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How does the Pokemon XY series compare to other anime in-general?

Discussion in 'Pokémon Animé Discussion' started by shoz999, Dec 31, 2018.

  1. shoz999

    shoz999 The Legend of Mudkip

    So one thing I've noticed is that many of the Pokemon anime fans here in the Serebii.net forums seems to use some kind of "Pokemon anime standard". It's where you determine the quality of the Pokemon anime not by comparing it to other anime, manga or other forms of media but instead to simply other seasons or series of the Pokemon anime series. I've partly seen this in two threads. In the "How does the Pokemon anime rank with other shows you've watched?" thread. In other words, how does the Pokemon anime compare to just what many of you see as good anime in-general and most of you ranked the Pokemon anime pretty low. In another thread that got recently locked out, a certain person who loves the anime explained to me that he admitted that the Pokemon anime's quality in-general is just inferior to that of Pokemon Adventures and the two shouldn't be compared for the simple fact that the anime does not have as much creative freedom as Adventures. He has a point but I disagree because the comparisons of these differences are not only interesting but there is also one anime series from Pokemon I feel that shouldn't belong to this seemingly belief of a "Pokemon anime standard" because of inferior quality or limited creative freedom, that the Pokemon anime is only good when you don't compare it to what you believe is good anime in-general and that is the Pokemon XY series and it is a very good representation of a word that some Pokemon fans in the anime section seem to have forgotten unless you read Pokemon Adventures and that is an EPIC.

    Not "this is epic" as in like it's freaking amazing, but it's AN epic as in terms of the storytelling genre, like seeing your protagonist come face-to-face with N after he shockingly defeated the Pokemon Champion after several fateful encounters with you because of some foretold destiny or the fact that the protagonist travels with Lillie with a full-grown Nebby to rescue her mother from her madness after so many adventures together since the day Tapu Koko rescued you from a perilous fate. This is a word that many Adventure fans are familiar with and use from time-to-time. It's why someone who claims to read Pokemon Adventures and makes it look terrible by using an example of a picture from that manga can almost always be proven to be a moron in front of everyone because that person isn't using an example from a filler-fest like the Pokemon anime, he's using an example from an epic with interconnected plotpoints and moments that cannot simply be judged by one round, similar to Lord of the Rings or Harry Potter. The word "Epic" is something that I feel some Pokemon anime fans have seem to forgotten because those who stuck around have gotten used to the mediocre quality of the Pokemon anime series, more specifically filler-fests. Storytelling as an Epic is is one huge aspect that even the Diamond and Pearl series, a strong contender for "greatest Pokemon anime series" for many, fails big time due to so many flaws that weigh it's pros down, most notably the filler and for that reason I feel that the XY season is definitely unique for maintaining that presence of a very consistent epic. Best Wishes fits the idea of an Epic as well, I haven't finished it yet but have gotten pretty far, but the difference between Best Wishes and XY is execution. The XY series has gotten so much right. From animation, to great action-scenes, to a smart Ash that's even more consistent than his DP counterpart, to the gorgeous art style accompanied by a a very consistent medieval/fairy-tale theme of the Kalos region and to a more understandably subjective viewpoint, interesting characters and nearly every filler episode that feels less like filler and more like a fun contribution to the story at-hand and is possibly an even better start for Pokemon fans than even the Indigo League.

    With that being said.
    How do you think the Pokemon XY series compares to other anime in-general? Is the XY series just a good anime in-general regardless if you don't believe it comes as close to other favorites? Is it in an entirely different class of it's own compared to other Pokemon series?
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2018
    LilligantLewis and Genaller like this.
  2. Genaller

    Genaller Mein Kaiser

    In comparison to other anime, the story of XY is one of a fairly standard shonen ‘epic’; however, it shines in other aspects such as breathtaking visuals, excellent music and very good voice acting even by the standards of anime in general (in the Japanese version at least). In particular I’d put the action set pieces in Pokémon during some of the major XY battles in the top 10% of all anime fight-scenes with stuff like the ME Act 3 legend battle and A-G vs MS KL probably even making top 5%. Overall XY would be mediocre (by the standards of anime in general) if judged purely on the narrative, but the fantastic presentation elevates it to a good (but still not great) anime series.
  3. Tsukuyomi56

    Tsukuyomi56 Blizzard Maiden

    The animations are good but personality wise the main characters felt a bit bland. Think it has to do that Ash got along too well with his travel companions so there is not much oppurunity for him to experience emotion outside of reacting to Clemont's inventions.
  4. Prof. SALTY

    Prof. SALTY The Scruffy Professor

    Put simply, if it wasn't pokemon, I wouldn't watch it. There are WAAAAAY better Shounen shows I could be watching with more interesting, explored characters and better visuals with q story that actually goes somewhere. I liked XY for what it was, but honestly I'd prefer to either watch a better show or a better season of pokemon.
    shoz999 likes this.
  5. Jeal

    Jeal Well-Known Member

    Well, XY sure was great for the Pokémon anime standarts, but when you compare it to other shonen animes(Saint Seiya, Naruto, One Piece), it wasn't that great. The story was average, just the action was good(again, for the pokémon anime standarts).

    Let's take the Team Flare arc for example. Three episodes focused on the team(one of them without Ash and company) before the grand finale with 5 episodes. It was definitely a step forward, because the extended finale(the standart back then was up to three), gym leaders doing something, Ash finally battling the leader, etc.

    In a true shonen, would be handled like this: at least 5 episodes focused on Team Flare, before the grand finale with at least 12 episodes. Long battles between Clemont, Serena and the scientists with physical damage to the battlers.

    I really had expectations of the gen VII anime to be better than XY, but it wasn't the case. Maybe the next saga will be.
    shoz999, Spider-Phoenix and 04n70n10 like this.
  6. Pokegirl Fan~

    Pokegirl Fan~ Toshiya Sato vs Goro Honda

    It's at the very bottom of my list compared to other anime, including shonen anime like Naruto Shippuden *shudders*
    Zhydra likes this.
  7. AznKei

    AznKei Rabi-Ribi's Cocoa is cute! ^_^

    As my 1st full series I watched, I didn't really enjoy it. I dislike seeing Ash taking care of almost everything, including blasting Team Rocket in filler episodes, while the companions were staying in the background for most of time, and Serena's goal, while it did help her development, compared to other idol girls animes it was mediocre overall. And while XY is more battle-centered, I still rank below stuffs like Dragon Ball Super and RWBY as the latters give spotlights on multiple characters than the main one.

    I did cheer Ash Kalos Pokemons, except Greninja, as like with the companions we got to see them once before they're gone. I'm still critical about the status quo as of SM but at least they toned down Ash, and the SM girls got their satisfactory outcomes in their fights.
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2018
    PorcelainVulpix and shoz999 like this.
  8. Darthlord7

    Darthlord7 The Black Swordsman

    It's nothing more other than a generic shounen anime which doesn't stand out apart from having the name "Pokemon" in it thus the reason I ended up watching it fully otherwise I would have dropped it during the first 40 episodes. The Pokemon Anime's strong points are the OST, japanese voice-acting and animation. When it comes to story, character development, action etc., most anime out there have nothing to be envious of XY or any other Pokemon Anime series since they are handling those way better for the most part.
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2018
    PorcelainVulpix, Genaller and shoz999 like this.
  9. Kintaro

    Kintaro Well-Known Member

    Pokemon is better than everything except Dragonball Z and Full Metal Alchemist. LOL!
  10. shoz999

    shoz999 The Legend of Mudkip

    Personally I think the XY series is pretty good in terms of action-scenes but I wouldn't entirely call it a shonen-style anime. It's more like an action-packed sci-fi fantasy slice-of-life anime lol. Yes slice-of-life because you have many moments where Ash simply does not battle and this is actually a very good thing. A problem with past anime seasons I had is when Ash would battle every random character of the week and that would get boring at times if you kept doing pointless battles excessively. This is honestly one of the reasons why I got bored of Ash's battle with Paul during Snowpoint City because it just seemed pointless with no real character development and showed as many expected, Ash losing for the sake of making Paul feel like this jerk rival. Battles are fun but there is just so much you can do with battles in terms of characterization and Ash's rivalry with Paul shows that as there's not much of a "fun factor" outside of battles which is why I do personally think Paul's rivalry is one of the more overrated ones, there's not a lot of character to him.

    XY does things differently, they actually take the time to write extremely good side stories that ain't always about the battles but shows different interesting fun aspects of the Kalos region of the XY series full of slice-of-life moments that I actually believe contributes to that of feeling of an "epic". A great example is simply Serena's Pokemon Showcase contests. These are just in general Pokemon contests but without the contests battles and focuses down on showing Pokemon spectacles and is something I liked as we got to see not only Serena grow as a character, from a girl who has no clues what her dreams are to trying out showcases only to fail in front of a few times resulting her becoming a stronger character, but also just beautiful animation at work here outside of battling. If you ever wanted to see beautiful animation at work here outside of the usual Pokemon battles, XY is definitely the top contender as we see in Serena's animated dance with her Pokemon just having a good time. Then you have other fun little filler episodes that fill less like filler and more like side content that contributes to the just how immersively magical and huge the Kalos region feels like for example races, sky-battles and one of my favorites is the time that Pikachu is absolutely terrified when the Pokemon and Trainer's voices are switched in a dream world because of Darkrai. It's the little moments like this that doesn't really feel like it drags down XY's story but rather enhances the region of Kalos as a whole and I think it has partly due to the fact of a consistent medieval-fairytale theme that makes Kalos really stand-out. The XY series does a good job in making Kalos feel like this magical place in nearly every episode. You get to see beautiful gardens and vineyards, medieval castles, giant mystical-looking trees and this is a type of consistency that previous series just felt like it lacked or were unable to maintain. A great example is Hoenn and Sinnoh. One's a tropical region and the other is a colder region but both regions never really gave off that vibe. If anything they felt like they were not too different from Kanto which had not only a similar artstyle but also had colder climates in snowy mountains and even an entire tropical region called the Orange Isles that didn't really helped Hoenn and Sinnoh felt like it stands out.

    So to sum it up. I think XY series is pretty good as a an action-packed sci-fi fantasy slice-of-life anime and while it's nowhere as great as say "One Piece" or "Scientific Railgun", I do think it still stands out as in-general just a simply an all-around good anime from beginning to end and the best part is you don't really need to watch any of the previous series to enjoy it or know who these characters are. I've heard Alexia mentioned in the BW series a lot but let's be honest, do you really need a lot of past episodes in another separate series to know what a news reporter is? And the XY anime answers no, you don't need all that information as it does a good job explaining in a quick short moments of who Alexia and Ash is that to many returning fans, XY felt like the beginning of something new.
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2019
    blizzardblaze likes this.
  11. DatsRight

    DatsRight Well-Known Member

    My general problem with XY is, despite it insinuating that the stakes were raised and there was more action and things going on, if anything, it was probably the most regimented series of the lot. The characters just seemed to run on a formula, odd gags, odd motivations, but more often the plot plays in what they do and how well they are at it, and usually meticulously sabotages any attempts by the characters to change how things work despite the implication that's what they are supposed to be doing.

    Even the two character arcs have this sense of futility, that everyone else is played as the underdog to the main character up until that final almost anti climatic hurdle where there's a bigger fish. I think that's why so many were unsatisfied with Ash winning despite that they should really have been used to it by now, because everything in the story is hyped and built towards him winning, to the point he barely has any entertainment value besides his goal, battling is pretty much all he has. Other key arcs are similar, they play big villains but they always lose more to plot armour than the twerps own efforts (compared to last series where they at least legit played with the twerps going toe to toe with a competent Team Rocket) and even Serena's showcases being judged and decided by audience vote feels like an escape clause out of substance and legitimate character agency and talent display. Even just standard episodic plots are constantly interrupted by something like Team Rocket when there's the risk of the protagonists actually having to get too involved outside basic contributions like calling a couple attacks, and so many conversations consist of stock catchphrases and exposition rather than feeling a natural flow of reactions and personality. BW at least established things that allowed the protagonists to be more the stars like not mandating Team Rocket into every episode, while XY shown even with those extra boundaries, they were failing to make use of it. I felt apathetic to them because they felt more like unremarkable chess pieces that happened to have shreds of personality, but too many plots tried to give the pretentious insinuation they were calling every step they took and how far they got.

    I'm not saying any other series, or hell, even a great deal of other anime, doesn't suffer these issues to a dangerous level, but XY definitely felt like the series where the formula had run so stale that they practically had everything on autopilot, likely why SM they decided to just break from the classic approach which suddenly sparked some care for character driven stories.
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2018
  12. Prof. SALTY

    Prof. SALTY The Scruffy Professor

    First, learn to paragraph my dude. Your posts are always just a wall of text and it's really hard to read.

    Second, no anime, shounen or not, has a fight every episode. That does not make it slice of life.

    Third, if I want nice animation, I'll watch SM over XY.
    LilligantLewis and Pokegirl Fan~ like this.
  13. shoz999

    shoz999 The Legend of Mudkip

    What do you mean by...

    "Second, no anime, shounen or not, has a fight every episode. That does not make it slice of life."
  14. Dragalge

    Dragalge Persona Emblem

    Just separate your paragraphs, dude

    Second, he just means that episodes not having a battle doesn’t make anything automatically a SoL anime
    LilligantLewis likes this.
  15. shoz999

    shoz999 The Legend of Mudkip

    Okay, since you seem to understand what he's saying, you explain what he meant by that second sentence.

    Edit: I agree. Which is even more of a reason why XY fits that genre lol.
  16. Genaller

    Genaller Mein Kaiser

    If we’re talking about nice animation (and the better overall visual experience) in battles specifically, then nope XY handidly creams SM.
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  17. shoz999

    shoz999 The Legend of Mudkip

    I'd still give animation in terms of execution to XY. The animation in terms of quality is better in SM and in execution, it's actually really good but it's use of animation at it's greatest is mostly in humor, in fact it's where much of SM's facial patterns come from, overall whereas XY uses it's great animation in nearly all areas outside of battling and you can see it in the beauty and elegance of Serena's dancing, in fact I think it's actually brilliantly animated partially in 3D and there's also Eevee's dancing as well which we can see the animation at display there in fast speeds which really makes Eevee feel like a four-legged dancing Pokemon with her own unique dancing style, or in the swiftness of flying Pokemon in the fly battle and fly racing episodes and of course you got the little details like seeing water animation, dirt or ink in the Pokemon's faces, the trainers hugging their Pokemon showing little things like blushing and fur rubbing against the skin or seeing a brush against a Furfrou's fur and of course good lighting in the background.

    However one thing I really like is the first few episodes. When Pokemon XY aired, a lot of gaming and Nintendo-themed websites were yelling out that "The Pokemon anime is actually good!" I know that some of you don't like this common slogan here but it really did grabbed a lot of returning fan's curiosity in what they were saying and those returning fans, including myself, were blown away by the first episodes and if you know anything about the anime, you can normally judge how good an anime is early on based on the few episodes and wow, the first few Pokemon episodes amazed me. Keep in mind I did not see Best Wishes at this time but I thought the art-style was gorgeous, Ash was actually pretty smart early on and is actually at his most heroic when he was out to save Garchomp and we got introduced to characters like Serena, Clemont and Bonnie but what really amazed people the most was obviously the battle. Pikachu vs. Bunnelby, I am not kidding so many returning fans I talked to were absolutely blown away by what many of you more longer veterans may see as simply a simple fight scene. This battle wasn't just a decent battle, it was an animation demo to get fans pumped up and it did because a few of the Pokemon fans joked that the first battle was so animated well that it was easily the best Pokemon battle yet. I know many of you find this claim absurd but what she and few other people were saying is that the new battle animations was absolutely mind-blowing for the XY series and that isn't even one of the best battles of the entire XY series as a whole.
  18. Prof. SALTY

    Prof. SALTY The Scruffy Professor

    I disagree. If we're just talking battles, XY battles were only so-so for me. A step up from BW but that's not saying much. The SM battles are way more fluid and smoother. The "camera" work is also amazing (Olivia's and Misty's battles with Ash are standouts for me). The battles are shorter and less often but I think that makes them more memorable and less "Ash battled who...? When was that...?".

    And Serena's dances were definitely nothing to write home about. Serena in general has a lot of issues.

    Either one you choose you still get an inferior product to other action heavy anime airing then and now.

    How is XY a slice of life...? Name one anime that has a battle every episode. Even action-oriented anime like Yu-Gi-Oh or Saint Seiya or DBZ have episodes where it's just the characters hanging out or having an infamous beach trip episode.
  19. shoz999

    shoz999 The Legend of Mudkip

    Wait a minute. Do you think the XY series has a battle in every episode and because of that it's not a slice-of-life or not even remotely close to it?
  20. Prof. SALTY

    Prof. SALTY The Scruffy Professor

    No, you're misunderstanding... I'm going to try explain this in a few different ways so forgive me if it sounds repetitive.

    An action anime that does not have a battle every episode SUCH AS XY, DBZ, Kill La Kill, Saint Seiya, Inuyasha, Yu Yu Hakusho, Madoka Magica, ect. is NOT a slice of life anime purely BECAUSE of that. Lack of battles every ep =/= slice of life.

    Let's use Ghost in the Shell Stand Alone Complex as an example. It, like Pokemon XY is an action show though they are aimed at different age demographics. There are several episodes with no action scenes at all both in the Laughing Man case and in the Stand Alone sections. The entire last episode is just characters talking really. This does not make it a slice of life. It's an action Seinen through and through even with those actionless episodes.

    A slice of life is sort of... mundane if that makes sense? The genre thrives on the day-to-day monotony. Lucky Star and Azumanga Daioh are famous examples, both of which chronicle the character's school lives and I can't Understand What My Husband Is Saying is about a woman who married a nerd and can't understand his hobby but loves him anyway. This doesn't mean that weird stuff doesn't happen. Dragon Maid and Orenchi no Furo Jijou are two of my favourite slice of life anime and both involve mythical creatures (dragons and mermen respectively). The appeal is their daily activities though. Just seeing these characters live with humans and adapt to their way of living. Also Wakasa is really really cute.

    Pokemon XY isn't "day-to-day life" in the same sense. The element of the mundane is missing and because it lacks a "hub" which SM does have so it lacks the home/school/work consistency. You cant have a slice of life when you're in a new location (usually several days walk apart) every week.
    LilligantLewis likes this.

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