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How do you expect the writers to go about writing the 8th gen?

Xuxuba

Well-Known Member
I don’t get what development he went through to go from savage Ash to whatever he is now. Development usually involves some external force that the character went through that changed them. And nobody can blame it on the years that’s went by since it’s already established he’s immortal. I see no problem with wanting savage Ash back; he was more bearable back then. Unfortunately the writers are content writing him every witch way in correspondence to the current saga.
Well, he was savage mainly towards Misty and i believe it was thanks to their interactions that he changed as a person and started being more empathetic towards people in general, although it might be difficult to notice that since OS is such a long series and it's a really slow progress when it comes to them gaining each other's trust and respect. Not to mention sometimes that development is more subtle than it should be, but i do think it's there.

After their relationship as friends grew, Ash realized that most of the criticisms Misty made was out of worry for his pokémon and Misty understood that he did care for his pokémon, he just needed time to grow as a trainer, which he eventually did.

By the end of the OS, you can see that Ash finally acknowledges Misty as a great friend and he is visibly upset over her departure (even though he doesn't show it in the beggining). That is why when she appears again in the show he is far more nice with her.

He was also savage towards Team Rocket, which i do agree that died down quite a bit, but you can still see it every now and then.

Overall, i wouldn't mind him being more "savage" again, as long as his change in behaviour was justified. I think it would be reasonable if he acted like that towards a villain or a recurrent character that really liked to push his buttons, even more than Misty did.

However, there is no point in making him that way again if they aren't able to actually write ironic jokes that focus on witty dialogue instead of just pure slapstick comedy (and i am not too confident they will be able to pull it off). Otherwise, it would just sound like he is being mean and would serve no comedic purpose.
 
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DatsRight

Well-Known Member
I don't think it's just him being 'savage' but also that he was FAR more self aware in the early episodes. He was kind of an audience surrogate in that he emphasised with what a silly world the show took part in. He was the most observant and weary to something weird screwing him over, or Team Rocket being set to come in with a stupid plan, or a COTD or companion's agendas being brainless, while by BW and XY he's by far the LEAST likely to do so. By XY he's an outright drone to the formula, he never questions the plot nor does it him, which makes him feel considerably less 'alive' as a character. SM, while keeping him hopelessly optimistic and naive, did return this element of him to a lesser degree. He can notice negative or absurd qualities in people or when he is being picked on by the plot, even if he isn't relentlessly blunt about it.
 

J.Agera

"Good and evil balance out each other."
I don't think it's just him being 'savage' but also that he was FAR more self aware in the early episodes. He was kind of an audience surrogate in that he emphasised with what a silly world the show took part in. He was the most observant and weary to something weird screwing him over, or Team Rocket being set to come in with a stupid plan, or a COTD or companion's agendas being brainless, while by BW and XY he's by far the LEAST likely to do so. By XY he's an outright drone to the formula, he never questions the plot nor does it him, which makes him feel considerably less 'alive' as a character. SM, while keeping him hopelessly optimistic and naive, did return this element of him to a lesser degree. He can notice negative or absurd qualities in people or when he is being picked on by the plot, even if he isn't relentlessly blunt about it.
I don't think writers really intended to make him feel like a self aware character.
Yeah, he was impatient and "savage", in my eyes he just grew more patient and understanding.
Although I do think he should be annoyed with team rocket and villains every now and then.
And I didn't notice anything "self aware" about SM Ash, apart from the fact that he snapped once.
 
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DatsRight

Well-Known Member
I don't think writers really intended to make him feel like a self aware character.
Yeah, he was impatient and "savage", in my eyes he just grew more patient and understanding.
Although I do think he should be annoyed with team rocket and villains every now and then.
And I didn't notice anything "self aware" about SM Ash, apart from the fact that he snapped once.

What I mean is that Ash, as impetuous as he was early on, was often a straight man and knew about all the formula and weird things around him, while later Ash never lampshaded these things and feels like a mindless slave to what the plot needs him to do (eg. OS Ash was always suspicious towards another Team Rocket scheme while by XY he's the one companion who next to never catches onto stuff like Meowth pretending to be good and always acts like it's the first time him and the TRio met or something, he also seems pretty through-the-motions with his companions while early Ash knew all his allies' quirks). SM sort of has that similar observance back, like say the Necrozma arc where he immediately notices something is up with Kukui just because his shirt is buttoned. He doesn't have to be impatient and rude to actually notice how things work.
 

J.Agera

"Good and evil balance out each other."
What I mean is that Ash, as impetuous as he was early on, was often a straight man and knew about all the formula and weird things around him, while later Ash never lampshaded these things and feels like a mindless slave to what the plot needs him to do (eg. OS Ash was always suspicious towards another Team Rocket scheme while by XY he's the one companion who next to never catches onto stuff like Meowth pretending to be good and always acts like it's the first time him and the TRio met or something, he also seems pretty through-the-motions with his companions while early Ash knew all his allies' quirks). SM sort of has that similar observance back, like say the Necrozma arc where he immediately notices something is up with Kukui just because his shirt is buttoned. He doesn't have to be impatient and rude to actually notice how things work.
I see what you are getting at. But to me it seems like he just stopped paying attention and became more pre-occupied with his goal from mid AG-DP onwards.
The XY Director was a completely new director and it was his first time directing Ash so yeah, he wasn't flawless.
I do agree to make him more self aware though, especially towards team rocket and villains.
About Kukui's shirt, it was a gag imo, like SM always does, Didn't really feel "self aware" that much.
 

TheWanderingMist

Paladin of the Snow Queen
All they gotta do is tick Ash off and he’ll revert back to his savage ways. And despite OS having good dialogue, it’s hard to write a character without seeming passive aggressive in Japanese. And I disagree with Ash being too much of a good boy to say something to snap back at someone. He lashed out at someone at least once in every saga and he’s only patient when it comes to training.

Y’all really want Ash trying to fist fight Team Rocket like he tried to in the OS?:p
Yes. Yes I do. It was hilarious.
 

Leonhart

Imagineer
DatsRight said:
You'd actually think Ash would get MORE jaded and sarcastic the more he has to deal with the same crap over and over. AG Ash being utterly DONE with TR's schemes made perfect sense for example.

He's seemed to get more accustomed to the Rocket-dan's meddling in recent sagas, almost like he knows it's inevitable that they'll appear and now he just can't be bothered to show much passion. I expect that to remain the same in Galar.
 

HolyNova Lucario

Average as average can be
I really want them to go back to the old forumla, whilst still retaining the interconnectivity between characters as they did in SM. I feel that was one of the very few things SM handled well, which was how "connected" each character was. I'd also like them to write Ash's character in a slightly less "goofy" manner as they did in SM, because I felt they went really overboard with the goofiness aspect for him. Not saying I want him to default to his XY persona, but probably something more akin to how he was in AG as I feel that was a perfect balance.
 

mysticalglacia

Alola Shill
I really want them to go back to the old forumla, whilst still retaining the interconnectivity between characters as they did in SM. I feel that was one of the very few things SM handled well, which was how "connected" each character was. I'd also like them to write Ash's character in a slightly less "goofy" manner as they did in SM, because I felt they went really overboard with the goofiness aspect for him. Not saying I want him to default to his XY persona, but probably something more akin to how he was in AG as I feel that was a perfect balance.

I feel the same. I like SM Ash a lot, but the writers tend to pick on him as a goofy idiot too much. I’d want AG Ash’s balance of snarky humor and seriousness as well as his DP and XY self’s competence and maturity. I really don’t think it’d be hard to do.
 

Leonhart

Imagineer
HolyNova Lucario said:
I really want them to go back to the old forumla, whilst still retaining the interconnectivity between characters as they did in SM. I feel that was one of the very few things SM handled well, which was how "connected" each character was.

So a normal sized cast, but with more detailed character interactions? That's how XY felt to me for the most part, although it did irk me that the writers sometimes did too much by having Satoshi's Kalos friends act like Satoshi was a big hero even before his heroics during the Flare-dan crisis. So I wouldn't want something too exaggerated in Galar.
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
The problem is that after a while a developed cast dynamic can't flourish as much within the old formula, especially since it seems to be getting increasingly lethargic with each series. By XYZ it was incredibly by-the-numbers, with things like COTD and TR interruptions/curbstomps making sure the cast didn't really need to rise out of stock roles and agency nearly every episode that wasn't a major arc instalment.

SM's better points were helped by how 'free range' the protagonists were for a change making them feel more proactive in driving whatever was going on in the story.
 

Leonhart

Imagineer
KenzeyEevee said:
They have to find a balance between action and emotion.

I agree, and although I give SM a lot of flack for its focus on comedy, I think it's balanced out action and emotional scenes quite well. So I hope that the Galar saga follows SM's example as far as that's concerned, only with less gag comedy emphasis..
 

LilligantLewis

Bonnie stan
Maybe Marnie and Team Yell will be treated like Gary and his groupies from OS. That would be hilarious!

I remembered Astrid was shown to be competent in the Diancie movie, but her other appearences against Ash was at the Kalos League where Ash won against her without knowing in details what's on going during the whole battle. Seriously, poor her.

What a joke of a battle! At the time, beating a Mega rarely happened in the anime and was meant to be difficult, now Hawlucha just beats Mega Absol without us even understanding why? One of many jokes in the giant JOKE that is the Kalos League!!

The writers need to do start introducing the villains much earlier in the saga and actually have them do serious things. They tried that with Team Skull in the Sun and Moon saga by having them appear in the 2nd episode, but then they totally ruined that by making them into the Three Stooges. We need serious villain plots, not comedy crap.

Team Skull debuted in the first episode not second, breaking the record of Team Rocket and Team Magma who debuted in the second.

What do you even mean by actual ratings? Ratings are always subjective. Even on Japanese Anime TV the viewers rate the shows.
Anyways I think we should stop.

actual ratings are defined as % of TVs nationwide that are tuned to that channel. This is what @PorcelainVulpix was referring to when saying that Indigo League went as high as 18 sometimes, highest XY&Z was 6.

I think id rather have the au universe movies continue rather than going back to the old formula

agreed especially as it usually means we get a theatrical release in the US
 

J.Agera

"Good and evil balance out each other."
What a joke of a battle! At the time, beating a Mega rarely happened in the anime and was meant to be difficult, now Hawlucha just beats Mega Absol without us even understanding why? One of many jokes in the giant JOKE that is the Kalos League!!


actual ratings are defined as % of TVs nationwide that are tuned to that channel. This is what @PorcelainVulpix was referring to when saying that Indigo League went as high as 18 sometimes, highest XY&Z was 6.
1. We don't know how the whole battle played out. Some of Ash's previous Pokémon might have weakened the mega Absol. That's the logical explanation.
IMO the only thing wrong with the Kalos League is that it's rushed.
2. I thought the highest XY ever got was 5.0? Anyway Thanks for the info. So the ratings purely depend on watch time and not quality and feedback and it is only limited to the Kanto region so it can't really be used as a solid source.
 
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