How do you expect the writers to go about writing the 8th gen?

[MidnightMelody]

The writers need to realize this is not a niche series seen by only japanese kids but people of all ages around the world. So the comedy focus doesn't work as well outside of Japan. N(Not sure how well it does in Japan too) I think other anime have noticed this too. DB Super compared to DB and Z is a lot less japaneseesque since they know how big it is outside Japan.

Really? Do you want to use a episode about a haunted tower to say that OS and SM are equal?

Plus at the time this was pretty normal. 90's anime did this as a staple

 

[Jeal]

I never said OS and SM are equal. That's your interpretation that I already falsified in a previous post on this very page. Also, nice throwing stones from that glass house of yours.

So what was your point? Silly faces and slapstick weren't used in OS as much as SM. The slapstick moments were natural, not forced down our throats. Don't try compare OS with SM.

 

[mehmeh1]

The writers need to realize this is not a niche series seen by only japanese kids but people of all ages around the world. So the comedy focus doesn't work as well outside of Japan. N(Not sure how well it does in Japan too) I think other anime have noticed this too. DB Super compared to DB and Z is a lot less japaneseesque since they know how big it is outside Japan.




Plus at the time this was pretty normal. 90's anime did this as a staple

to be fair, quite a bit of us who watch pokemon nowadays watch it illegally (well, more due to there not being a legal alternative aside from waiting months for the dub)

 

[Dragalge]

The writers need to realize this is not a niche series seen by only japanese kids but people of all ages around the world. So the comedy focus doesn't work as well outside of Japan. N(Not sure how well it does in Japan too) I think other anime have noticed this too. DB Super compared to DB and Z is a lot less japaneseesque since they know how big it is outside Japan.




Plus at the time this was pretty normal. 90's anime did this as a staple

What makes you think the writers consider the Pokémon anime a niche series? Just curious. =p

 

[Sceptile Leaf Blade]

So what was your point? Silly faces and slapstick weren't used in OS as much as SM. The slapstick moments were natural, not forced down our throats.

There's clearly no debating you. If magically appearing giant hammers, characters physically abusing each other over the slightest annoyance, and magically appearing gongs are all natural to you but a bit of facial exaggeration is deal-breaking to you we're done here.

Don't try compare OS with SM.

There's this thing called context you're missing again and again. I didn't start with the OS comparisons here. That was this post.

 

[DatsRight]

The biggest differences from OS and SM was that OS had a more snide and cynical format from Shudo's original plans (which were more a deconstruction of the Pokemon concept than adapting it straight), and also since it was the very start of the series, the old formula hadn't whittled out yet and everyone, for the first half or so at least, flowed into it okay, while in SM the old formula is usually only used when they run out of ideas and thus has a significant blandness over everything else.

 

[Akkipeddi]

There's clearly no debating you. If magically appearing giant hammers, characters physically abusing each other over the slightest annoyance, and magically appearing gongs are all natural to you but a bit of facial exaggeration is deal-breaking to you we're done here.

The difference is that OS had a variety of humour while SM feels like a one trick pony. In OS, you had the odd mallet smashing from Misty and all that, but at the same time, there was so much banter and clever dialouge in general. Ash being witty and a 'savage at roasting', Brock's randomness at the most unlikely of situations and Misty trying to be the only sane person with logic in the group. For example, James's story about he ran away from home and 'died' in Holy Matrimony remains one of the funniest moments in the anime till date, and used ZERO slapstick. SM's humour feels forced and unnatural because slapstick and unnecessary goofy moments are all they seem to be able think and rely on. There's almost zero humour in SM that arises from the cast's interactions and instead, always seems to be about putting Ash in an idiotic situation.

 

[MidnightMelody]

What makes you think the writers consider the Pokémon anime a niche series? Just curious. =p

Pretty much the way they focus only on the japanese fanbase unlike most anime even anime aimed at the same demo. I get certain anime keeping a lot of japanese focus if it's more of a japanese only series but for Pokemon they have to know it is not just watched by little asian kids

The difference is that OS had a variety of humour while SM feels like a one trick pony. In OS, you had the odd mallet smashing from Misty and all that, but at the same time, there was so much banter and clever dialouge in general. Ash being witty and a 'savage at roasting', Brock's randomness at the most unlikely of situations and Misty trying to be the only sane person with logic in the group. For example, James's story about he ran away from home and 'died' in Holy Matrimony remains one of the funniest moments in the anime till date, and used ZERO slapstick. SM's humour feels forced and unnatural because slapstick and unnecessary goofy moments are all they seem to be able think and rely on. There's almost zero humour in SM that arises from the cast's interactions and instead, always seems to be about putting Ash in an idiotic situation.

I'm waiting till they enter the world of toilet humor but am hoping Gen 8 drops before they go to that point. If the last three episodes are the direction they plan to go I will be fine with it. The last three episodes have not had much comedy let alone forced.

 

[snorlax512]

There's clearly no debating you. If magically appearing giant hammers, characters physically abusing each other over the slightest annoyance, and magically appearing gongs are all natural to you but a bit of facial exaggeration is deal-breaking to you we're done here.

The thing is the giant hammers and gongs weren't the source of humour in OS. The humour is crafted from the creative and witty dialogue exchanges between the main cast, which is then reinforced by the 'slapstick' part as a reaction and hence being funny.

The difference in SM is a lot of the time, the slapstick is the source of humour (basically find some random thing to hit Ash and co --> insert funny facial expression), which some people may find funny, but in my opinion requires zero creativity and ingenuity to pull off.

 

[Captain Jigglypuff]

I just hope the next region’s League isn’t Some form of BS.

 

[DatsRight]

It depends because I think SM has a lot of character interactions and banter for humour as well. SM brought back TR's frustrations at being treated like dead weight by the organisation through Matori (and Jessie feeling incredibly frustrated by the 'kappa' criticising her). We get more instances of the Pokemon and trainers relating to each other in funny ways. Some funny reflex moments like Ash and Kiawe almost turning a rehearsal into another battle. Lana's constantly deadpan attitude. Ash is even mildly sarcastic again (admittedly not NEARLY as often as in the OS but still he is more self aware than the previous few series, especially around Rotom). SM is definitely more frenetic than earlier series but it does have plenty humour that isn't just 'characters getting hit'.

One also has to remember that a lot of the sarcasm and banter from the OS was improvised for the English dub, while SM is a more straight translation. The only element that was blatantly downgraded in the original is Team Rocket's chemistry with the twerps, though that itself isn't just the creation of SM since previous series had slowly made TR out-of-place artefacts as well.

 

[Shadao]

One also has to remember that a lot of the sarcasm and banter from the OS was improvised for the English dub, while SM is a more straight translation. The only element that was blatantly downgraded in the original is Team Rocket's chemistry with the twerps, though that itself isn't just the creation of SM since previous series had slowly made TR out-of-place artefacts as well.

You sure that OS is not as witty or banter humor in the original Japanese dub?

 

[DatsRight]

You sure that OS is not as witty or banter humor in the original Japanese dub?

I know it's not void of it, though I do know that 4Kids took liberties with the script in many places.

 

[Akkipeddi]

I know it's not void of it, though I do know that 4Kids took liberties with the script in many places.

Most of their liberties were to do with adding hints of shipping which weren't in the original, and often ridiculous localisations of certain foods and all, such as translating onigiri to jelly filled donuts which ended up becoming unintentionally funny. Other than bits like those, majority of the humourous moments were still in the original Japanese since it was the same script. Only thing is I feel that majority of those humourous moments were funnier in English due to 4kids VA's. Eric Stuart was amazing and really gave life to Brock and James.

 

[MidnightMelody]

I just hope the next region’s League isn’t Some form of BS.

Part of me hope it drops the league for more of a jrpg plot. Mostly due to leagues have been meh for years now.

 

[Dragalge]

Most of their liberties were to do with adding hints of shipping which weren't in the original, and often ridiculous localisations of certain foods and all, such as translating onigiri to jelly filled donuts which ended up becoming unintentionally funny. Other than bits like those, majority of the humourous moments were still in the original Japanese since it was the same script. Only thing is I feel that majority of those humourous moments were funnier in English due to 4kids VA's. Eric Stuart was amazing and really gave life to Brock and James.

The drying pan! Never forget the drying pan!

 

[AznKei]

Part of me hope it drops the league for more of a jrpg plot. Mostly due to leagues have been meh for years now.

Like some kind of empires or mega corporations that are taking over the world and the heroes from a group of resistance try to save the cities one by one, like Final Fantasy style.

 

[MidnightMelody]

Like some kind of empires or mega corporations that are taking over the world and the heroes from a group of resistance try to save the cities one by one, like Final Fantasy style.

TBH I have wanted pokemon to move away from the tournament scene to this for a long time. Having the game focus on a jrpg quest over the league could help the anime too. I always felt the league concept always got in the way and the character interaction and exploring was what should be focused on.

 

[U.N. Owen]

TBH I have wanted pokemon to move away from the tournament scene to this for a long time. Having the game focus on a jrpg quest over the league could help the anime too. I always felt the league concept always got in the way and the character interaction and exploring was what should be focused on.

The problem is not the league. The problem is that the narrative refuses to have any risks at all. It's the reason why I felt certain series lack dramatic tension. Whenever a hero goes on a journey, they give something up or they risk giving it up. With Pokemon, we don't get that.

But OS never crossed line, and don't have risk make for kids physiological trauma. And - because it's beginning of story, those faces was acceptable and fine.

Nope. OS was still more traumatic as Porygon may attest.

 

[DatsRight]

The problem is not the league. The problem is that the narrative refuses to have any risks at all. It's the reason why I felt certain series lack dramatic tension. Whenever a hero goes on a journey, they give something up or they risk giving it up. With Pokemon, we don't get that.

Plot armour and the need for fully happy endings mandate against any effective villains or even personal challenges or what not. These days it feels like they begrudge the bad guys even getting in a few hits on the heroes, let alone them or some other catalyst having some sort of long term toll on the whole mix of things. The only times you know a dilemma will take some dramatic toll is when it involves a COTD; a character that will ultimately have no role in the story afterwards, and even these are rare.

Faba is arguably the nearest to a bad guy whose actions played a long term effect on the main characters and their story, though many agree it wasn't done very well and ultimately everything was still undone very cleanly and easily in the end. Non-bad guy I suppose there's....Kukui having Ash go to school instead of travel in Alola? We still don't know how effective this will be.

It's not just the lack of risks but more the feeling everything in the universe runs under this very regimented automation, and nothing the characters say or do can change how this works. Even the instances this means the heroes will lose for once are so formulaic now that they have become part of the monotonous loop. SM, due to making the main formula a more minor part of the show, is the nearest to downplaying this and making things a bit more spontaneous and character driven, but even then you can tell when things go back to the main plot it's the same usual process stronger than ever.