How do you expect the writers to go about writing the 8th gen?

[VoltTacklingPika]

Their focus should be on just making a good character, not one that fits some model or archetype. Whether they're "girly" or "tomboyish" really should not matter.

In any case, it's unlikely that any new girl character is going to be a serious battler because there'd be too much overlap with Ash. There's a serious risk of repetition and a lack of variety. For instance, how would they handle two characters travelling together who both want to do gyms? Would they have one gym battle followed by another the next episode, against the same opponent? What if one loses? That's now three fights in the same gym. Would they invent more gyms just to avoid this issue?

They could make another battle-oriented thing for her to do, but then they have to justify Ash not wanting to take part in that. This is why characters such as Misty and Iris have goals that involve battling but have a broader scope for other activities. If they had Water-type/Dragon-type only tournaments, Ash would absolutely want to be a part of it, and that undermines the other characters who are supposed be in the spotlight. It's also why the battling heavy characters tend to be rivals, because they can justifiably do stuff off screen, which neatly sidesteps the overlap issue.

I saw the idea of having two parallel adventures, with the story shifting between Ash and a new character. While I think that'd be cool, there's no way that Ash and Pikachu would be off screen for any significant period of time.

I think the girl this time just needs to have an interesting objective. It'd be different if she has an interest in the regional legends or history and wants to go around investigating things. It's something that's neither "girly" or "tomboyish", doesn't involve collecting trinkets, and has scope for world and lore building. It'd be a cool way to integrate the mythological stuff into the story.

 

[Lord Starfish]

Their focus should be on just making a good character, not one that fits some model or archetype. Whether they're "girly" or "tomboyish" really should not matter.

In any case, it's unlikely that any new girl character is going to be a serious battler because there'd be too much overlap with Ash. There's a serious risk of repetition and a lack of variety. For instance, how would they handle two characters travelling together who both want to do gyms? Would they have one gym battle followed by another the next episode, against the same opponent? What if one loses? That's now three fights in the same gym. Would they invent more gyms just to avoid this issue?

They could make another battle-oriented thing for her to do, but then they have to justify Ash not wanting to take part in that. This is why characters such as Misty and Iris have goals that involve battling but have a broader scope for other activities. If they had Water-type/Dragon-type only tournaments, Ash would absolutely want to be a part of it, and that undermines the other characters who are supposed be in the spotlight. It's also why the battling heavy characters tend to be rivals, because they can justifiably do stuff off screen, which neatly sidesteps the overlap issue.

I saw the idea of having two parallel adventures, with the story shifting between Ash and a new character. While I think that'd be cool, there's no way that Ash and Pikachu would be off screen for any significant period of time.

I think the girl this time just needs to have an interesting objective. It'd be different if she has an interest in the regional legends or history and wants to go around investigating things. It's something that's neither "girly" or "tomboyish", doesn't involve collecting trinkets, and has scope for world and lore building. It'd be a cool way to integrate the mythological stuff into the story.

The repeat Gym battles problem is one that I had considered... What I would do for that is, have them both try to challenge the first Gym at the same time, and due to something-something-insert-plot-excuse-here there's only time for one battle, and so the Gym Leader suggests "Yo, why don't we make it a double battle, with two of my Pokémon VS you two using one each?", and then this pattern continues for the next several Gyms, then the girl eventually decides she wants to go it alone somewhere around Gym #6, wherein Satoshi wins and she loses but something-something-insert-plot-excuse-here it's not possible for her to rechallenge said Gym immediately, so they go on and both win the last two Gyms individually, then the something-something-insert-plot-excuse-here blocking Gym 6 is undone and she goes back to rematch that one solo, during which time the anime could throw in that thing that was basically canon in The Origin with Gym Leaders having different teams depending on the skill level of their opponent, thus making the team that she faces here and ultimately defeats a different one than the one Satoshi defeated earlier...
That way you'd only have two cases where both protagonists would literally fight and win the same exact opponent back-to-back, with everything else being either a team effort or them facing different challenges for the same ultimate reward. And that's just something I came up with in, like, a day, and I'm by no means a professional writer. If the anime staff wanted to, they could absolutely give us two main characters working towards the same goal without it becoming stupidly repetitive... buuuuuuut the keyword here is "wanted to". Which I don't think they do. So I suppose this idea will only ever appear in fanfiction.

 

[VoltTacklingPika]

The repeat Gym battles problem is one that I had considered... What I would do for that is, have them both try to challenge the first Gym at the same time, and due to something-something-insert-plot-excuse-here there's only time for one battle, and so the Gym Leader suggests "Yo, why don't we make it a double battle, with two of my Pokémon VS you two using one each?", and then this pattern continues for the next several Gyms, then the girl eventually decides she wants to go it alone somewhere around Gym #6, wherein Satoshi wins and she loses but something-something-insert-plot-excuse-here it's not possible for her to rechallenge said Gym immediately, so they go on and both win the last two Gyms individually, then the something-something-insert-plot-excuse-here blocking Gym 6 is undone and she goes back to rematch that one solo, during which time the anime could throw in that thing that was basically canon in The Origin with Gym Leaders having different teams depending on the skill level of their opponent, thus making the team that she faces here and ultimately defeats a different one than the one Satoshi defeated earlier...
That way you'd only have two cases where both protagonists would literally fight and win the same exact opponent back-to-back, with everything else being either a team effort or them facing different challenges for the same ultimate reward. And that's just something I came up with in, like, a day, and I'm by no means a professional writer. If the anime staff wanted to, they could absolutely give us two main characters working towards the same goal without it becoming stupidly repetitive... buuuuuuut the keyword here is "wanted to". Which I don't think they do. So I suppose this idea will only ever appear in fanfiction.

I'll defend the writers here by saying that it's by no means simple within the rules they have to work with.

Gym battles have been a 1v1 thing forever because they're supposed to be a trial for an individual, whose success is representative of their growth. If they throw a second trainer in there and make it 2v1, that's another set of problems and resolutions the writers have to account for at the same time. The problem here is that Ash and this new character aren't going to have the same issues, nor should they, because they would want their characters to be distinct from one another. In this case, they would have two different issues clashing with one another in the same moment. It'd get unnecessarily messy.

Tag battles are inherently about teamwork, but teamwork between two trainers isn't the point of a gym battle or the Pokemon League. With a team, they either learn to work together and overcome things together, or they prove incompatible with each other and fail. Success has to be shared among the characters, so it'd be less significant for any individual, which undermines the individual journey of the character. For instance, this new character could shine in a gym battle, overcoming some problem in the process, but it's never going to feel as great because Ash would be there sharing some of that spotlight. If he isn't, his role in the battle would've been pointless.

The characters need room to breath and opportunities to distinguish themselves. If you have two characters who want the same thing, the way to distinguish them is to have them take two different paths to the same destination. But in Pokemon, there's only way one way to the Pokemon League, hence you only see the one character on that journey.

 

[Remix2]

This is why the female companions have become mostly underwhelming, it’s all an attempt to avoid outcry from feminists and SJWs, since they want women to be treated as flawless, and to have male characters treated badly just to make the female better. It’s the sad reason why many female characters in media these days are mostly bland in terms of personality, because portraying them with flaws will only mean you get attacked by the feminists and no one wants to be bashed by a feminist.

Another likely reason the female protagonist (just referring to the protagonists as Sword for the male, and Shield for the female, based on the typical version name trend until official names are revealed) is because the controversial reception towards Iris might have made the writers not want to attempt a female Gym Leader companion again due to Iris being known by most fans only for being a bully towards Ash.

and what does "sjw"(a word that mean nothing these day) have to do with female companions being underwhelming in a Japanese cartoon?

 

[AznKei]

and what does "sjw"(a word that mean nothing these day) have to do with female companions being underwhelming in a Japanese cartoon?

Well, people likes to complain and tells us what's right or wrong especially with the social media being prevalent now than before.

I'm just suprised that there's people making a huge deal about some scenes in the anime while I'm like "Eh...?", like in XY about Serena wearing Fennekin and Ash outfits.

 

[LilligantLewis]

I had hopes for Lilie at one point, but then after they rescued Lusamine her character progression pretty much stopped dead in its tracks.

Reminds me of Clemont after his gym.. it's basically that mid-gen moment that is the culmination of that character's arc, that makes you feel like they should have put it at the end of the gen instead.

Obviously a lot of the stuff that's happened with Lusamine post-AF arc couldn't have happened (such as UG) if AF arc happened at end of gen, but you know, they could have just done that differently.

similarly, in the Gen VI anime Clemont's gym should have been 8th, and been a full 6on6 with Dedenne, Magneton, Heliolisk, Luxray, Bunnelby, and Chespin. It still pisses me off that we haven't had a gym battle with more than 3 Pokémon since Candice, and that even includes the gym immediately after Candice, Volkner, who should have used Raichu.

And then, it would have made perfect since for Clemont to be 8th since they would have been in Lumiose City anyway which is where the League was. Then, Clemont's development would not have had to stop mid-gen.

 

[CMButch]

Ash will not get his diploma, because, you know, he didn't study at all.

What if in that "graduation arc" we get to see two sides? 1st is Graduation league( where Ash and Kiawe will participate and Ash will win thus graduate) and other is graduation exams/test where girls and Sophocles will participate in order to graduate.

 

[DatsRight]

Non-battler goals would be presentable if they were actually developed as well as the battle ones. All too often they just feel like something hashed together so they can excuse this character not doing many developed battles, rather than something they're willing to invest time and development on in a creative way to enhance the character and their agency. There's loads of different strengths and weaknesses in battling, and loads of different ways you can apply to that role. Kiawe's battle arc for example was subtle but still worked because it played on his personality flaws to develop upon, like his temper or being too adjusted to a comfort zone. There was room to flesh out his character using battles as a component, giving some consistent sense of meaningful progression (also most of Kiawe's battles were written in compelling way). Most of the other agendas don't really go much into that.

Also 'girly' isn't a bad thing, stereotyping the versatility of a 'girly' character's role, bubble wrapping them from intense or negative scenes or forbidding them from having properly developed flaws or fallible qualities because "girls don't do that stuff" is a bad thing. Mallow's problem isn't that she's feminine, it's that the manner they approach her character is half assed and boring. There are COTDs that have had more intuitive agency and idiosyncrasies as a cook than she has. It's also inexcusable to have a main character that doesn't have a defining vice, completely crippling their ability to have a character arc since there is nothing to improve upon in the first place (Lana kinda has the same problem, she has eccentricities but nothing that really hinders her and allows for ongoing plot focus, her bubble thing almost feels like an idle pastime because she's too inherently competent at everything otherwise, even just going for that premise INTENTIONALLY would have more interesting a direction).

They tried to give Mallow and Lana fair limelight in the Poni arc but this problem arose, most of what they do is boring since there is no aim, nothing to improve about them or any real quirks to play on. Mallow's one investing moments of spotlight was more an external force, a backstory, not her being an interesting character individually.

Even the underplayed companions of beforehand like Brock, Max and Tracey had some foibles to hold the occasional limelight episode and play into their direction. This is a VERY bad new standard to have for main protagonists, especially since SM's story setup should have left them WAY more flexible to just shoot their shtick and stand out based on personality, while many previous companions at least had the excuse of being regimented to a formula.

 

[Jangobadass]

Not much to go on so far, but I just hope they put a cap on the number of companions again (SM had WAAAY to many characters) and cut down on the slapstick and meme faces.
And since S&S have lovely graphics, hopefully we'll go back to a better art-style.

Though I'll go ahead and bet even money we get another Gym Leader companion or two.

And yeah, Galar being based on the UK is just begging for references to various works made or set in there...but I'm not sure how much our Japanese writers know about Bristish/Welsh/Scottish (and maybe some Irish) media...

Oh, and just hope to & pray to God AND Arceus they handle the villains better here than they did poor Team Skull & the Aether Foundation.

 

[Lord Starfish]

Non-battler goals would be presentable if they were actually developed as well as the battle ones. All too often they just feel like something hashed together so they can excuse this character not doing many developed battles, rather than something they're willing to invest time and development on in a creative way to enhance the character and their agency. There's loads of different strengths and weaknesses in battling, and loads of different ways you can apply to that role. Kiawe's battle arc for example was subtle but still worked because it played on his personality flaws to develop upon, like his temper or being too adjusted to a comfort zone. There was room to flesh out his character using battles as a component, giving some consistent sense of meaningful progression (also most of Kiawe's battles were written in compelling way). Most of the other agendas don't really go much into that.

Also 'girly' isn't a bad thing, stereotyping the versatility of a 'girly' character's role, bubble wrapping them from intense or negative scenes or forbidding them from having properly developed flaws or fallible qualities because "girls don't do that stuff" is a bad thing. Mallow's problem isn't that she's feminine, it's that the manner they approach her character is half assed and boring. There are COTDs that have had more intuitive agency and idiosyncrasies as a cook than she has. It's also inexcusable to have a main character that doesn't have a defining vice, completely crippling their ability to have a character arc since there is nothing to improve upon in the first place (Lana kinda has the same problem, she has eccentricities but nothing that really hinders her and allows for ongoing plot focus, her bubble thing almost feels like an idle pastime because she's too inherently competent at everything otherwise, even just going for that premise INTENTIONALLY would have more interesting a direction).

They tried to give Mallow and Lana fair limelight in the Poni arc but this problem arose, most of what they do is boring since there is no aim, nothing to improve about them or any real quirks to play on. Mallow's one investing moments of spotlight was more an external force, a backstory, not her being an interesting character individually.

Even the underplayed companions of beforehand like Brock, Max and Tracey had some foibles to hold the occasional limelight episode and play into their direction. This is a VERY bad new standard to have for main protagonists, especially since SM's story setup should have left them WAY more flexible to just shoot their shtick and stand out based on personality, while many previous companions at least had the excuse of being regimented to a formula.

^^^^^^
Yeah, actually, I retract my previous requests for "Basically Kosaki From Nisekoi" to be in the anime as both the main heroine and Satoshi's main rival. @VoltTacklingPika did a pretty good job explaining the problems with my idea. I just want her to be a well developed character with a clearly defined goal and actual shortcomings to work on. And for her to be allowed to fail. Seriously, while I might enjoy Suiren's troll moments, it's hard to deny that... these moments are basically her entire character. And Mao is just air. Air which admittedly did get one really good episode a few weeks ago which is kind of impressive, but that episode basically just gave her a conflict that's never even been mentioned before only for it to then be resolved in the very same episode, so it doesn't really do anything to make her a better character overall.

 

[DatsRight]

It's a shame really, one of the things I like about SM is the sense of humility with the other protagonists (at least besides the episodes which just single out Ash for abuse). Too often the previous series used external forces and goals for the driving force of the protagonists. SM most of the time tries harder to give an underdog-ish tint to them, them all having their own defining weak spots and always being forced into situations they're thrown in front of them. It's not crushingly cynical like Kanto was sometimes, but it doesn't feel the need to be in 'Yeah, they're badass, they can do anything' mode all the time like later series. Even basic stuff like the sports episodes is often built around them struggling in some characteristic way and having to use those little eccentricities to turn it round. There's a greater sense of the Pokemon being kindred spirits or emotional crutches for their trainers' vulnerable sides, something that was usually only prominently seen with TR's Pokemon previously.

I feel like Ash always works better written as a bit of "loser" just a cheerful defiant one that can still accomplish things and prove his worth. He's a character that's easy to underestimate. Same for the likes of Lillie. You take away that pitiful side of her it's much harder to root for her. Often times I feel like the butt monkey role is actually evaluated according to how much agency and genuine effectiveness a protagonist has this series, like they feel they can drag this character through the mud if they have enough to land back on. They can think up loads of different ways for Ash to be competent this series so him redeeming himself after tons of humiliation isn't really the issue.

I feel this is the reason Mallow and Lana keep getting demoted, they don't have any inherent flaws, there's no low point to vindicate themselves from and for the audience to sympathise with them, nor do they really have the agency to manage out of it if they did. They're probably characters that would have worked fine as supporting cast members, but as protagonists proper they lack any real investment or substance, and are just not as fun in SM's approach.

 

[Epicocity]

Reminds me of Clemont after his gym.. it's basically that mid-gen moment that is the culmination of that character's arc, that makes you feel like they should have put it at the end of the gen instead.

Obviously a lot of the stuff that's happened with Lusamine post-AF arc couldn't have happened (such as UG) if AF arc happened at end of gen, but you know, they could have just done that differently.

similarly, in the Gen VI anime Clemont's gym should have been 8th, and been a full 6on6 with Dedenne, Magneton, Heliolisk, Luxray, Bunnelby, and Chespin. It still pisses me off that we haven't had a gym battle with more than 3 Pokémon since Candice, and that even includes the gym immediately after Candice, Volkner, who should have used Raichu.

And then, it would have made perfect since for Clemont to be 8th since they would have been in Lumiose City anyway which is where the League was. Then, Clemont's development would not have had to stop mid-gen.

When you forget Roxie...not that I blame you. Unless you mean a Gym Leader using more than 3.

 

[LilligantLewis]

When you forget Roxie...not that I blame you. Unless you mean a Gym Leader using more than 3.

Yup I meant a gym leader.

 

[mehmeh1]

Yup I meant a gym leader.

I was hoping that hapu would finally turn things around and make it a 4v4, but instead we get a 1v1

 

[MidnightMelody]

I'll be honest I want either a reboot of Ash OR (and this is very possible) the entire SM series is truly treated as a real vacation. Ash gets off of his Kalos high and goes on a vacation and stays for a long period of time. However at the end he decides to pick his journey back up and is told about Galar my maybe someone from the league or Prof.Kukui and decides to check it out. That would also explain the cheap artstyle. It is all seen from Ash's relaxed eyes so everything looks less "normal"

 

[ash&charizardfan]

One simple word, make gen 8 similar to AG, it had good mix of comdy, humuor, pacing, good battles (BF) and storyline.

 

[Sceptile Leaf Blade]

AG also had some of the most obnoxious and formulaic filler episodes ever. I think well over half of the episodes you can simply skip and not miss anything whatsoever. And most of those filler episodes aren't even about the main cast, they just reduce the entire main cast to standing in the background commentating while the character of the episode gets an arc and is then never seen again. SM has filler here and there, but a lot of it is at least driven by the main cast and makes a story that actually involves them instead of being about some random character we'll never see again.

Episodes like these:

Hooked on Onix

Rough, tough Jigglypuff

Sitting Psyduck

Caterpie's Big Dilemma

I can go on and on.

 

[Kintaro]

Those are early Battle Frontier fillers and yes they're pretty poor and mediocre. It's pretty much well known that part was slow till the saga picked up.

 

[DatsRight]

I think SM had the right direction for fillers at least, more versatile and more revolved around the main cast with COTD and TR antics kept in moderation. AG was maybe a bit better for when those factors came into play however (eg. TR having funny non-generic interactions with the twerps or putting up the odd not-so-harmless battle, or even having their backgrounds still looked into, more cases of COTD that weren't just generically helpful or nice).

There's irony that one AG filler made far more vibrant and humorous use of a Pokemon cooking profession than SM has done its entire run with one as a main character.

 

[Kintaro]

A lot of AG/DP fillers did suffer from the repetition of TR and filler COTD's, don't get me wrong there were some good and funny filler there though. Probably the only reason they don't get as much dislike as Johto fillers is simply because there was less of them and the sagas weren't as bloated with pointless eps. Stuff was still moving along with the main cast whereas in Johto both Misty/Brock were rather stagnant so there was nothing to carry the show between Ash's Gyms.