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How do YOU counter Garchomp... (Discussion and BRAINSTORM!)

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randomspot555

Well-Known Member
Scarfgar's Shadow Ball.

I was referring to Garchomp and it's move sets. Yes, in fact a Pokemon can come in on anything that it has an immunity too. But a strategy that relies on predicting one move ultimately fails 75% of the time.

No, because that's not the way things are done. Pokemon are judged on how powerful they are at their fullest potential. You can't ban all special moves from Kyogre and call it OU.


...I agree? So I don't know why you're quoting me.
 

Fail

Member
Scarfgar's Shadow Ball.



You know what? It's mini-log time!

Fail switched in Weavile (Lv100 Weavile ?).
Pointed rocks dug into Weavile!
Weavile lost 25% of its health.
Garchomp used *whatever*
Weavile lost 75% of its health.
Fail's Weavile fanted!
Weavile didin't do **** against Garchomp!



Um try again, it reaches 306 Speed, while StandardChomp reaches 333.

Um, Its reaches 383.

FAIL.
 

crobatman

Well-Known Member
What about using one of them Endure, Endeavor, Quick Attack pokemon with a Salac Berry? Is that even a counter at all?
 

crobatman

Well-Known Member
Well, I googled countering Garchomp, and I don't think there is a way. People have suggested Choice Specs Swampert and some other craziness.

Maybe a whole team is supposed to be devoted to countering this beast. Isn't that what most teams turned into? I guess there is no SINGLE counter yet.

EDIT:
What about an Ice Shard Donphan? I do not know much about calculating the stats.
2 Outrage: 43.08% - 49.34%
+0 Dracometeor: 33.45% - 38.94%

+1 Ice Shard: 94.41%-102.01%, 2hko with yache, 100% ko without yache and SR.
This was on another message board.

EDIT2:
I just looked it up on youtube. here are three videos of people countering Garchomp:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wpc_f0Lv0mE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEcQOX2LvP8
These are 2 sides of the same battle. Garchomp vs. Glaceon?!
Watch out for profanity in the next video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ii5UFUGVDDw
I just warn you to turn the speakers down. This has him showing different ways to take down 4 different Garchomps.
 
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sanjay120

?(???)?
...I agree? So I don't know why you're quoting me.

You were pointing out that banning just Yache Berry on Garchomp wouldn't work because there are other threatening Garchomp sets. That's not the reason it wouldn't work.
 

Volteon

Back I guess??
They can't ban a single moveset... it's either the whole Pokemon or the whole Pokemon.. same case goes for Deoxys-E. If it was only the offensive sets, no doubt he is OU, but the defensive one is that made us test it in the OU tier.

Same with Chomp and it's Yache. Ban hax itens to decrease luck is completely different to ban these berries because "they are too good". The opposite, these berries make the game even more doubtful, you are risking a possible power up item to resist an occasional move. But since the only way to deal with Chomp is Ice moves - no, no Dragon moves, nothing carries a Dragon move and it's faster than Chomp + can OHKO. (Also, it is bulkier than Swampert) Garchomp can simply abuse Yache with ease ... not to say Sandstorm makes everything harder.

About the videos posted, the last one is such a joke. Not a single of the examples were countering, yet, revenge killing. The second, Glaceon does resist it's Outrage, but what about Stealth Rock? It's not even an 80% counter (because of Sand Veil), but it seems like a 30% one... still not even close to be usable.
 

DarkLegend

The Grand Draconian
Well Garchomp's Uber now, so what say say we all take our Ice-Beam Kyogre's and
hunt down every Garchomp user until it gets it's own personal tier

Chomp Is Sad :( Tier

Criteria: Too strong for OU and too weak for Uber

About my PorygonZ idea:
I guess the Choice Scarf won't do too much good either?
 

TogeticTheRuler

Well-Known Member
Well Garchomp's Uber now, so what say say we all take our Ice-Beam Kyogre's and
hunt down every Garchomp user until it gets it's own personal tier

Chomp Is Sad :( Tier

Criteria: Too strong for OU and too weak for Uber

About my PorygonZ idea:
I guess the Choice Scarf won't do too much good either?

Fact: Garchomp was the 20th most used pokemon in ubers before it was banned.

BandChomp is very viable in ubers, know what you are talking about before you spout off your inferences.
 

Volteon

Back I guess??
Not this too weak in Ubers. Lugia is the only 100% safe to switch in against it.

And Choice Scarf anything still can't switch in with safe and still can't OHKO Yache.

The strongest Ice Shard in the game (Mamoswine's) fails to OHKO even with Choice Band, the strongest Un-Stabbed Ice Beam (Pory-Z's) fails to OHKO, STABed ones are screwed by Stealth Rock and none are able to survive Outrage and OHKO it (Regice's fails to guarantee the OHKO, the second strongest STAB Ice Beam). The strongest un-STABed Ice Punch in the game fails to guarantee the OHKO even with Choice Band (Slaking's - who normally would pick Scarf to counter Chomp, because it can't survive two Outrages). The strongest STABed Ice Punch (Weavile's) is screwed by any move Garchomp chooses to use. The second strongest is only Abomasnow's, who also can't guarantee the OHKO and is massacrated by the fire move Garchomp will have.

This all against 6 HP/ 0 Def/ 0 S.def Yache Garchomp.
 
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CabbyFish

It's B and it's W...
I think I found a sort of "Loose Counter" to the following Garchomp:

The Garchomp:

Garchomp@Yache Berry
Adamant Nature
252 AT/252 SP/4 HP

Swords Dance
Outrage
Earthquake
Fire Fang

The "Counter:"

Glaceon@Choice Scarf
Modest Nature
252 HP/32 DE/74 SPA/152 SP
31/30/30/30/30/30

Ice Beam
Shadow Ball
Hidden Power [Fighting]
Signal Beam/Water Pulse/Sleep Talk

Advantages:

1. It's faster than YacheChomp
2. The EV's given in Hit Points and Defense allow it to withstand any of the above Garchomp's attacks with at least 1HP remaining even when applying the damage taken form Stealth Rock and Sandstorm (barring critical hits)
3. As long as Garchomp has taken damage from Stealth Rock, Glaceon's Ice Beam OHKO's it 100% of the time

Disadvantages:

1. If Garchomp directly attacks on the switch in, Glaceon can't reenter battle after switching out without Rapid Spin or Wish support
2. If Glaceon's prediction is wrong (ex, the opponent switches to Heatran as you use Ice Beam), you'll end up being at a disadvantage again
 
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Naetoru

#1 Naetoru Fan!
The problem is that the Glaceon is both not guaranteed to succeed and is EVs that exist SOLELY to attempt to take down Garchomp.

It's inefficient. You devoted an entire Pokemon slot to take down a possible encounter with a single Pokemon. This is exactly why Smogon ran the OU suspect test ladders. Garchomp is far too radical of Pokemon to keep in OU because he distorts the OU metagame to focus too much on trying to be anti Garchomp.

For example, Abomasnow is OU only for the simple reason that Snow Warning helps A LOT against Garchomp. Abomasnow's hail storm doesn't need to be reset every 8 turns with use of a ice stone, and hail increases Blizzard's accuracy to 100 which means the extra 37.5 base power (including STAB's 1.5x modifier, Blizzard = 180, Ice Beam = 142.5) and hail damage really pushes Garchomp to be able to be KO'd reliably.

Hail teams are very anti-Garchomp.

Garchomp has far too much influence in team building and strategy and he was elevated into Uber status because his absence promised increased variety and viability of the resurgent Pokemon who got more popularity without Garchomp threatening them into hiding. Now some Pokemon are becoming more popular such as steel sweepers like Lucario and Scizor and pokemon aren't so stressed to pack priority attacks such as Ice Shard in their movesets to stop Jolly SD Chomp sweeps.
 

Garchomp>.<

Expert IV Trainer
I think the Metagame is screwd up now that Garchomp is gone. We get roaming Salamence with Outrage even with SR weakness its still a big threat. Scizor became perfect in platinum do to bullet punch replacing quick attack.
 

Naetoru

#1 Naetoru Fan!
Except Salamence is less bulky than Garchomp and has more weaknesses, not to mention a 4x to Ice. Also Scizor could be better if he had Bug Bite + Technician, for 135 BP with STAB (60 x 1.5 = 90 x 1.5 = 135) along with the ability to eat off any of those annoying resistance berries that are rampant on those Pokemon with 4x weaknesses.

Scizor would be even better with Bug Bite to eat enemy Yache berries. But it's not like Scizor is too hard to take down either. It has a 4x weakness to Fire and it's exceptionally slow.

Garchomp getting elevated to Uber helped the OU metagame a lot.
 

Naetoru

#1 Naetoru Fan!
Except Salamence is less bulky than Garchomp and has more weaknesses, not to mention a 4x to Ice. Also Scizor could be better if he had Bug Bite + Technician, for 135 BP with STAB (60 x 1.5 = 90 x 1.5 = 135) along with the ability to eat off any of those annoying resistance berries that are rampant on those Pokemon with 4x weaknesses.

Scizor would be even better with Bug Bite to eat enemy Yache berries. But it's not like Scizor is too hard to take down either. It has a 4x weakness to Fire and it's exceptionally slow.

Garchomp getting elevated to Uber helped the OU metagame a lot.
 
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