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How do you expect the writers to go about writing the 8th gen?

J.Agera

Well-Known Member
You can't prove a show is objectively better than the other since there's literally no way to do that for art and entertainment in general. Critics aren't objective, they just have different standards like everyone else
Actually some obvious stuff can be judged objectively. Like the quality of writing, character development, pacing, plot holes etc.
 

J.Agera

Well-Known Member
But XY is the least flawed series. It isn't even given credit where its due in these forums. Instead it's strong points are considered as flaws.
It isn't flawless thats true, but it's just the best series the Pokemon Anime has got, from an objective and unbiased standpoint.
Sure there are XY fanboys claim it's flawless, but I haven't seen even one on these forums.
When SM has FAR MORE FLAWS THAN XY EVER DID, ITS DEFENDED ON THESE FORUMS FAR MORE THAN IT DESERVES.
Did I say that in this this thread?

And yeah I am still standing by that statement but that's a discussion for another time.
 

Sham

redeemed hero and true friend
But no one is saying that? It's universally the most liked, which is an objective fact when using that website as the source, but that doesn't mean anything really in terms of quality other than it's able to reach a wide number of people
I wasn’t talking about you in this context.
Did I say that in this this thread?

And yeah I am still standing by that statement.
The point is you’re still bringing those view points in this thread; claiming XY is the saving grace of the show and that Sun and Moon is going to lead to cancellation (I don’t know who your fact checker is but they need to be fired).
 
Actually some obvious stuff can be judged objectively. Like the quality of writing, character development, pacing, plot holes etc.
What are the objective standards for good writing? Why do plot holes make a show objectively bad? What is objectively good character development?

We all have different answers and that's why art/entertainment can't be objective

Objective means fact, and you can't factually say any of these even matters when crafting a story. Plenty of great stories have static characters, plot holes don't necessarily mean that the show is objectively bad, etc
 

Sham

redeemed hero and true friend
This is thread is funny.

To get back on topic, does anyone think they’ll include the 8th gen cast in the movies or just continue doing remakes AU movies?
I think they’ll go back to having Gen 8 characters in the movies from the series, although I liked how they UB’s and legendaries weren’t stuffed in a movie this time
 

PorcelainVulpix

currently watching LOK
I think they’ll go back to having Gen 8 characters in the movies from the series, although I liked how they UB’s and legendaries weren’t stuffed in a movie this time
I agree, it was nice to see legendaries in the series.

Personally I feel continuing to do remakes would be pointless because eventually they would have to remake all of the movies so far and that would just take forever. It makes sense to stop doing remakes after remaking the first movie but it wouldn’t make sense to remake the second and third or something and then stop.
 

Sham

redeemed hero and true friend
I agree, it was nice to see legendaries in the series.

Personally I feel continuing to do remakes would be pointless because eventually they would have to remake all of the movies so far and that would just take forever. It makes sense to stop doing remakes after remaking the first movie but it wouldn’t make sense to remake the second and third or something and then stop.
Yeah, I think Mewtwo strikes back should be the last movie. It made sense to remake the Kanto movies for the anniversary but Johto, Hoenn etc should be uncharted territory since as you said they can’t just stop after the first movie. I do hope they continue trying out new art styles each movie although.
 

J.Agera

Well-Known Member
What are the objective standards for good writing? Why do plot holes make a show objectively bad? What is objectively good character development?

We all have different answers and that's why art/entertainment can't be objective

Objective means fact, and you can't factually say any of these even matters when crafting a story. Plenty of great stories have static characters, plot holes don't necessarily mean that the show is objectively bad, etc
Objective Dosen't exactly mean fact. It means non-biased.
An objectively good development will be paced according to the timing of the show.
Plot holes make a show bad when it's necessary to understand the full story but remains as hole for ever, like Ash's 10 million volts Z ring.
Some intentional plot holes can make the show even better like Code Geass.
The thing is there a standard for every genre, based on where it is handled, it can be good or bad. You can't pull out a joke in the middle of a mass murder in the fiction unless it has some purpose. The thing is not every piece of media does things right according to what they need to be, cluncky voice acting is always bad, for example unless it's for plot purposes but that has never happened. If you label a show as Horror and fill it with comedy unless it has a purpose, it is bad writing.
Everyone has different answers Dosen't mean they are right.
That's all.
 

J.Agera

Well-Known Member
I wasn’t talking about you in this context.
The point is you’re still bringing those view points in this thread; claiming XY is the saving grace of the show and that Sun and Moon is going to lead to cancellation (I don’t know who your fact checker is but they need to be fired).
Eh. I think you should read the entire conversation if you can or want to. This conversation was about ratings, not that XY was better.
XY did gave the Anime a considerable rise in ratings internationally. So that's a fact.
It's not like I am lying to save my so called "saving grace".
And I still don't understand why would you use to a reply from another thread to prove your invalid point that I am talking about "XY Is BeTtEr" in this thread?
That's all.
 

JC317

Well-Known Member
TVTokyo has mentioned that they don't give a flying f*ck about ratings. It doesn't matter. XYZ in the west is definitely objectively rated the highest, but that really doesn't mean it's good, just that a lot of people like it.

However, I'm not sure people like the SM anime that much in Japan at all. SM126, which highlights SM's " narrative " of being a goofy, slice of life show to its fullest extreme, was hated in Japan and is the lowest rated SM episode

SM in Japan isn't rated well at all on a consistent basis, but ratings don't matter like I said. Even viewership is totally destroyed because of the time slot switch, but even that doesn't matter since TVTokyo's financial reports say the anime is 3rd in terms of money made from the anime
Thanks for helping me repeat all the information I gave on Bulbagarden forums
 

mysticalglacia

Alola Shill
Even though the movies pre-SM weren't very good, they were mindless entertainment; it was fun seeing characters like Serena and Clemont and Iris deal with the situations at hand. I wouldn’t mind if they alternated between movies with the SwSh cast and AU movies tbh.
 

Leonhart

Imagineer
PorcelainVulpix said:
This is thread is funny.

To get back on topic, does anyone think they’ll include the 8th gen cast in the movies or just continue doing remakes and AU movies?
I'd love to see the Galar cast in the movies, although I have a nagging suspicion that the writers will continue making stand-alone movies that aren't connected to the main anime since the last few movies have been well received.
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
I think id rather have the au universe movies continue rather than going back to the old formula
I think the old formula has kind of been done to death now. Any of the 'classic format' episodes in XYZ were bland as hell. SM does a little better sometimes but that's because it still has more freedom in writing style. We don't need to follow SM's format, but I think maintaining the more unrestrained storytelling is for the best.
 

Leonhart

Imagineer
DatsRight said:
I think the old formula has kind of been done to death now. Any of the 'classic format' episodes in XYZ were bland as hell. SM does a little better sometimes but that's because it still has more freedom in writing style. We don't need to follow SM's format, but I think maintaining the more unrestrained storytelling is for the best.
I can appreciate a change in writing style when it's done right, but I think that the anime has made it this far because it followed a predictable pattern. So getting back to basics in the Galar saga still sounds more appealing to me than seeing a more experimental kind of storytelling.
 

Zoruagible

Lover of underrated characters
This is thread is funny.

To get back on topic, does anyone think they’ll include the 8th gen cast in the movies or just continue doing remakes and AU movies?
My answer depends on how many legendaries we get
SM had a **** ton, and it sucked how literally everything had to appear in the anime cause it couldn't in the movies!

The AU thing would work better in a gen where we have a small amount of new legendaries, like XY for instance. Just the main trio... and only Zygarde showed up!(Yes Xerneas had a cameo, but did it have a proper episode? No!) Bacon bird of death should have been in the anime proper, just imagine Ash gets turned to stone! They've now got to solve this without him, his Pokemon, and Pikachu! Isn't that exciting and creative? Oh wait.... that's why it didn't happen

Legendaries are supposed to be rare and Ash and friends meeting one every other episode like they're freaking Magikarps just completely ruins that!

If all we have is the main trio again, save for mythicals. Then yes please, do an AU. The main trio should ALWAYS be in the anime proper and not a movie! But if there's a lot of regular old legendaries, put those in a movie so they don't need to waste time showing them off in the anime

I say fillers involving legendaries are FAR more tiresome than movies centered around them.
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
Out of interest, what's your thoughts on SM breaking the taboo of protagonists CAPTURING mythicals? While I do agree the execution leaves a lot to be desired, it's interesting seeing higher tier Pokemon be part of the main group.

I can appreciate a change in writing style when it's done right, but I think that the anime has made it this far because it followed a predictable pattern. So getting back to basics in the Galar saga still sounds more appealing to me than seeing a more experimental kind of storytelling.
Maybe a step back into more conventional format but not COMPLETELY. Like have SOME 'classic' episodes but keep some degree of freshness to the series. I genuinely think the handling of the old staples is getting lethargic now. Some of the COTD/TR fillers were bland by AG, let along XY. SM trying different more character driven stories for development episodes I think is a good idea.
 

mehmeh1

God Usopp
I want Yajima back as head series director. He is the superior director in my opinion, directing two of the best entries into the Pokemon franchise with XY and Movie 21. He seems to have the heart of the series down pat
TBH, while I really like Yajima and think he's an amazing director for pokemon, I'm not a fan of his way of portraying Ash as a paragon, it worked well in M21 as it was a self contained story that wasn't really that much focused on Ash, but it kinda got annoying at times in XY, as it was a full series that was actually focused on him (not saying paragon protagonists can't work on a series, but with Ash himself it didn't really feel right). An interesting combo would be having Daiki (SM) as the director and Tomioka (DP-XY) as the lead writer, they've worked together to a pretty interesting effect for the Generations shorts, though then again, those were shorts, so IDK if they'd work well together in a full series. Whatever happens, all I hope is that they keep Junichi Fujisaku far, FAR away from gyms/the league
 

J.Agera

Well-Known Member
TBH, while I really like Yajima and think he's an amazing director for pokemon, I'm not a fan of his way of portraying Ash as a paragon, it worked well in M21 as it was a self contained story that wasn't really that much focused on Ash, but it kinda got annoying at times in XY, as it was a full series that was actually focused on him (not saying paragon protagonists can't work on a series, but with Ash himself it didn't really feel right). An interesting combo would be having Daiki (SM) as the director and Tomioka (DP-XY) as the lead writer, they've worked together to a pretty interesting effect for the Generations shorts, though then again, those were shorts, so IDK if they'd work well together in a full series. Whatever happens, all I hope is that they keep Junichi Fujisaku far, FAR away from gyms/the league
He wasn't a paragon.
 
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