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How can Journeys improve on its criticisms?

charinija

Pokemon Master
Goh staying in front of the screen this much damages the series.

More time should be given to Ash. More time should be allocated to Dracovish Gengar and Dragonite.

At Pwc, Ash's rank soared off screen. Is Pwc an ultimate goal?

So if you win the league is it the same as what you would be?

Uncertain questions should be answered. Ash should be the main character and center of focus again.
 

blizzardblaze

Comp. Battler Who loves The Anime
It's not just that - Ash should be a main character, undoubtedly with the dual protagonists, and now with Chloe, a trio
Go, Chloe, and Ash are our protagonists.
Chloe and Go have had more focus than Ash has, even though Chloe and Ash feel like side characters at times

PWC feels more like a natural next step. It's one of Ash's goals, but not the only one he can have. His dream is still to become a pokemon master. And to be quite frank, depending how you look at it, Ash might already be really close to being one
 

Blue Saturday

Unfurl your Blessed Wings!
I might catch up on this thread —- I didn’t read every single post but ultimately the answer I have to the “Journey’s criticism” is that it’s the norm. People are more or less only following Pokémon mainly week-by-week and thus it’s easy to look at the series under a microscope between the wait and of course harping on dislikes rather than likes is easy to do. I think that’s the case for any series —- someone that doesn’t like Gou’s catches or feels like he’s taking something from Satoshi didn’t like it in the first Raid Battle episode so why would they like it with Sarunori or Suicune or whatever?

I feel like much of this boils down to people being unhappy with Satoshi as a character. Gou being a protagonist highlights that. You can do anything with a fresh and free character like Gou because he isn’t confined to a set appearance, personality or style. You can have Gou screwup and act like a jerk and learn, you can have Gou with a past that’s very explorative, you can have Gou with any interest or knowledge level because he isn’t confined to anything. If Gou wants to trade with a Bug specialist or train with a Steel specialist it’s not contradicting to the character’s establishment.

I think that in turn highlights just how tired people might be of Satoshi’s role. Not Satoshi himself—but his role. This is why I wasn’t so fond of these fully-evolved or super fast developmental arc. catches. When there’s no ongoing narrative with battles —rival, Pokémon training, rematch, etc. surrounding Satoshi there isn’t much to do with him? He gets stuff like the Kamonegi episode but I do get the feeling it’s more than that? People seem to want character like things; like him meeting and bonding with Kid!Kukui or helping Dia save his world?

You can make those fancy character development/confrontation episodes like with Pikachu running off but they come off as forced/OOC because it goes against previously established developments for the character. Satoshi is a STATIC character, he isn’t meant to have major character shifts and changes. The best you’ll get is him bouncing off other more interesting and varied characters. PM doesn’t have many characters period. We have Gou/Satoshi most episodes.

He doesn’t really have a dynamic with Koharu—he wouldn’t really want to nor try to catch some random legendary according to past lore. You can give him more cool catches but will that be enough? He’s got it all. Super popular Kanto Pokémon, Lucario, some recent battling and training but is that really enough? If you want everything Gou has for Satoshi than you don’t want Satoshi as a protagonist anymore. I really do think Gou’s presence as a true equal protagonist puts a spotlight on how many might just feel about Satoshi—-only in PM he doesn’t have to simple title of main character/chosen one/End-All Be-All (or other character dynamics) covering that facade of being a mostly fixed/changeless character.


It does sound like many want a repeat of XY (that’s not a potshot at XY fanatics) where Satoshi is undoubtedly the best and most loved and praised. He’s undeniably in the right most of the time. He’s without a shadow of a doubt #1 and above 99% of people around him. I really don’t want that, he’s not treated terribly at all in PM he’s just not idealized. He loses to Saito and struggles and has to be validated and reconsider his approach early on. He’s has his gag-like faces and somewhat of a wise guy at times. Characters are shown being somewhat off-put by him (Koharu’s weirdness, Saito doesn’t remember him, Gou argues with him, Kamonegi doesn’t seem to give a crap about him, etc.) that being said I find his personality and self likable and mostly fine this saga. I really think the complaining about him being treated badly is superficial and power-hunger over Gou’s successes or shine than anything real.


Most of these criticisms supposedly about Satoshi’s character tail back to Gou anyway so it makes it hard for me to take any of it all that seriously lol people don’t wanna throw criticism at Satoshi directly but the writing around him. As if removing Gou would fix his mostly static character and Pokémon handling this saga. That’s just not fair criticism—just frustration and needing someone to take it out on. I can find 10+ things I enjoy about him in PM—if you can’t then maybe you’re tired of him? Or Pokémon anime? Or need to find more content or fandoms to focus on?
 
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SerGoldenhandtheJust

Deluded Dreamer
I might catch up on this thread —- I didn’t read every single post but ultimately the answer I have to the “Journey’s criticism” is that it’s the norm. People are more or less only following Pokémon mainly week-by-week and thus it’s easy to look at the series under a microscope between the wait and of course harping on dislikes rather than likes is easy to do. I think that’s the case for any series —- someone that doesn’t like Gou’s catches or feels like he’s taking something from Satoshi didn’t like it in the first Raid Battle episode so why would they like it with Sarunori or Suicune or whatever?

I feel like much of this boils down to people being unhappy with Satoshi as a character. Gou being a protagonist highlights that. You can do anything with a fresh and free character like Gou because he isn’t confined to a set appearance, personality or style. You can have Gou screwup and act like a jerk and learn, you can have Gou with a past that’s very explorative, you can have Gou with any interest or knowledge level because he isn’t confined to anything. If Gou wants to trade with a Bug specialist or train with a Steel specialist it’s not contradicting to the character’s establishment.

I think that in turn highlights just how tired people might be of Satoshi’s role. Not Satoshi himself—but his role. This is why I wasn’t so fond of these fully-evolved or super fast developmental arc. catches. When there’s no ongoing narrative with battles —rival, Pokémon training, rematch, etc. surrounding Satoshi there isn’t much to do with him? He gets stuff like the Kamonegi episode but I do get the feeling it’s more than that? People seem to want character like things; like him meeting and bonding with Kid!Kukui or helping Dia save his world?

You can make those fancy character development/confrontation episodes like with Pikachu running off but they come off as forced/OOC because it goes against previously established developments for the character. Satoshi is a STATIC character, he isn’t meant to have major character shifts and changes. The best you’ll get is him bouncing off other more interesting and varied characters. PM doesn’t have many characters period. We have Gou/Satoshi most episodes.

He doesn’t really have a dynamic with Koharu—he wouldn’t really want to nor try to catch some random legendary according to past lore. You can give him more cool catches but will that be enough? He’s got it all. Super popular Kanto Pokémon, Lucario, some recent battling and training but is that really enough? If you want everything Gou has for Satoshi than you don’t want Satoshi as a protagonist anymore. I really do think Gou’s presence as a true equal protagonist puts a spotlight on how many might just feel about Satoshi—-only in PM he doesn’t have to simple title of main character/chosen one/End-All Be-All (or other character dynamics) covering that facade of being a mostly fixed/changeless character.


It does sound like many want a repeat of XY (that’s not a potshot at XY fanatics) where Satoshi is undoubtedly the best and most loved and praised. He’s undeniably in the right most of the time. He’s without a shadow of a doubt #1 and above 99% of people around him. I really don’t want that, he’s not treated terribly at all in PM he’s just not idealized. He loses to Saito and struggles and has to be validated and reconsider his approach early on. He’s has his gag-like faces and somewhat of a wise guy at times. Characters are shown being somewhat off-put by him (Koharu’s weirdness, Saito doesn’t remember him, Gou argues with him, Kamonegi doesn’t seem to give a crap about him, etc.) that being said I find his personality and self likable and mostly fine this saga. I really think the complaining about him being treated badly is superficial and power-hunger over Gou’s successes or shine than anything real.


Most of these criticisms supposedly about Satoshi’s character tail back to Gou anyway so it makes it hard for me to take any of it all that seriously lol people don’t wanna throw criticism at Satoshi directly but the writing around him. As if removing Gou would fix his mostly static character and Pokémon handling this saga. That’s just not fair criticism—just frustration and needing someone to take it out on. I can find 10+ things I enjoy about him in PM—if you can’t then maybe you’re tired of him? Or Pokémon anime? Or need to find more content or fandoms to focus on?
Well written! I do find myself agreeing with many of the points you bring up and it is interesting to see it this way. I especially agree with your last statements. I don't have a problem with Ash's character per say, I even love his personality this season, I just want proper focus on PWC, his goal and more screentime for his mons. That's really the only issue I have with Ash in this series
 

Decidueye23

Well-Known Member
1) I was someone who was initially very excited about the format. I mean on paper it sounds fantatstic.

2) My only real issue with Goh as a character is I dont see him make an effort towards his goal. maybe because i was watching the anime for a long time, but just throwing a ball and getting something seemed very off to me. But then he was doing it with weaker mons so it was fine. As the series progressed, especially after the Zapdos episode, i had really hoped that he shows genuine effort into developing his pokemon more in order to reach his goal. i quite enjoy his flaws. But then again most other characters ash has travelled with have all had similar flaws and arcs. Being a beginner done. Understanding their pokemon done. Facing defeat done. Doing the right thing even if it sometime hampers their goal? done. alot of characters have done this. I mean there are only so many stories you can tell in a set world after 1000+ episodes. Adding a new face barely makes it fresh.

3) I do not think Ash is confined to anything, barring catching like Goh. I mean he was sent to an alternate dimension, talked sense into literal gods, and has pretty much done whatever he wanted. The problem is not about what they cant do with Ash. The problem is what they are doing. PWC in itself is a great goal. They can elaborate so much on it. even COTDs can be various opponents. His pokemon, dont get enough focus.

4) SM was not a very battle focused anime. However, it was still fun to watch because you had character interactions and pokemon interactions, while their goals were barely interesting ( i mean blowing the hugest baloon?) but the large cast, rivals and th earcs for each of those characters made them feel whole.

5) I can only speak for myself, but Goh's goal for me atleast can get quite boring. i would love to see him start putting some effort into developing stratergies, maybe use berries. Pokeballs. Right now i find the character quite boring and predictable.

6) The world tour format is barely explored. They can go to so many locations, that gives the sense of a different region, like go to the sevii islands. Or maybe go to the abyssal ruins. or Couriway town., and actually use the location for some fun ideas.

There was a time during XY when i was like hey i want to see more of serena. There was a time in SM where i was like i wish Mallow got some more focus. So its just not about wanting ash to take centre stage. Its just that he has some really cool new pokemon that can be explored so much more.

To improve, make Goh work more for his goal instead of handing him out a suicune like that. Make him put in more effort. But let it also take in its own time instead of making it feel like an intrusion, when say an Ash pokemon might be getting some long overdue focus. I had no problem with lucario and cinderace evolving at the same time. because both got plenty of focus and evolution felt correct. But i wouldnt wan that with G-Fetch'd because it is barely gotten any focus, so some individual screentime is necessary for it. and please focus some more on the PWC.
 

janejane6178

Kaleido Star FOREVER in my heart <3
Make TR more serious development episodes.. Like the one we had with Jessie and he crush in XY. Like tons of episodes we had in older series, that explains about TR's background or them bonding with their Pokemon.
They can do alot more stuff besides being comic relief
 

mystreon

the elder eevee
I'm happy with how it goes, they bring old colleagues from time to time and I find it funny as being a SM fanb*y you ask for more focus in the battles, but fair enough

The only thing that needs to improve is Goh, the rest is fine by Pokémon standards, I'm fine with the off-screen training, As long as it doesn't turn into another disaster like SM (except the league), I'm fine

#Dawn2021
SM was the best anime in the series, i get dif opinions, but to hat eit outright is absurd to me, it had such a great atmosphere, story, the charecters all felt great, it meshed some serious with the fun well, the feeling of family, all the trainers main mons, i loved it.

Highlights were mallows mom, stoutland, everything about team rocket, kukuis marriage and child, littens whole arc and just the atmosphere in general OH and the minior episode such a beautiful episode.

Why do my posts with image and a youtube video keep getting deleted, there not against the rules, you can even seer the preview, i dont get it?
 
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Dephender

Gizakawayusu
Staff member
Moderator
Why do my posts with image and a youtube video keep getting deleted, there not against the rules, you can even seer the preview, i dont get it?

Posting links to unauthorized uploads of video clips of the anime is absolutely 100% against the rules. Reposting things that have been deleted is also obviously against the rules, do you think these things get deleted by mistake or something?
 

mystreon

the elder eevee
Posting links to unauthorized uploads of video clips of the anime is absolutely 100% against the rules. Reposting things that have been deleted is also obviously against the rules, do you think these things get deleted by mistake or something?
I apologize, i just thought it was an internet or site fault, would it be ok for me to make a post showing the legal official upload and the image? i just wanted to show examples for my comment on SM.
 

Mirage707

TPC simping for mobile cash shop money since 2016.
Find writers and animators who can actually do a decent battle scene so we can stop with the boring lazy Goh-ry Stu episodes.
Stop shilling out for that Pokemon Go money. The concept of Pokemon Go does not make for a good series. Pokemon Masters would've been better if they went the mobile game route where trainers team up in double and triple battles, but Masters doesn't bring in the revenue like Go. Also this team can't write or animate a decent battle to save their life.
 

Evstike

Take me back to peak pokemon
Most of my issues have already been said (screentime & catching), so I'll write something a bit different.

This series seriously needs a story. Ash wants to beat Leon in the PWC and Goh wants to catch every Pokemon and then Mew. Now what? There's no driving force for their goals. They just do whatever when an opportunity arises, and when one doesn't, they goof around. With the gym challenge, Ash had to travel to each gym in order. We'd have new scenery, new characters and Pokemon, progression. Kinda like a Super Mario world where the castle is the gym. Now, there's no overarching plot or driving force. SM had this issue with Ash's goal, but when he did take on a trial, there was an arc to go with it. Even when there wasn't a trial, something was still going on. The closest thing we got was Gengar making its debut in JN011, a cameo in JN014, and then getting caught in JN016. It doesn't even have to be a plot that takes up the entire series, but just a series of arcs/plots that last for a few episodes each.

Another huge issue is the visuals. An ongoing show should look better than a show from 2013. The animation is choppy and boring, art is messy, designs are all over the place, and we barely get any interesting shots. All of the talent from XY and SM is gone. When we finally get a visually pleasing episode, it's only the quality of the average XY episode or an above average SM episode visually. Not only that, but the compositing and effects are poorly put together. Why are there no team updates in the openings? There were a few still images in OP2 that were easy to update. CHANGE THE ENDING PLEASE.
 

dman_dustin

Well-Known Member
I haven't really responded to this thread, well secondarily because no one wants me to, LMAO, but primarily because of things going on in my personal life, I've been stuck using my tablet for about 6 months, and that thing SUCKS, when it comes to writing things, you may have seen a higher number of mistakes in that time.

Now that I'm using my computer, there will hopefully be less mistakes.

I want to preface, before I get into my problems with the series is that this series will never be the worst series. I may dislike, even loathe a lot of the decisions being made, but it won't be the worst series. If primarily because Ash has Dragonite, Gengar, and Lucario and I feel like that's already vastly superior than a lot of the ending of the first series and the fifth series.

I also want to preface, I do not hate Go as a character. :eek: I know. My issues with Go are primarily the direction the series has taken his character and the issues I have with how Ash is treated. As for a friend, or traveling companion of Ash, Go is easily one of his best companions or up there. His friendship with Go is much more tight than any of his past companions. Comparatively I'd argue his relationship with Ash is not unlike Gon and Killua from Hunter X Hunter, with obvious exceptions to the drastic differences between the series.

So because of his relationship/friendship with Go, is also why this series will never be the worst.

Now that's out of the way, let's get into the thing you probably will want to ignore.....LOL. Also in spoiler tags, because it's a long post.


I personally think this series is not fixable. And by that I mean it's very unlikely to get any better than it is, that will make it an enjoyable satisfying series. I mean it took till the Alolan league to show us how well the Sun and Moon series barring extreme examples like the Litten capture episode.

But as I said there is literally nothing as a whole that could make it worse than say the horrendous series that is Best Wishes, which to clarify the only thing I really liked was Ash's Pokemon, though they didn't do anything. Cilan was okay, and Iris is my least favorite companion (but even so, I am looking forward to her appearance in the anime. I hate her character, doesn't mean they can't fix the character, or make her reappearance in the anime tolerable).

The reason why I think Journey's is not fixable is merely because it comes off as heavily "Too DAMN Little too DAMN Late" while you could argue, Sun and Moon would counteract that point, Sun and Moon had things going for it which is what made the ending so satisfying. Journeys on the other hand just doesn't remotely have the right structure to fix the issues that it has without it coming off as "GEEZ, fine, we'll fix our "stupidity"" and in a condescending way.

So let's go over my issues with the Journeys anime and why they cannot really be fixed because "Too Little Too Late"

1. The lack of proper Ash focus or more importantly his Pokemon- While I am willing to concede that Ash is a veteran and he could theoretically take a backseat, I fundamentally have to disagree for the one main reason. His Pokemon. Ash may have been here for nearly 25 years, but only his Pikachu has been here as long. Dragonite, Gengar, Lucario, Farfetch'd and Impidimp Dracovish are all "younger" to Go's character and even his Cinderace. Ash may not deserve the screen time and development, but his Pokemon certainly do.

Why it can't be fixed? Things like Riolu evolving into Lucario is a major reason why this can't be fixed. Riolu evolved before it could develop with Ash in a way that was satisfactory. While Lucario may do ridiculously cool things I can never forgive them for not giving Riolu and Ash the proper bonding episode that the two characters deserved. Instead we get a spoiled brat Pikachu, just because it would be "funny" and "touching" and as a result, I will always believe Ash's relationship with Aura Sphere Riolu will always vastly superior. I'm also not a fan of Lucario's personality, nor was I fan of Riolu's personality (though it was adorable a few times). Despite how much I despise Cameron as a rival, I do think his Riolu/Lucario were written better and were more fun than Ash's Riolu/Lucario. Only time will tell if Lucario will remain rabid and stoic or perhaps it'll learn to lighten up and end up being much better. I dread the Korrina Mega Lucario repeat with Ash's own Lucario if Ash gets a mega ring.

2. Go's undeserved screen time- I'm going to alter how I argue this now than in the past. I won't argue Go doesn't deserve focus and screen time, or that his captures were undeserved. Instead I'm going to argue about the writer's mentality on the subject. I fail to see why Go deserves to have more screen time and episodes devoted to capturing Pokemon, whereas a lot of Ash has his stuff being in the background or off screen. I fail to see why catching as a series staple is so damn more entertaining than battling. I'm not saying Go cannot have heavy plot capture episodes, but its nowhere near equal to Ash's Pokemon or his battles.

Why this can't be fixed? Go is a dual protagonist......for some reason, which means I highly doubt Go will ever truly be able to background character enough to more properly balance his screentime with Ash, I think we have to accept Go will just get more screen time and focus than Ash, especially since

3. Ash's Pokemon- This is a multifaceted problem. Ash doesn't really have good Pokemon, he has bad picks, Go will always get superior captures (because he's allowed to). Go caught a legendary first, even though Ash deserved one first, but apparently Ash can only ever be a battler of legendary. God forbid he get a decent one. And the final issue is that they will never get the proper screen time and development they deserve. As I said Riolu and Lucario prove this already.

Why this cannot be fixed: As for not having good Pokemon I'm calling out Farfetch'd and Dracovish, while my thoughts will be subjective, with Farfetch'd I think I have more objectivity here. I don't hate Ash's Farfetch'd, as I've always stated my problem is that it's a fighting type, and I absolutely despise that it was caught after Riolu. And my biggest issue with this is Impidimp. If you've seen the Koharu/Ponyta episode, you'll get a taste of why I wanted Ash with Impidimp (I still do but I'll be lucky if they decide to give him Morgrem), Impidimp personality wise would offer something extremely good on his team. Impidimp is so versatile you can literally give it any personality and it works. And why would getting Impidimp on his team after Riolu would that have been better than Farfetch'd, because Grimmsnarl is basically a good counterpart or even foil to to Lucario, for Impidimp and Riolu, Fighting covers Impidimp's dark typing whereas Impidimp wins out on fairy typing, then when it becomes a Lucario it also counterattacks Grimmsnarl due to its steel typing. Sure Lucario wouldn't have a steel type, but typing wise it does lose its weakness to fairy make both neutral to each other in terms of fighting and fairy type attacks. This works much better than Farfetch'd that only works simply because its a fighting type. But since Farfetch'd doesn't have an outrageous personality and is easily close to being similar to Lucario, I think Impidimp's outlandish potential personality also works to counter Riolu and Lucario's personality. While Morgrem and Grimmsnarl have less personality potential than Impidimp, I only cared about the Impidimp aspect, and then evolving it into a good strong Grimmsnarl, and just a reall cool typed Pokemon and just a badass Pokemon in general. On top of that, replacing Impidimp for Farfetch'd could set up for Ash getting Urshifu much better than NOW.

Dracovish? I just don't like it, but it doesn't really have any real problems, it's an 8th generation Pokemon. It is a water type. And while I'm not too happy about its dragon typing since I really don't want a 3rd dragon on the team if things go the way I expect. But had Ash had Impidimp, I could've lived with Dracovish. And now with Ash having 6 Pokemon, I just cannot imagine Ash getting anything good, and so I'm stuck with what I view as horrible choices. Even if Ash does get Impidimp it'll miss out of the whole Riolu dynamic and it'll feel like a Pokemon that definitely should've been caught first. So like I said at best they may give him Morgrem, and that's disappointing, acceptable because Grimmsnarl, but disappointing because it's unlikely Morgrem will have that great of a personality like Impidimp. And who knows if Ash will get any more Pokemon.

As for the legendary, that cannot be fixed because well Ash won't have the honor of having a legendary Pokemon first, and yes I'm still bitter that Go got Suicune when it could've been any other Pokemon and I would've been fine. Zapdos would've made more sense. I just don't know why they forced Suicune on Go over say Ash getting Suicune for example. At best Ash may get Latias, but that's a 3rd dragon, and I absolutely abhor the idea of Ash getting Urshifu since it will likely have to be the Fighting/Dark type and I hate that style (well if only because fairy types demolish it and fighting/water is a more interesting style for Urshifu and is better typing wise) as well as it not being much of a legendary in comparison to Go's Suicune and as much I would despise it I would prefer 3 dragon types or 3 fighting types. Shame that it couldn't be Garchomp, because as nice as Latias is, I would've liked Gible to come back and fully evolve, and assuming it does, that's FOUR dragon types, although only 3 added dragon types, as he already has a Gible. But damn, Iris must be crying in her sleep.

4. Ash's Pokemon in terms of the current generation- I wanted to separate this as its own thing, because of how confused I am about the situation. One thing I will never understand about how the series work, with exception to 2nd and 5th generation for obvious reasons which I will explain but first the issue I have is, why isn't Ash being used to primarily market a generation? Usually that is the case because well Ash tends to always have more Pokemon than his companions but they still want to market the current generation with the likes of May, Dawn, etc, etc, etc. And I don't know how that makes sense, unless they are actual game characters with game canon Pokemon. Shouldn't they focus on past generation Pokemon whereas Ash himself focuses on the current generation? 2nd Generation is excused because Misty and Brock are the same traveling companions and literally they were there for 1st generation they literally could only focus on 2nd generation Pokemon if even that. And 5th generation is also excluded because they literally had no choice to focus on 5th generation Pokemon since there was only 5th generation in the actual games. Kind of like a prelude to 8th generation but without deleting the Pokemon, just merely locking their data out for 5th gen priortization. The reason this is an issue is because Go is more marketing the 8th generation more than Ash is. So why should Go get all three 9th generation Pokemon to focus on, when he literally is the exact definition of someone who should be focusing on PAST generation Pokemon.

Why this cannot be fixed? While Ash can still get more 8th generation Pokemon, since they don't want to repeat 5th generation, it's unlikely he's going to get a lot more Pokemon if anything happens, and at the end of the day, I guess they just don't think Ash deserves to have 8th generation Pokemon if he's only going to have Sirfetch'd, Dracovish and maybe one more. And while I do understand people's problems with Ash always having the starters, I think people fail to understand only Ash can truly make a starter shine if its allowed to reach its final form more than any other companion. The exception is Torterra which I think only failed because they LITERALLY refused to allow Ash to use it in a battle where it could win. Like holy crap just let it battle someone's female Hippowdon not named Bertha and let him win. Or just have a rematch with Brandon's Regirock and let Torterra win.

As for the starters, obviously Ash will not have a Cinderace or Inteleon, and it's extremely unlikely he's getting Rillaboom, which I didn't want, since Ash isn't getting Inteleon. And sure I do like Grimmsnarl, Frosmoth, Corviknight, Toxtricity, and at least Grimmsnarl over Inteleon, I still think Ash deserved Inteleon more than not deserving of Inteleon. Go's want of getting Sobble was stupid, and I absolutely hate having been trolled by a preview, where Ash ends up getting a stupid regional form variant, just to justify Go getting Sobble, which again is absolutely STUPID since he shouldn't be focusing on 8th generation as much as Ash should since who knows if Ash will ever get to properly represent the 8th generation. Especially if this ends up being Ash's last generation

5. Ash's last series? The major reason as to why this series is unfixable is simply because what if it is Ash's last series. Unless they use my idea of what to use Ash for in the fan fiction continuation, I just cannot imagine how they will use canon Ash in 9th generation and onward. And so I feel more likely will either get the horrifying Ash reboot (alternate canon which would scare me, since so long old Ash), or they outright replace the character with some other Pikachu wielding trainer. And if we use this series a "send off" to the Ash we all know and love (well for some of us). It's a really, really, crappy send off, especially since the focus should solely be on Ash, and not Go, Go would have to a background character. And for that it will always be a disappointing thing for me, Journeys if this is Ash's last series, it'll never be able to reach a satisfying and happy conclusion because of the insane focus on Go and that, for me as an Ash fan, as Ash is my favorite character, it just will never be okay.

As you can tell, there's a reason why I didn't want to use my tablet that doesn't type very well, since most of that will be ignored (as should be) we can focus on this last bit.

But I want to add one final thing. When I say unfixable, I mean the series will never be a really good or great series, one of the bests, for the reasons I listed in the spoiler (click at your own risk).

HOWEVER that doesn't mean things cannot be improved on, make the series more agreeable, but it will never live to the potential that the series could have had, and I don't think that's ever going to be possible because too little too late, and some things are just permanently set in stone.. I've given up hope that I'll ever be happy about Ash's treatment in the series along with his Pokemon especially in comparison to how Go has been treated so far. But that's just me. Maybe you'll end up liking the series more than I do, and if you dislike or hate Ash maybe you can have hope that they'll end his character at the end. Rejoice.....I guess.
 

SerGoldenhandtheJust

Deluded Dreamer
I haven't really responded to this thread, well secondarily because no one wants me to, LMAO, but primarily because of things going on in my personal life, I've been stuck using my tablet for about 6 months, and that thing SUCKS, when it comes to writing things, you may have seen a higher number of mistakes in that time.

Now that I'm using my computer, there will hopefully be less mistakes.

I want to preface, before I get into my problems with the series is that this series will never be the worst series. I may dislike, even loathe a lot of the decisions being made, but it won't be the worst series. If primarily because Ash has Dragonite, Gengar, and Lucario and I feel like that's already vastly superior than a lot of the ending of the first series and the fifth series.

I also want to preface, I do not hate Go as a character. :eek: I know. My issues with Go are primarily the direction the series has taken his character and the issues I have with how Ash is treated. As for a friend, or traveling companion of Ash, Go is easily one of his best companions or up there. His friendship with Go is much more tight than any of his past companions. Comparatively I'd argue his relationship with Ash is not unlike Gon and Killua from Hunter X Hunter, with obvious exceptions to the drastic differences between the series.

So because of his relationship/friendship with Go, is also why this series will never be the worst.

Now that's out of the way, let's get into the thing you probably will want to ignore.....LOL. Also in spoiler tags, because it's a long post.


I personally think this series is not fixable. And by that I mean it's very unlikely to get any better than it is, that will make it an enjoyable satisfying series. I mean it took till the Alolan league to show us how well the Sun and Moon series barring extreme examples like the Litten capture episode.

But as I said there is literally nothing as a whole that could make it worse than say the horrendous series that is Best Wishes, which to clarify the only thing I really liked was Ash's Pokemon, though they didn't do anything. Cilan was okay, and Iris is my least favorite companion (but even so, I am looking forward to her appearance in the anime. I hate her character, doesn't mean they can't fix the character, or make her reappearance in the anime tolerable).

The reason why I think Journey's is not fixable is merely because it comes off as heavily "Too DAMN Little too DAMN Late" while you could argue, Sun and Moon would counteract that point, Sun and Moon had things going for it which is what made the ending so satisfying. Journeys on the other hand just doesn't remotely have the right structure to fix the issues that it has without it coming off as "GEEZ, fine, we'll fix our "stupidity"" and in a condescending way.

So let's go over my issues with the Journeys anime and why they cannot really be fixed because "Too Little Too Late"

1. The lack of proper Ash focus or more importantly his Pokemon- While I am willing to concede that Ash is a veteran and he could theoretically take a backseat, I fundamentally have to disagree for the one main reason. His Pokemon. Ash may have been here for nearly 25 years, but only his Pikachu has been here as long. Dragonite, Gengar, Lucario, Farfetch'd and Impidimp Dracovish are all "younger" to Go's character and even his Cinderace. Ash may not deserve the screen time and development, but his Pokemon certainly do.

Why it can't be fixed? Things like Riolu evolving into Lucario is a major reason why this can't be fixed. Riolu evolved before it could develop with Ash in a way that was satisfactory. While Lucario may do ridiculously cool things I can never forgive them for not giving Riolu and Ash the proper bonding episode that the two characters deserved. Instead we get a spoiled brat Pikachu, just because it would be "funny" and "touching" and as a result, I will always believe Ash's relationship with Aura Sphere Riolu will always vastly superior. I'm also not a fan of Lucario's personality, nor was I fan of Riolu's personality (though it was adorable a few times). Despite how much I despise Cameron as a rival, I do think his Riolu/Lucario were written better and were more fun than Ash's Riolu/Lucario. Only time will tell if Lucario will remain rabid and stoic or perhaps it'll learn to lighten up and end up being much better. I dread the Korrina Mega Lucario repeat with Ash's own Lucario if Ash gets a mega ring.

2. Go's undeserved screen time- I'm going to alter how I argue this now than in the past. I won't argue Go doesn't deserve focus and screen time, or that his captures were undeserved. Instead I'm going to argue about the writer's mentality on the subject. I fail to see why Go deserves to have more screen time and episodes devoted to capturing Pokemon, whereas a lot of Ash has his stuff being in the background or off screen. I fail to see why catching as a series staple is so damn more entertaining than battling. I'm not saying Go cannot have heavy plot capture episodes, but its nowhere near equal to Ash's Pokemon or his battles.

Why this can't be fixed? Go is a dual protagonist......for some reason, which means I highly doubt Go will ever truly be able to background character enough to more properly balance his screentime with Ash, I think we have to accept Go will just get more screen time and focus than Ash, especially since

3. Ash's Pokemon- This is a multifaceted problem. Ash doesn't really have good Pokemon, he has bad picks, Go will always get superior captures (because he's allowed to). Go caught a legendary first, even though Ash deserved one first, but apparently Ash can only ever be a battler of legendary. God forbid he get a decent one. And the final issue is that they will never get the proper screen time and development they deserve. As I said Riolu and Lucario prove this already.

Why this cannot be fixed: As for not having good Pokemon I'm calling out Farfetch'd and Dracovish, while my thoughts will be subjective, with Farfetch'd I think I have more objectivity here. I don't hate Ash's Farfetch'd, as I've always stated my problem is that it's a fighting type, and I absolutely despise that it was caught after Riolu. And my biggest issue with this is Impidimp. If you've seen the Koharu/Ponyta episode, you'll get a taste of why I wanted Ash with Impidimp (I still do but I'll be lucky if they decide to give him Morgrem), Impidimp personality wise would offer something extremely good on his team. Impidimp is so versatile you can literally give it any personality and it works. And why would getting Impidimp on his team after Riolu would that have been better than Farfetch'd, because Grimmsnarl is basically a good counterpart or even foil to to Lucario, for Impidimp and Riolu, Fighting covers Impidimp's dark typing whereas Impidimp wins out on fairy typing, then when it becomes a Lucario it also counterattacks Grimmsnarl due to its steel typing. Sure Lucario wouldn't have a steel type, but typing wise it does lose its weakness to fairy make both neutral to each other in terms of fighting and fairy type attacks. This works much better than Farfetch'd that only works simply because its a fighting type. But since Farfetch'd doesn't have an outrageous personality and is easily close to being similar to Lucario, I think Impidimp's outlandish potential personality also works to counter Riolu and Lucario's personality. While Morgrem and Grimmsnarl have less personality potential than Impidimp, I only cared about the Impidimp aspect, and then evolving it into a good strong Grimmsnarl, and just a reall cool typed Pokemon and just a badass Pokemon in general. On top of that, replacing Impidimp for Farfetch'd could set up for Ash getting Urshifu much better than NOW.

Dracovish? I just don't like it, but it doesn't really have any real problems, it's an 8th generation Pokemon. It is a water type. And while I'm not too happy about its dragon typing since I really don't want a 3rd dragon on the team if things go the way I expect. But had Ash had Impidimp, I could've lived with Dracovish. And now with Ash having 6 Pokemon, I just cannot imagine Ash getting anything good, and so I'm stuck with what I view as horrible choices. Even if Ash does get Impidimp it'll miss out of the whole Riolu dynamic and it'll feel like a Pokemon that definitely should've been caught first. So like I said at best they may give him Morgrem, and that's disappointing, acceptable because Grimmsnarl, but disappointing because it's unlikely Morgrem will have that great of a personality like Impidimp. And who knows if Ash will get any more Pokemon.

As for the legendary, that cannot be fixed because well Ash won't have the honor of having a legendary Pokemon first, and yes I'm still bitter that Go got Suicune when it could've been any other Pokemon and I would've been fine. Zapdos would've made more sense. I just don't know why they forced Suicune on Go over say Ash getting Suicune for example. At best Ash may get Latias, but that's a 3rd dragon, and I absolutely abhor the idea of Ash getting Urshifu since it will likely have to be the Fighting/Dark type and I hate that style (well if only because fairy types demolish it and fighting/water is a more interesting style for Urshifu and is better typing wise) as well as it not being much of a legendary in comparison to Go's Suicune and as much I would despise it I would prefer 3 dragon types or 3 fighting types. Shame that it couldn't be Garchomp, because as nice as Latias is, I would've liked Gible to come back and fully evolve, and assuming it does, that's FOUR dragon types, although only 3 added dragon types, as he already has a Gible. But damn, Iris must be crying in her sleep.

4. Ash's Pokemon in terms of the current generation- I wanted to separate this as its own thing, because of how confused I am about the situation. One thing I will never understand about how the series work, with exception to 2nd and 5th generation for obvious reasons which I will explain but first the issue I have is, why isn't Ash being used to primarily market a generation? Usually that is the case because well Ash tends to always have more Pokemon than his companions but they still want to market the current generation with the likes of May, Dawn, etc, etc, etc. And I don't know how that makes sense, unless they are actual game characters with game canon Pokemon. Shouldn't they focus on past generation Pokemon whereas Ash himself focuses on the current generation? 2nd Generation is excused because Misty and Brock are the same traveling companions and literally they were there for 1st generation they literally could only focus on 2nd generation Pokemon if even that. And 5th generation is also excluded because they literally had no choice to focus on 5th generation Pokemon since there was only 5th generation in the actual games. Kind of like a prelude to 8th generation but without deleting the Pokemon, just merely locking their data out for 5th gen priortization. The reason this is an issue is because Go is more marketing the 8th generation more than Ash is. So why should Go get all three 9th generation Pokemon to focus on, when he literally is the exact definition of someone who should be focusing on PAST generation Pokemon.

Why this cannot be fixed? While Ash can still get more 8th generation Pokemon, since they don't want to repeat 5th generation, it's unlikely he's going to get a lot more Pokemon if anything happens, and at the end of the day, I guess they just don't think Ash deserves to have 8th generation Pokemon if he's only going to have Sirfetch'd, Dracovish and maybe one more. And while I do understand people's problems with Ash always having the starters, I think people fail to understand only Ash can truly make a starter shine if its allowed to reach its final form more than any other companion. The exception is Torterra which I think only failed because they LITERALLY refused to allow Ash to use it in a battle where it could win. Like holy crap just let it battle someone's female Hippowdon not named Bertha and let him win. Or just have a rematch with Brandon's Regirock and let Torterra win.

As for the starters, obviously Ash will not have a Cinderace or Inteleon, and it's extremely unlikely he's getting Rillaboom, which I didn't want, since Ash isn't getting Inteleon. And sure I do like Grimmsnarl, Frosmoth, Corviknight, Toxtricity, and at least Grimmsnarl over Inteleon, I still think Ash deserved Inteleon more than not deserving of Inteleon. Go's want of getting Sobble was stupid, and I absolutely hate having been trolled by a preview, where Ash ends up getting a stupid regional form variant, just to justify Go getting Sobble, which again is absolutely STUPID since he shouldn't be focusing on 8th generation as much as Ash should since who knows if Ash will ever get to properly represent the 8th generation. Especially if this ends up being Ash's last generation

5. Ash's last series? The major reason as to why this series is unfixable is simply because what if it is Ash's last series. Unless they use my idea of what to use Ash for in the fan fiction continuation, I just cannot imagine how they will use canon Ash in 9th generation and onward. And so I feel more likely will either get the horrifying Ash reboot (alternate canon which would scare me, since so long old Ash), or they outright replace the character with some other Pikachu wielding trainer. And if we use this series a "send off" to the Ash we all know and love (well for some of us). It's a really, really, crappy send off, especially since the focus should solely be on Ash, and not Go, Go would have to a background character. And for that it will always be a disappointing thing for me, Journeys if this is Ash's last series, it'll never be able to reach a satisfying and happy conclusion because of the insane focus on Go and that, for me as an Ash fan, as Ash is my favorite character, it just will never be okay.

As you can tell, there's a reason why I didn't want to use my tablet that doesn't type very well, since most of that will be ignored (as should be) we can focus on this last bit.

But I want to add one final thing. When I say unfixable, I mean the series will never be a really good or great series, one of the bests, for the reasons I listed in the spoiler (click at your own risk).

HOWEVER that doesn't mean things cannot be improved on, make the series more agreeable, but it will never live to the potential that the series could have had, and I don't think that's ever going to be possible because too little too late, and some things are just permanently set in stone.. I've given up hope that I'll ever be happy about Ash's treatment in the series along with his Pokemon especially in comparison to how Go has been treated so far. But that's just me. Maybe you'll end up liking the series more than I do, and if you dislike or hate Ash maybe you can have hope that they'll end his character at the end. Rejoice.....I guess.
Don't sell yourself short bud, I did read what you wrote and it is well written. I heavily disagree on the Farfetch'd point, and ash only has 2 dragon types so far, which is the third? But besides that I agree with lots of ur points or atleast understand them. I still do think it could easily become one of the greats, it has time
 

dman_dustin

Well-Known Member
Don't sell yourself short bud, I did read what you wrote and it is well written. I heavily disagree on the Farfetch'd point, and ash only has 2 dragon types so far, which is the third? But besides that I agree with lots of ur points or atleast understand them. I still do think it could easily become one of the greats, it has time

I was referring to if he caught Latias.
 

Ultra Beast Lover

Well-Known Member
Also, no one's really struggled to learn a move for more than an episode. One of the things I liked in the past was watching the Pokemon struggle to learn a move. Sure, it'd get annoying with Pokemon like Gibble, but it'd give us another reason to watch the next episode. As for Ash's Pokemon, like everyone else said, they need more development. These are cool Pokemon, let them do cool things and have cool arcs.

Lucario-The whole reason we wanted Ash to have Lucario was because of their connection to aura. I don't expect Ash to train with his aura powers but Lucario could. Have Lucario train in the art of aura and implement this ability into its battles. Imagine Lucario getting blinded with Sand Attack but we get to watch it detect the Pokemon's aura and fight while blinded.

Gengar-Maybe he feels neglected at one point and runs off. We're in Kanto so he can run off to the lab and hear stories of the Pokemon's previous trainers and how Ash helped them. He could spend several episodes learning about this stuff while slowly learning to trust Ash.

Dragonite-It's a sweet Pokemon, right? Well, what if it sinks into those uncontrollable rages and thus has to learn to snap out of it. Iris' Dragonite can even help with that.

Dracovish-It's a fossil Pokemon. Maybe have it miss its friends. We could go to the Crown Tundra and, upon seeing the fossils from before it died, gets excited and tries searching for its friends. His whole thing could be accepting that things won't go back to normal.

Farfetch'd-It's kind of getting an arc.
 

Spider-Phoenix

#ChespinGang
we wanted Ash to have Lucario

Leave me out of this as I've never wanted Ash to get that thing in the first place. And I'm sure there's other people who feel the same.
 

Genetic_Hawk

Pikachu! KIMI NI KIME TAA
I just want ash to get his screentime and battles and his mons interacting with themselves and ash or together discussing about how to battle or help each other out in learning moves ( like butt wiggling in sm) or episodes where ash sweeps out a team and then mentors the opponent........ those episode would definitely freshen the mind

And for goh ...he is fine cuz he represents pokemon go and players dont need to battle mons to capture unless its a raid battle . Hope ash just battles a wild mon b4 catching like farfetchd .

Also all episodes feels like bunch of lego pieces scattered around...awful as long as not assembled
 

Teravolt

cilan lives forever in my heart
dunno if this theory would help to explain Goh‘s characterization but here:
Explanation for why Goh has caught legendaries and evolved starters and such quicker than Ash. Goh is from the world of Pokémon Go, where all legendaries are level 15-20. Fully evolved starters can be level 10, required you have enough candies and the mon has low CP. So Goh’s mons aren’t stronger or better than Ash’s, they’re just from a world with different mechanics than the anime!
 

Spider-Phoenix

#ChespinGang
I've noticed that myself but still felt important to mention to avoid such generalizations.
 
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