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How do you expect the writers to go about writing the 8th gen?

Johtohfiller

Well-Known Member
Return to adventure format is the #1 for me. Also would like to see them bring back the 3D camera, guest appearances from older characters like they did with Brock and Misty, and lots of Team Rocket antics (by far my favorite thing about SM).
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
Return to adventure format is the #1 for me. Also would like to see them bring back the 3D camera, guest appearances from older characters like they did with Brock and Misty, and lots of Team Rocket antics (by far my favorite thing about SM).

I'd only recommend heavy use of TR if they brought them back to the quality they were in the OS or at least their better odd moments in later series. And they have to go back to having an actual funny chemistry with the twerps instead of being stock hero/villains.

Right now I'm fine with the twerps having to deal with more practical dilemmas than beating them up with two attacks.

That or do stuff like 'Dig Those Diglett' or 'Noodles Roamin' Off' where the twerps are just completely jaded from dealing with their crap all the time. That's funny.
 

cmarston1

Animation Enthusiast
Hopefully in a more interesting way than how SM is being written.
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
If there is one thing I'd like them to develop on, it's the use of non-battle goals and dynamics. Don't get me wrong, I want some good battles, but previous series have shown by pattern that the writers struggle to do many quality battles, thus things dwindle and fall out of balance after too long.

Usually Ash gets the lion's share of developed battles, one companion gets most of the gimmick focused ones (eg. Misty, Iris, the contest Pokegirls), while the remaining companion gets leftovers like the TR curb stomps or half-finished demonstrations if they're lucky (eg. Serena, Brock). Making things too revolved around battles means someone's gonna get screwed over or get the 'lame' bits.

While the SM cast feel unbalanced right now, they don't feel lacking in importance simply because they don't all battle. Many plots revolve around different agendas and abilities, which allows for more variation. It also means they aren't as reliant on plot armour as previous series, where if you didn't battle often it meant tons of action scenes where you relied on DEMs or were suddenly as experienced as the guys that trained the whole series (eg. the previously mentioned instance of Serena being able to match Ash despite minimal battle development).

Add to that SM doesn't feel as goal focused as the other series, which I do kinda like. Most of the characters have basic agendas to keep them proactive, but there's a lot more value on actual personality, compared to earlier series where if you didn't have some big ongoing competition you were in trouble of becoming the background companion, even if you actual character was okay.

Even Rotomdex sort of fills this criteria, since he mostly works as comic relief and exposition, but he has ongoing interest in finding new data and Pokemon to keep him motivated (especially since the region trips and Ultra Beast encounters allow him to actually progress a little in this).
 
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SinnohEevee

Well-Known Member
Return to adventure format is the #1 for me. Also would like to see them bring back the 3D camera, guest appearances from older characters like they did with Brock and Misty, and lots of Team Rocket antics (by far my favorite thing about SM).

If they have to always appear, the writers will have them do the same boring thing over and over (trying to steal Pikachu and fail miserably).

Yeah but Serena really did not do anything in those 7 episodes. At least Dawn's journey was shown.

DP001 was one of my favouritesbecause it was nearly entirely devoted to Dawn. It showed her beginning her journey, getting lost (sounds familiar?), saving her starter from an Ariados (sounds familiar?), and seeing a Legendary Pokémon (sounds familiar?).
 
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Xuxuba

Well-Known Member
Yeah but Serena really did not do anything in those 7 episodes. At least Dawn's journey was shown.
She was being trained by her mother against her will, then she decided to pack up her things and leave, went to lumiose, got her first pokemon, found out where Ash was going, started her journey by traveling alone in the woods, got attacked by wild Venipede and a Vespiqueen, reached Santalune city by herself, met Ash, Bonnie and Clemont and became friends with them, returned Ash's handhekerchief, bonded with Fennekin and taught Ash how to ride a Rhyhorn.

By saying she did nothing in the first 7 episodes you are pretty much ignoring the entire beginning of her journey.
 
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MidnightMelody

Hopeful for Gen 8
She was being trained by her mother against her will, then she decided to pack up her things and leave, went to lumiose, got her first pokemon, found out where Ash was going, started her journey by traveling alone in the woods, got attacked by wild Venipede and a Vespiqueen, reached Santalune city by herself, met Ash, Bonnie and Clemont and became friends with them, returned Ash's handhekerchief, bonded with Fennekin and taught Ash how to ride a Rhyhorn.

By saying she did nothing in the first 7 episodes you are pretty much ignoring the entire beginning of her journey.
I don't remember much from XY even if it was the newest. I watched like maybe 20 eps at random times compared to how I saw religiously watch all the other series
 

VoltTacklingPika

Well-Known Member
If we're discussing what we'd like to see next generation, then there's one thing I'd really, really want them to focus on: character agency.

This show has a historic problem where characters can feel like they're just "there" without offering much. It began during the journey through Johto when Misty and Brock's influence on Ash's journey diminished because Ash didn't need them anymore (he didn't need Misty to keep him focused, and he didn't need Brock's peacekeeping or sage advice). The problem would then stick with Brock throughout AG and DP, where nothing he does effects the story in any way and you could cut him out without losing anything. Clement was hit with this hard in the second half of XY, and now we're seeing the same happen with Mallow, Sophocles and Lana.

It's my number one problem with the show right now. As much as I like or want to like these characters it's difficult to get invested in them when they're so inconsequential to the story. So next gen, regardless of how big the cast is, I want more characters with real motives, more stakes in the narrative and the ability to effect the story, instead of just more window dressing.
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
Mallow got a fair improvement in her recent episode, it's just such cases are still a rarity.

I think a problem with these characters isn't just their lack of spotlight, but a lot of the time they don't even get good supporting roles. Kiawe doesn't get a LOT of central limelight and focus on his agenda for example, but he gets to take part in many episodes and situations in a creative way, and there's enough token substance to his niches and goal to make him seem like a fully fledged character. Mallow on the other hand spends a lot of episodes in the background doing nothing, and while she similarly has an established agenda, it struggles to get a lot of investment even in her central episodes (today's was a big boost from the usual and even then it could have been better).

Clemont I consider a double edged sword in XY, since while he didn't get a lot of goal or character focus in XY, he seemed better in supporting roles than Serena since he had lots of unique 'smart guy' niches and funny comic relief elements to seep in memorable moments. Serena on the other hand while having a developed goal, often struggled to be relevant in other episodes, being incredibly generic in terms of character agency, often only taking out TR at their worst or similarly just being in the background with a worried look. It's probably why before the showcases were established, it felt like SHE was going to be the third wheel.

Plot armour has also been the anime's biggest enemy for character agency. The twerps weren't regularly known for being protagonists that could step into any unique situation and solve or change it up in a unique way. Often they had to wait for a COTD to add in their problems and then for TR to enter and dumb it down into saying 'Pikachu, Thunderbolt!' and if they couldn't just do that, they needed a DEM like a Pokemon evolving or someone rescuing them. SM does really feel like it's trying at times (Ash in particular has benefitted in many episodes, cases like the Morelull and Passimian episodes show his sometimes very unique brainwave) but as mentioned they blatantly have an easier time thinking up roles for certain characters over others.

Hell as mentioned, they even managed to turn a Pokedex into a palpably active character since not only does he provide a recurring use to the show and a funny character, but he's actually invested in what he does and upgrading himself and the series' premise and arcs mean he has plenty of opportunities to do such (such as fitting himself with other region data or even finding new Pokemon like the Ultra Beasts).
 
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FrozTKnight

Will ORA ORA ORA you
Here is a possible outline (could conterversial) on what they could do for gen 8

  • Make Ash complete the 8 gyms battles at the start of episode 1.
  • He went to challenge the League but he was a little late for he has to wait till the next league.
  • OPTIONAL - Make him beat gyms with his old Pokemon, but for the rest of the series he decides to use the Gen 8 Pokemon he will catch (also the reason he didn't want to catch Pokemon was because he was trying to beat the deadline for Gen 8 League entries).
  • Give him the role Brock had with mentoring and teaching the novice the Pokemon and strategies.
  • Make the Pokegirl a gym challenger and have Ash mentor her through the region (she is also native to the region)
  • The other companion could be anything, so lets make him a tourist writing a book on his adventures in the region.
  • Also he had written Books on the previous regions and is an expert camper and traveller.
  • He joins the group because he knows about Ash and wants to travel with him due Ash's previous exploits in the other regions
  • This revalation about Ash is also what make here to want to follow him.
  • And by the end when they go to the league the final champion battle would be the girl vs Ash - student vs mentor (victor will be Ash)
 

Pokegirl Fan~

Liko>>>>>Ash
Here is a possible outline (could conterversial) on what they could do for gen 8

  • Make Ash complete the 8 gyms battles at the start of episode 1.
  • He went to challenge the League but he was a little late for he has to wait till the next league.
  • OPTIONAL - Make him beat gyms with his old Pokemon, but for the rest of the series he decides to use the Gen 8 Pokemon he will catch (also the reason he didn't want to catch Pokemon was because he was trying to beat the deadline for Gen 8 League entries).
  • Give him the role Brock had with mentoring and teaching the novice the Pokemon and strategies.
  • Make the Pokegirl a gym challenger and have Ash mentor her through the region (she is also native to the region)
  • The other companion could be anything, so lets make him a tourist writing a book on his adventures in the region.
  • Also he had written Books on the previous regions and is an expert camper and traveller.
  • He joins the group because he knows about Ash and wants to travel with him due Ash's previous exploits in the other regions
  • This revalation about Ash is also what make here to want to follow him.
  • And by the end when they go to the league the final champion battle would be the girl vs Ash - student vs mentor (victor will be Ash)
I like all the points except the last one, since Ash isn't allowed to win a league.
 

CMButch

Kanto is love. Kanto is life.
Here is a possible outline (could conterversial) on what they could do for gen 8

  • Make Ash complete the 8 gyms battles at the start of episode 1.
  • He went to challenge the League but he was a little late for he has to wait till the next league.
  • OPTIONAL - Make him beat gyms with his old Pokemon, but for the rest of the series he decides to use the Gen 8 Pokemon he will catch (also the reason he didn't want to catch Pokemon was because he was trying to beat the deadline for Gen 8 League entries).
  • Give him the role Brock had with mentoring and teaching the novice the Pokemon and strategies.
  • Make the Pokegirl a gym challenger and have Ash mentor her through the region (she is also native to the region)
  • The other companion could be anything, so lets make him a tourist writing a book on his adventures in the region.
  • Also he had written Books on the previous regions and is an expert camper and traveller.
  • He joins the group because he knows about Ash and wants to travel with him due Ash's previous exploits in the other regions
  • This revalation about Ash is also what make here to want to follow him.
  • And by the end when they go to the league the final champion battle would be the girl vs Ash - student vs mentor (victor will be Ash)

I just read your first sentence.. looked at my wall and said: what? Then, I went to splash my face.. no lie. 8 gyms in episode 1 of Gen 8? Like Gen 8 episode 001= Ash gets all 8 badges from Gen 8, and battles all 8 leaders? Lmao wtf?
 

FrozTKnight

Will ORA ORA ORA you
I just read your first sentence.. looked at my wall and said: what? Then, I went to splash my face.. no lie. 8 gyms in episode 1 of Gen 8? Like Gen 8 episode 001= Ash gets all 8 badges from Gen 8, and battles all 8 leaders? Lmao wtf?

I just face palmed at your reply. Obviously I didn't mean him battling all the gyms in 1 episodes. Episode 1 starts and he already has the gym badges but can't enter the league because he couldn't make the entry deadline, so he is stuck doing nothing until the next league starts. This is where the Pokegirl comes in where he mentors her and travels with her as she challenges the Gen 8 gyms.
 

CMButch

Kanto is love. Kanto is life.
I just face palmed at your reply. Obviously I didn't mean him battling all the gyms in 1 episodes. Episode 1 starts and he already has the gym badges but can't enter the league because he couldn't make the entry deadline, so he is stuck doing nothing until the next league starts. This is where the Pokegirl comes in where he mentors her and travels with her as she challenges the Gen 8 gyms.
1. He can easily do that because of Origins. Origins made Red go through entire Kanto in 4 episodes. So, it's possible, that's why I thought that. 2. That's stupid.. why would he get badges off-screen that we couldn't see? Entire point of the new region is to show Ash getting badges(new strategies, Pokemon, what's GL's strategy etc), Also Ash being late on the league almost reminds me of Cameron's antics, so that's a no too.
 

FrozTKnight

Will ORA ORA ORA you
1. He can easily do that because of Origins. Origins made Red go through entire Kanto in 4 episodes. So, it's possible, that's why I thought that. 2. That's stupid.. why would he get badges off-screen that we couldn't see? Entire point of the new region is to show Ash getting badges(new strategies, Pokemon, what's GL's strategy etc), Also Ash being late on the league almost reminds me of Cameron's antics, so that's a no too.

After 6 gens of gyms and 1 gen of trials I think we have seen Ash go through gyms more than enough how about we give that to another character and have Ash mentor her at the same time, and we could use something like unoffical tournaments (Like in BW) to see him battling.
 

CMButch

Kanto is love. Kanto is life.
After 6 gens of gyms and 1 gen of trials I think we have seen Ash go through gyms more than enough how about we give that to another character and have Ash mentor her at the same time, and we could use something like unoffical tournaments (Like in BW) to see him battling.
That's not happening. Ash will always go for badges no matter what and once he's done and done with a league, it's all over.I mean, if they wanted to do what you're saying, they could've done it with BW: Ash winning Sinnoh league, Ash being Iris's mentor, we also had tournaments in BW etc. Yet Ash was still winning a badges, that proves Ash will be 10, losing leagues, winning badges until Pokemon game sales go down, which would happen probably in 50+ years.Also, again what you said about badges and league still makes no sense. It'd be better if you said: Ash wins all badges in 50 episodes, wins the league in 60 episodes and after that becomes a mentor for a girl.It makes no sense for him to be a mentor after getting badges.After winning the league? Yes.
 

LilligantLewis

Bonnie stan
You know what I would like to see return in Gen VIII??? VS screens. To me, they were the best on-screen graphics improvement in the history of the anime when they were brought in in Gen VI, but in Gen VII they've been relegated to only being used for Kahuna battles.
 

SinnohEevee

Well-Known Member
After 6 gens of gyms and 1 gen of trials I think we have seen Ash go through gyms more than enough how about we give that to another character and have Ash mentor her at the same time, and we could use something like unoffical tournaments (Like in BW) to see him battling.

He will always need to do the same journey we do in the games for the kids who just started playing them.

Stuff that will never happen:
* Ash winning a League Conference
* Ash aging
* Ash not starting from scratch every new generation

He needs to be relatable to the 5-year olds who just started playing the games.
 

VoltTacklingPika

Well-Known Member
Plot armour has also been the anime's biggest enemy for character agency. The twerps weren't regularly known for being protagonists that could step into any unique situation and solve or change it up in a unique way. Often they had to wait for a COTD to add in their problems and then for TR to enter and dumb it down into saying 'Pikachu, Thunderbolt!' and if they couldn't just do that, they needed a DEM like a Pokemon evolving or someone rescuing them. SM does really feel like it's trying at times (Ash in particular has benefitted in many episodes, cases like the Morelull and Passimian episodes show his sometimes very unique brainwave) but as mentioned they blatantly have an easier time thinking up roles for certain characters over others.

This is it, basically. They're still in the habit of inserting characters into episodes but not giving them anything to do, and most of them some characters are only there because Ash is. If Ash didn't have a habit of getting into fun and crazy situations the cast wouldn't be doing anything.

Know what would have been cool? If they had Sophocles contribute to all the fancy tech they use for the Ultra Guardians stuff. He's into science and inventing things, and it's something only he amongst the cast can do. All of a sudden, he'd have a distinct role in the group, and it'd be much easier to get him involved in the story. Even during filler episodes, you could have Sophocles working on things for the Ultra Guardians or something, which would keep the arc relevant during all the downtime. But nope, they just made him a regular member with no discernible skills or reason for doing anything. It's a massive missed opportunity.

And they do this sort of thing every season. Brock is a former gym leader with deep knowledge of how to raise and care for Pokemon, so why did he never help out with Ash or anyone's training more than he did? He travelled with two co-ordinators, so would his knowledge not have been useful to them as well? Same for Clement. He's a gym leader and scientist. Okay, so he helps out with the whole Ash-Greninja thing, but could he not have been useful to Serena as well? Maybe he could have captured and provided footage of her performances to study (correct me if he actually did this and I just forgot).

There's just so many things that can be done with a character that there's no excuse for having them stand in the background.
 
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