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How do you feel about the SM arcs?

Twilight-Kun

Pokemon World Champion
Certain episodes in every arc are good, but they've all had their low moments, such as the Stoutland Search episode during Akala, the Altar episode during Aether, and bizarrely enough, SM088 felt stupidly Fillery even though it had Lunala and Necrozma squaring off - it felt like all the time and effort went into the last minute of the episode

I do keep revisiting the Ultra Space episodes of the Aether Arc because they feel a lot better in a vacuum or replacing the anime with events from the game
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
Certain episodes in every arc are good, but they've all had their low moments, such as the Stoutland Search episode during Akala, the Altar episode during Aether, and bizarrely enough, SM088 felt stupidly Fillery even though it had Lunala and Necrozma squaring off - it felt like all the time and effort went into the last minute of the episode

I do keep revisiting the Ultra Space episodes of the Aether Arc because they feel a lot better in a vacuum or replacing the anime with events from the game
My main issue is that the two US episodes mainly revolve around a very dumbed down battle. Lusamine's Pokemon don't really fight as much as they just tower around menacingly and take hits, it's like they wanted the other companions to be involved without getting roughed up remotely. And of course the DEM Z Move at the end.

The Necrozma arc wasn't a great showdown either, but at least it's focus was more on actual world building of the dimension and the twerps winning in a more diverse way that works not being very tense.
 

shoz999

Sure, sure. Go for it.
My main issue is that the two US episodes mainly revolve around a very dumbed down battle. Lusamine's Pokemon don't really fight as much as they just tower around menacingly and take hits, it's like they wanted the other companions to be involved without getting roughed up remotely. And of course the DEM Z Move at the end.

The Necrozma arc wasn't a great showdown either, but at least it's focus was more on actual world building of the dimension and the twerps winning in a more diverse way that works not being very tense.
Actually. I don't remember much battling from the Necrozma special. Weird now that I think about it.
 

MidnightMelody

Hopeful for Gen 8
Funny how so many were supporting SUMO at first and would try to kill anyone who criticized it even if it was just a small critique to now seeing how big of a mess it truly is.
 

AznKei

Team girls in Trials Of Mana FTW! XD
Funny how so many were supporting SUMO at first and would try to kill anyone who criticized it even if it was just a small critique to now seeing how big of a mess it truly is.
I think the show in general is more messy than before and it's not only limited to SUMO. But I watch it anyways because I feel like it and get over with the episodes quickly regardless if they're good or not, as I'm well aware that I don't have any control about the show controversial decisions.
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
Funny how so many were supporting SUMO at first and would try to kill anyone who criticized it even if it was just a small critique to now seeing how big of a mess it truly is.
Oh no, I agree, SM is messy in direction, I guess it's just the fact that I feel like the writers are more consistently trying to make the whole thing fun. While there's maybe higher quality arcs in earlier series, it always feels like something takes the fall for that. There's always a long endurance of very dull repetitive episodes prior to the big memorable arcs, while SM has a consistency for better or worse. The arcs aren't as well written (though still have enjoyable moments) but I don't feel like I suffered through a load of monotony for nothing because of it, the rest of the ride was still fun.

I know this is very subjective, as many think SM's fillers are crap too, but in my case I can appreciate the arcs don't bring down the whole series if they don't deliver.
 

mehmeh1

Potatoer
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! The Light That Burns the Sky move. That can only be done with a Z-Ring. Meaning Necrozma needs a trainer to use that move. Kusaka tends to show all the exclusive Pokemon moves. Put two and two together... O_0 TO THE THEORY VAULT! AKA The January Plot Discussion thread.
sorry, not up to the current chapter yet (I'm still around sm 5), though I do regularly go to the plot discussion threads just to try and see if there are any updates for BW2
 

shoz999

Sure, sure. Go for it.
sorry, not up to the current chapter yet (I'm still around sm 5), though I do regularly go to the plot discussion threads just to try and see if there are any updates for BW2
Okay but much of what I said comes from the fact of how Pokemon Adventures faithfully adapts the game mechanics, not any of the current chapters right now. So you have no need to worry about spoilers.

Certain episodes in every arc are good, but they've all had their low moments, such as the Stoutland Search episode during Akala, the Altar episode during Aether, and bizarrely enough, SM088 felt stupidly Fillery even though it had Lunala and Necrozma squaring off - it felt like all the time and effort went into the last minute of the episode

I do keep revisiting the Ultra Space episodes of the Aether Arc because they feel a lot better in a vacuum or replacing the anime with events from the game
Onto the original topic, was the reason why it felt fillery was because the Team Rocket and Naganadel portions took up the Necrozma storyline? It feel like they were trying to stuff over 4 hours of story material into two episodes.
 
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Twilight-Kun

Pokemon World Champion
Onto the original topic, was the reason why it felt fillery was because the Team Rocket and Naganadel portions took up the Necrozma storyline? It feel like they were trying to stuff over 4 hours of story material into two episodes.
It simply wasn't engaging and there wasn't really any tension because they kept showing people being tired and unmotivated, which dragged the episode to a halt as they had to be slow and sleepy

I'm also slightly impressed by how the adults managed to fly a helicopter to the Altar of the Sunne while in that condition
 

Hammad80

Active Member
One word: boring... In fact, this word can be used to sum up most of the SM anime. It’s straight up dog poop compared to previous seasons- even BW wasn’t this bad.
All characters (except maybe Gladion and Kukui) are trash and boring. Plots are some of the worst. Ash’s roster hasn’t improved. Very little action or exciting stuff. WAY too many useless fillers. Overall, a dumbed down anime. Can’t wait for it to be over.
 

MidnightMelody

Hopeful for Gen 8
One word: boring... In fact, this word can be used to sum up most of the SM anime. It’s straight up dog poop compared to previous seasons- even BW wasn’t this bad.
All characters (except maybe Gladion and Kukui) are trash and boring. Plots are some of the worst. Ash’s roster hasn’t improved. Very little action or exciting stuff. WAY too many useless fillers. Overall, a dumbed down anime. Can’t wait for it to be over.
Yeah not sure how people can say the fillers in SM are good. They are just so dull. Not saying fillers in past series were amazing but they were more interesting
 

Kintaro

Banned
The last number of fillers were pretty good. Kiawe and Lana are also great characters with unique personalities. Unlike the others they have distinct personalities that don't overlap with past companions either.
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
Yeah not sure how people can say the fillers in SM are good. They are just so dull. Not saying fillers in past series were amazing but they were more interesting
My issue with most previous fillers is that they were usually only two of three acts. Even if some had a better plot potentially than SM's set up they never committed to it. We'd have a big battle or rivalry set up....and then something predictable plot device like Team Rocket would break it up and make the earlier plot unresolved in favour of something dull and repetitive like a curb stomp battle. Hell even some of the main development episodes did this in previous series.

SM's plots aren't revolutionary but they are usually complete and driven fully by the protagonists and have a proper 'actions - consequences - solution' setup rather than maybe one and a half of those steps. Only Mallow's really failing in this regard which is likely why so many find her underwhelming despite so often using the 'classic formula'.

For the first time in ages Ash is given the prospect of doing something different in a story...and actually does it with nothing interrupting it, which gives him way more depth and agency than being driven around in half a COTD plot and then something basic like 'Pikachu Thunderbolt!' against Team Rocket all the time.
 
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Lord Starfish

Fond of owls
Yeah not sure how people can say the fillers in SM are good. They are just so dull. Not saying fillers in past series were amazing but they were more interesting
Some filler in Sun & Moon is bad... but some of my favorite episodes in the series are filler, like the baseball episode, or the Nekkoala episode, or the episode with the best English name ever, "Dummy, You Shrunk the Kids!" Nothing of importance happened in any of these episodes, yet they're some of the most fun I've had with the Pokémon anime. In fact with how underwhelming Sun & Moon's attempts at serious arcs have been (The whole Nyabby and Mooland arc aside), I... kinda think the show is often at its best when it's doing filler, really.

...Which is not to say that there weren't fun fillers in past series too, mind you. I quite enjoyed the inventions festival episode just before the Kalos League, with Team Rocket's elaborate mecha that served absolutely no practical purpose whatsoever. "It would have been much more practical if Nyarth just stepped forward and used Fury Swipes! He didn't even hit Pikachu!" or however that line went.
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
Some filler in Sun & Moon is bad... but some of my favorite episodes in the series are filler, like the baseball episode, or the Nekkoala episode, or the episode with the best English name ever, "Dummy, You Shrunk the Kids!" Nothing of importance happened in any of these episodes, yet they're some of the most fun I've had with the Pokémon anime. In fact with how underwhelming Sun & Moon's attempts at serious arcs have been (The whole Nyabby and Mooland arc aside), I... kinda think the show is often at its best when it's doing filler, really.

...Which is not to say that there weren't fun fillers in past series too, mind you. I quite enjoyed the inventions festival episode just before the Kalos League, with Team Rocket's elaborate mecha that served absolutely no practical purpose whatsoever. "It would have been much more practical if Nyarth just stepped forward and used Fury Swipes! He didn't even hit Pikachu!" or however that line went.
I think the problem is that was the one episode in XYZ that revolved around making an entertaining TR faceoff, rather than just using them as a plot device whenever they run out of material (which happened a LOT). It's about the one time in XYZ I actually remember the twerps having funny interactions with them. Early XY had a few more of these, but slowly but surely just went into standard formula. And even then in most of these exceptions, it's Team Rocket who are the stars while the twerps are just the boring invincible heroes unless their goal arc is the focus. It's bad when it actually felt like a poor man's DA (which was mostly TR filler as well but at least tried to be creative about it and flow it naturally into whatever the twerps were doing instead of butt into it).

I like SM for the fact that they are trying to avert the protagonists' vanilla reputation, and show they can be fun just through their own personality, and drive stories on their own without plot devices or competition arcs always having to hold them up. Sure some like Mallow are still failing, but the majority of the times the heroes are actually the draw appeal (though Team Rocket still have their funny limelight episodes).
 
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SM isnt an action-based series agreed. But the action that we get, doesnt feel like action. Necrozma for example, didn't feel like a threat to me. The same feeling I had of the battle between Ash and Hau. Come on, not using the Grassium-Z because you are so clumsy?
 

Twilight-Kun

Pokemon World Champion
Come on, not using the Grassium-Z because you are so clumsy?
He didn't expect to find anyone out in the wilderness and didn't have a crystal prepped

His decision to use one was a snap one and it ultimately backfired, and he was better prepared in the next battle

Besides, how many excited ten-year olds do you know that are masters of hand-eye coordination?
 

Redstar45

The Anime/Special's canon know it all.
He didn't expect to find anyone out in the wilderness and didn't have a crystal prepped

His decision to use one was a snap one and it ultimately backfired, and he was better prepared in the next battle

Besides, how many excited ten-year olds do you know that are masters of hand-eye coordination?
Since 10 years old is adult in world of full monsters that has power to change the world at your hands ? Pokemon never about real life stuff don't even try .
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
The thing is many previous series' attempts at being serious and action packed still felt rather clumsy and pretentious, while SM at least makes fun of the fact it's not quite solid as an 'epic'. The characters are intentionally bumbling instead of just forced into plot enforced stupidity and cases like the Ultra Beast face offs are anti climatic in a way that plays into the plot rather than going against the tensity it wants to convey. Let's be fair Ash has more personality when he's deliberately written as bumbling, compared to cases where they try to write him as hyper competent but still makes stupid mistakes for the sake of the plot.

Most of the rare times SM tries to be deadly serious it just ends up suffering the same problem as the series before, as the anime as a whole just isn't tightly woven enough to be treated seriously.
 

Redstar45

The Anime/Special's canon know it all.
Problem is that sm anime is try to be a yokowatch and when they try best in their storyline that serious but it is not what sm anime is about ........a compy show that you as watcher meant to laughing at ash and his friend ......but they been try go back to os ara stuff and problem is they has been done that long ago and doesn't fit in what ash and his friend story about now ........that is pretty why i choose you films didn't go that route because now in 2010s era not late 90.....
 
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