounen after this one.
 

Pokegirl Fan~

Liko>>>>>Ash
To be fair you could make the same argument for Sun and Moon. Besides stoutland and Mallow mommy episodes the season severly lacked any sort of seriousness to it but that's the direction they decided to go after XY. Journeys is just an extension of SM and won't be doing nothing different. Let's hope they go full seinen/shounen after this one.
Meh shoujo is better, Ash should continue taking a backseat for the next female lead who is a battler.
 

Zoruagible

Lover of underrated characters
1. Proper screentime? Apart from constant Pikachu spamfest, Ash's is pretty decent apart from the Farfetch'd neglect. People constantly bitched and moaned about Lucario but it was clear as day he was getting attention as he was evolving, he's barely done much since DD. But Pikachu? He literally hijacked Bea(But people still blame Lucario, not Pikachu. Gen one favoritism obvious as always :rolleyes: ) and had Farfetch'd get sidelined until the episode where Ash faces random COTDsuch exciting!.
Oh and Farfetch'd gets the next Ash centered episode after yet another annoying Goh marathon, no Dragonite or Lucario or Gengar... or even Dracovish much as I hate that ugly abomination. I'm fine with his catches being fully evolved if they're just going to take up majority of screentime until they evolve.

2. Goh needs to go away
There is no fixing that Gary Stu. Oh look Ash has been a trainer for two decades and it took him one decade just to beat a legendary and it literally took his strongest Pokemon just to do it! Then here comes Goh continuing to **** on everything the anime was built upon, getting it with NO effort whatsoever and immediately downplaying everything lower on the food chain with a focus episode. A legendary catch should have been in the late part and most certainly after Ash got Kubfu or one of his own. Least with Ash or y'know, literally anyone else in existence.... the captures following a legendary still have potential to be amazing and not bland pieces of cardboard!
Even Team Rocket are more deserving of a legendary than this piece of trash, he makes the XY fanclub cast actually appealing right now

3. Chloe's fine lol They could easily keep her on for gen 9, Eevee will unfortunately always be relevant just like Pikachu and Charizard. Might as well keep her around to stop yet another Eevee joining(And bring back Ash's Charizard too while they're at it, I'm tired of all these Charizard main trainers!)
I've believed she'd stay(Unlike Goh and the PWC stuff cause gen 8 centered stuff) since practically the start but her getting Eevee basically sealed it in my eyes

4. The PWC definitely needs a VAST amount more focus, that's all anyone worth a damn cares about. Forget Goh and the trash app he's based upon, we want to see Ash fight the Galar gym leaders, Sinnoh BF, the various Elite Four members he wanted to battle but couldn't as they replied "See ya after you win the League, scrub", old fan favorites like Flannery, maybe a Sinnoh gym leader like Gardenia to promote the remakes(And a chance to show the TRio as characters again with James being overjoyed at seeing Cacnea again)
Seriously the series is about halfway done at this point and Ash has only faced ONE Galar gym leader out of TEN, and that's not counting Bede and Marnie. Unlike Best Wishes, he can literally challenge all of them. Raihan, understandable as he's the one apart from Kabu who it'd be foolish for Ash to successfully beat first. But where's Milo, Nessa, Alistair, etc?
Opal's showing up this week but Arceus knows when Ash and her will properly fight, hopefully Bede shows up soon too.

He needs another rival too cause having a type specialist as one honestly isn't exciting. One loves Gary and Paul's fights with Ash due to how diverse the battles could be, they owned Pokemon of various types and from all over and weren't limited to a singular typing. I'd say it's even worse than a type specialist companion
the Gallade guy appears to have potential as one, he's certainly likeable and it'd be cool to see the fabulous Mega Gallade finally get his due too. But I want Bede and Marnie to show up already, don't Hau them...

Earlier on in the series lack of returning characters was a big issue but so long as they keep it up, what with Iris and Gary being confirmed and Korrina appearing again, hopefully this continues and Gary appears a few more times to even out his long absence, Dawn's return is basically inevitable but I wanna see Cilan, Todd Snapp, Biff/Cassidy, Flannery, Meowth in Boots, Brandon, Brock, May and others come back too
Also anyone that does show up, including Korrina/Gary/Iris... they better showcase them either in the audience or watching Ash on TV when we get to the top 8. Bring that moment back! It was always exciting when the League was starting and you saw old characters like Misty and May watching and supporting Ash from afar, showing that they still existed and how strong their friendship was. It just stopped in BW... part of the reason the BW->SM Leagues were terrible

I'm still confident about the reserves appearing, G-Max Melmetal is most certainly going to be his. Incineroar still hasn't gotten to do jack. Ain't no way Ash isn't getting a Garchomp, SM felt like a test hopefully Gabite actually gets to pull his weight though as Gible coming back and evolving right away is fine but not doing it again so quickly. And the Kanto trinity is practically assured as well
I just want them to bump up Ash's capture rate, he doesn't need to be and shouldn't be catching things in the final year unless it is another Melmetal scenario. No Noiverns or Glalies, hurry them up so they've got plenty of time and don't get development shafted in favor of the old guns getting more glory
 

Morax

King of heroes
Oh look Ash has been a trainer for two decades and it took him one decade just to beat a legendary
Technically it only took a few months. It's not like ash isn't the chosen one. If we're talking about special treatment then Ash has been far more priviledged than Gou but of course he's the self-insert MC so let's ignore that.
 

Mr.Munchlax

Great Ball Rank Trainer
Meh shoujo is better, Ash should continue taking a backseat for the next female lead who is a battler.
While I like the direction the series has been taking, I have thought about how they could've made the home base Sonia's & Prof. Magnolia's home in the Galar region, with Ash still doing the PWC and Gloria (who takes Goh's place as the co-protagonist) takes on the Gym Challenge as Ash acts as her coach.

This could've been the next proper step in Ash's development since he'd take on a teacher role for a beginner as he challenges the big leagues, while Gloria shows parallels to Ash in OS by sharing his spunky personality, and her team consists of a Galarian homage to Ash's original team like G-Max Eevee, Corviknight, & the Galar starters (with a few pokemon she catches around the world rotating for her six slot such as Scyther, Golurk, Raichu, Arctozolt Suicune, etc.)
 
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Almighty Zard

He has returned.
Brock didn't "change" goals. He just upgraded it.

did he really have a goal to begin with before becoming a doctor?

I mean in gen 1 breeding wasn't even a game based thing, and come gen 2 when we found it what it actually entailed, there was no way Brock could've focused on it, since this is a kid's show.
 

Dephender

Gizakawayusu
Staff member
Moderator
I mean in gen 1 breeding wasn't even a game based thing, and come gen 2 when we found it what it actually entailed, there was no way Brock could've focused on it, since this is a kid's show.

What English speakers refer to as "breeding", ie that egg thing you do at Day Cares, is done by Day Care Workers, not Pokemon Breeders. They're two different things, English speakers just confuse them because the English terms get a bit muddled.

Takeshi wanted to be a Breeder, which has nothing to do with what you refer to when you say breeding.
 

Zweilous

Go-ing for Gold
Pokemon Breeders are probably like animal breeders IRL. As in, their job isn't about forcing animals to do it, but to administer to their needs and raise them well. This includes grooming and making sure they eat right, which are things Brock has been seen doing. Brock focused on maintaining and nurturing Pokemon.
 
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