How do you expect the writers to go about writing the 8th gen?

[Pokegirl Fan~]

Ash should have left after DP, his character has never been the same since BW and he was definitely at his worst in XY. I really don't want another XY Ash in gen 8 especially since XY Ash came off as ooc and had a pretty robotic personality compared to ALL the other series that isn't XY.

 

[DatsRight]

One thing I've never liked about Ash is that he's not flawed enough. Sure, there are skill flaws, personality flaws, but I see a glaring lack of moral flaws or at the very least, questioning the nature of his actions. We could have gotten this in BW, but the anime is more concerned about turning their protagonists and their bloodlines into Purity Sues.

I think it's more that as time went on they've been going for making Ash a kindhearted simpleton archetype, and the point of them is that they're not particularly intelligent, but still very heartfelt and sweet and often have insight in the right places. You take out that enormous redeeming aspect, you just have a dumb jerk without many discernible redeeming qualities.

One thing I think they could look more into is Ash's 'innocently insensitive' side. SM has put him in newer roles, and one little subtle tidbit I liked was the couple times he noticed how lightly he treated things around Lillie, who was blatantly NOT doing his usual laid back journey. He bemoaned about Lusamine not being around to look at Cosmog, and quickly realised how indirectly callous that was while Lillie and Gladion were still mourning and traumatised.

 

[satopi]

I can see XY Ash easily doing that

Only for Pikachu. Not a human character.

There are little instances of stuff like that sure. In the same manner, there are many instances of Ash being imperfect, expressive, etc in XY/XYZ but many SM fans chose to ignore that. There simply aren’t enough big moments.

In the beginning of XY, Ash was fine but then devolved into repetitive antics summed up to "GET STRONGER! MORE MORE STRONGER!", "SCIENCE IS AMAZING!", "insert generic inspiration words", and basic responses probably the sane time Clemont devolved into the background. There were moments where he was fine when it came to him interacting with his Pokemon like saying goodbye to Goodra but he was still portrayed as perfect and overly glorified by the people around him. It got to hilariously bad territory when they emulated Jesus Christ on the cross.

You and me both know that SM hasn’t been focused on the Pokémon master and battle part.

Ash is participating in the Island Trials and will be competing in the Pokemon League that Kukui will create.

Really, logically compare SM and XYZ. Does it really look like SM would come after XY?

Yes it is. It isn't a farfetched idea to say Ash went back home, spent time with his mother and Mimey until he found out what he wanted to do, went on vacation after Mimey won the lottery, and dropped off his remaining Pokeballs at Prof Oak's.

XY/XYZ is the most obvious successor to DP(in terms of character, competence, etc...). Can’t say the same for XY-SM

Ash left Kanto with Alexa and the only thing that seems to be calling XY a "true" successor to DP is because of how badass he battles. BW happened between DP and XY and SM happened after XY.

Uh what do you mean?

I wrote about how his character is being used in SM and you simply don't acknowledge it just because it isn't your vision of Ash.

 

[DatsRight]

While SM Ash is definitely more spacey than XY Ash, he also seems more self aware and emotive. There were times during his more serious incarnates where he leaning a bit too much into Jedi-level stoicism.

As said I don't think the problem is that SM Ash has more flaws and vulnerabilities than XY Ash since he still has a check in terms of competent moments. I think it's only being relatively glaring since the SM class besides him have flaws and far less experience, but aren't quite as vulnerable and error prone as he is. Kiawe's temper has got the best of him odd times and Lillie proved naively inept in a big journey, but otherwise repercussions don't come crashing down hard on the companions like they do Ash (sometimes even when he's not done anything wrong), which makes his screw ups seem more harsh. XY had the same problem, just there Ash wasn't really that flawed either.

As said OS Ash was incredibly flawed, but Misty was to almost the same level and got the same punishments, getting pummelled in battles, kidnapped or otherwise humiliated because she'd gotten too brash or arrogant, so she felt like an equal. May and Dawn also got punished for occasional arguments or overconfident moments, while with Iris they even deconstructed the validity of WINNING ethically. These days they seem unwilling to let one of the companions even lose a filler battle.

 

[AshxSatoshi]

It’s funny because XY made fun of itself. Serena represents fans when Ash isn’t acting like how she (they) expect him to be. Her throwing a fit over Ash not being a “all mighty bad ass hero” just made fun of how delusional some people are. As annoying as that scene was it was canny how they writers KNEW they wrote Ash to be this robotic holier than thou character.

 

[AznKei]

Lol, I don't even care/bother how XY or SM Ash acts. If anything, I would like Gen 8 to put more focus to the companions, in which XY & SM so far both didn't do so well.

 

[Power Up]

I don't think giving him more arrogance again will solve much except negating the rest of the lessons that DID stick. Stuff like claiming every battle he lost was rigged or thinking every audience should be cheering him, yeah, that did make him kinda odious. Kanto's very hard edged atmosphere kinda justified it in places but in the newer friendlier regions where only the cosmos really pick on him, yeah, he'd just look like a jerk. He couldn't argue at one of the modern Poke girls like Lillie the same way he did Misty without looking like he was kicking a puppy. Hell it's possible he couldn't argue at even Iris the same way at times.

I Choose You briefly brought back Ash's earlier vindictive side and from what I know people weren't big on it at all. It doesn't work as well in the newer less cynical storytelling.

Even then I like newer Ash's very approachable and 'hippy' level sweet natured atmosphere. Even in BW and XY I appreciated it was there, he just lacked the proper balance in other parts of his personality. He can make people feel better just by acting like himself around them. SM Ash is a clown, but he's a dependable beloved clown.

Concerning his goal focus and wanting to be a master, I actually think that's something that SHOULD get underplayed after all this time since they haven't really got any direction for it besides repeating the league premise. If anything I want to see more deconstructions of it, maybe more wistful moments from Ash knowing he hasn't gotten any further all this time, or even some situations where he could risk forgoing his dream altogether. I feel like Ash almost does it compulsively now anyway, and he'd likely drop it like a rock if one of his friends needed him to.

He needs more flaws. Arrogance is definitely a good one.

One thing I've never liked about Ash is that he's not flawed enough. Sure, there are skill flaws, personality flaws, but I see a glaring lack of moral flaws or at the very least, questioning the nature of his actions. We could have gotten this in BW, but the anime is more concerned about turning their protagonists and their bloodlines into Purity Sues.

I vehemently agree. Ash isn’t flawed enough and the anime hasn’t made him fallible a ton

Ash should have left after DP, his character has never been the same since BW and he was definitely at his worst in XY. I really don't want another XY Ash in gen 8 especially since XY Ash came off as ooc and had a pretty robotic personality compared to ALL the other series that isn't XY.

I really disagree with this

I think it's more that as time went on they've been going for making Ash a kindhearted simpleton archetype, and the point of them is that they're not particularly intelligent, but still very heartfelt and sweet and often have insight in the right places. You take out that enormous redeeming aspect, you just have a dumb jerk without many discernible redeeming qualities.

One thing I think they could look more into is Ash's 'innocently insensitive' side. SM has put him in newer roles, and one little subtle tidbit I liked was the couple times he noticed how lightly he treated things around Lillie, who was blatantly NOT doing his usual laid back journey. He bemoaned about Lusamine not being around to look at Cosmog, and quickly realised how indirectly callous that was while Lillie and Gladion were still mourning and traumatised.

And I personally don’t think that’s s good thing(the top part)

Only for Pikachu. Not a human character.


In the beginning of XY, Ash was fine but then devolved into repetitive antics summed up to "GET STRONGER! MORE MORE STRONGER!", "SCIENCE IS AMAZING!", "insert generic inspiration words", and basic responses probably the sane time Clemont devolved into the background. There were moments where he was fine when it came to him interacting with his Pokemon like saying goodbye to Goodra but he was still portrayed as perfect and overly glorified by the people around him. It got to hilariously bad territory when they emulated Jesus Christ on the cross.


Ash is participating in the Island Trials and will be competing in the Pokemon League that Kukui will create.


Yes it is. It isn't a farfetched idea to say Ash went back home, spent time with his mother and Mimey until he found out what he wanted to do, went on vacation after Mimey won the lottery, and dropped off his remaining Pokeballs at Prof Oak's.


Ash left Kanto with Alexa and the only thing that seems to be calling XY a "true" successor to DP is because of how badass he battles. BW happened between DP and XY and SM happened after XY.


I wrote about how his character is being used in SM and you simply don't acknowledge it just because it isn't your vision of Ash.

He’d do it for Serena

That’s your opinion. I can say Ash is interpreted as a total goofball and an idiot, but then you and all the other SM fans will totally get on my case and go on a tangent saying SM Ash is so true to Ash’s character and how SM Ash is so balanced. So no, XY/XYZ version of Ash was better than average.

Hot dang. They gotta add some battles don’t they?

And while he did that, he also went back to the 80s and decided to embrace hippie culture.

Lol of course. I’m sure you don’t acknowledge XY/XYZ or OS Ash has his character

 

[Mega Altaria]

I guess in our viewpoint as long-time viewers Ash has developed enough and his companions should get more development. Although I agree that his companions deserve more development the show is primarily targeted at kids and if Ash doesn't get enough focus then these kids will have no idea what kind of person Ash is (although they'll grow tired of him eventually).

 

[Power Up]

I guess in our viewpoint as long-time viewers Ash has developed enough and his companions should get more development. Although I agree that his companions deserve more development the show is primarily targeted at kids and if Ash doesn't get enough focus then these kids will have no idea what kind of person Ash is.

They’ve been much too conservative regarding Ash. Never getting him out of his comfort zone as a character and never making him fallible

 

[DatsRight]

I liked XY Ash's insightful side, he seemed like a warm character, just that, by later episodes especially, he felt so defined by that that he almost felt a bit like a robot, like the others didn't really like him for his personality and more because he was a figurehead.

 

[Power Up]

I liked XY Ash's insightful side, he seemed like a warm character, just that, by later episodes especially, he felt so defined by that that he almost felt a bit like a robot, like the others didn't really like him for his personality and more because he was a figurehead.

You will never let the robotic thing go will you

 

[AshxSatoshi]

You will never let the robotic thing go will you

You mean like how you never let the slapstick thing go?

 

[DatsRight]

They’ve been much too conservative regarding Ash. Never getting him out of his comfort zone as s character and never making him fallible

I think SM has at least made baby steps, since they're willing to put him in at least completely different plot lines and challenges from the old formula, and unlike earlier series, they rarely cop out with something like Team Rocket to just make it 'Pikachu Thunderbolt!'. It's not really to the point of being REALLY out of his zone and more just to being a more flexible protagonist, but it's an okay start.

Ash has been made to go incognito as a Pokemon, got shrunk, been forced into tons of non-battle resolved feuds, effectively babysit a Pokemon that wasn't his, and just been thrust into tons of new competitions that aren't remotely within his niches. The companions seldom even get those things, especially in earlier series.

 

[Power Up]

You mean like how you never let the slapstick thing go?

Nope. Cause that’s what I feel SM is. Terrible slapstick comedy.

And I know exactly what you’re going to say to that anyway

 

[AshxSatoshi]

Nope. Cause that’s what I feel SM is. Terrible slapstick comedy.

And I know exactly what you’re going to say to that anyway

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. Go off if you want but don’t condemn someone for something you’re doing.

 

[Power Up]

I think SM has at least made baby steps, since they're willing to put him in at least completely different plot lines and challenges from the old formula, and unlike earlier series, they rarely cop out with something like Team Rocket to just make it 'Pikachu Thunderbolt!'. It's not really to the point of being REALLY out of his zone and more just to being a more flexible protagonist, but it's an okay start.

Ash has been made to go incognito as a Pokemon, got shrunk, been forced into non-battle resolved feuds, effectively babysit a Pokemon that wasn't his, and just been thrust into tons of new competitions that aren't remotely within his niches. The companions seldom even get those things, especially in earlier series.

Those are different plot lines. Not different character arcs FYI

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. Go off if you want but don’t condemn someone for something you’re doing.

Calm down. Did I ever say my opinion was better and his was worse?

I might think so however

You can think that SM Ash is your messiah or whatever. But I’ll always think you’re way off bat as well as everyone else and I won’t ever stop making my opinions head so that this forum doesn’t turn into SM circle jerk

 

[Mega Altaria]

They’ve been much too conservative regarding Ash. Never getting him out of his comfort zone as a character and never making him fallible

But he's already the butt monkey of SM, more so than his other companions in SM. And for many battles later, Ash won't win all of them for sure.

 

[AshxSatoshi]

Those are different plot lines. Not different character arcs FYI



Calm down. Did I ever say my opinion was better and his was worse?

I might think so however

You can think that SM Ash is your messiah or whatever. But I’ll always think you’re way off bat as well as everyone else.

Pokémon isn’t a religion so no SM isn’t my messiah. Nice strawmen but I never said you thought your opinion was better. I said don’t attack him for repeating the same phrase in his post when you do the same. And not mention you can make your opinions “head” all you want but nobody here overpraises SM.

 

[DatsRight]

Character arcs would be a trickier thing to do with how far they've taken Ash, I think the best they can go now is hidden depths.

There are some fuller storylines that could work as an arc for Ash, but they'd have to REALLY branch out of the formula for it to be that effective (as said I'd love a more depthful variant of Pikachu!Ash again since that idea really hasn't been toyed with in the anime).

They could also maybe pull some twist with the league, but I could see people complaining if we didn't get a proper one, just on the off chance he could have won this time. (Pfft). We've seen him lose legit in all cases, what if something ruined his chances or he actually voluntarily quit in one?

 

[Power Up]

Pokémon isn’t a religion so no SM isn’t my messiah. Nice strawmen but I never said you thought your opinion was better. I said don’t attack him for repeating the same phrase in his post when you do the same. And not mention you can make your opinions “head” all you want but nobody here overpraises SM.

Heard of a metaphor?

The bottom part is a lie.

Character arcs would be a trickier thing to do with how far they've taken Ash, I think the best they can go now is hidden depths.

There are some fuller storylines that could work as an arc for Ash, but they'd have to REALLY branch out of the formula for it to be that effective (as said I'd love a more depthful variant of Pikachu!Ash again since that idea really hasn't been toyed with in the anime).

They could also maybe pull some twist with the league, but I could see people complaining if we didn't get a proper one, just on the off chance he could have won this time. (Pfft). We've seen him lose legit in all cases, what if something ruined his chances or he actually voluntarily quit in one?

It would be tricky I guess, simply because the writers are so dead set in their ways.

Making character aces IMO wouldn’t be hard