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How early should coitus be taught in schools and what should the limit be?

AshxSatoshi

Ice Aurelia
A Wisconsin school is under fire for teaching young children about sex, sex apps and positions. Here is a link to the article: https://empowerwisconsin.org/report-sexually-explicit-books-for-3rd-graders-at-elmbrook/



Elmbrook Schools could face a lawsuit for its online library of “sexually explicit” materials that a district parent says are offered to children as young as 3rd grade.

The controversial content reportedly includes a book explaining how sex apps work and a publication featuring full-body nude illustrations of a young boy engaged in masturbation.

The school board’s president and vice president have since issued a statement insisting that the content has never been available to elementary school students, but they acknowledge middle schoolers have had access to the books.

As the Daily Wire reported Tuesday, the offerings include a book that describes traditional views on marriage as “ignorant.” The publication reported that children as young as 8 can access a publication titled, “This Book Is Gay,” which offers a how-to on using Grindr and other sex apps.

Another book, “Queer: The Ultimate LGBT Guide for Teens,” offers students an in-depth analysis of anal sex, oral sex, one-night stands, and “vaginal sex with dildos.”

“What I have a problem with is that our school district’s curation of this sexually charged content in the online school library trespasses on a parent’s right to draw boundaries around the age, environment, context, and point of view from which this kind of sexual information is exposed, shared, described, interpreted, and understood,” Wendy Dorn, an Elmbrook parent activist told The Daily Wire.
 

Zora

perpetually tired
I'll be deferring to this article. I'm not really going to trust a source that prides itself as "Wisconsin’s premiere conservative information hub" to give accurate information.

Let's not gloss over an important fact: the books that were specifically asked to be pulled were queer:
Elmbrook School Board President Scott Wheeler and Vice President Jean Lambert said in a statement on the district's website that the books in question, "[Queer: The Ultimate LGBT Guide for Teens]" and "This Book is Gay," were never available to the district's elementary students.
.....
Second, WILL [the conservative law firm suing Elmbrook] said Elmbrook must also remove any sexually explicit material available outside the district's official human growth and development instruction.
...
Fourth, the district should train its employees to be in compliance with state law on the topics of human growth, development and sexuality. If the training is already provided, WILL requested the district modify the training to explain why its policy of providing sexually explicit materials outside of the statutory confines is illegal.
I have a very hard time believing that the fact the only materials parents objected to as 'sexual explicit' just happened to be two books for a queer teenage audience to be a coincidence.

--------

also, very broadly, sexual education in America is so garbage I think actual garbage might be more instructive, but regardless of when it should happen, sexual education should be queer inclusive. Honestly, I find another story--about a Columbia's high school Porn Literacy Class--far more interesting discussion. This, quite frankly, is just queerphobia appropriating puritanism to pretend it's not queerphobia, which is hardly anything new nor ever benign.
 
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AshxSatoshi

Ice Aurelia
I'll be deferring to this article. I'm not really going to trust a source that prides itself as "Wisconsin’s premiere conservative information hub" to give accurate information.

Let's not gloss over an important fact: the books that were specifically asked to be pulled were queer:

I have a very hard time believing that the fact the only materials parents objected to as 'sexual explicit' just happened to be a queer teenage audience to be a coincidence.

--------

also, very broadly, sexual education in America is so garbage I think actual garbage might be more instructive, but regardless of when it should happen, sexual education should be queer inclusive. Honestly, I find another story--about a Columbia's high school Porn Literacy Class--far more interesting discussion. This, quite frankly, is just queerphobia appropriating puritanism to pretend it's not queerphobia, which is hardly anything new nor ever benign.
In the parents defense we don’t if only gay books were only used to be pulled out of the school. The article could of just referred to those books as part of their agenda. The parents are on the record saying “sexually explicit content” which doesn’t have a sexuality. If that’s not the case and the article wasn’t simply leaving out misinformation than its homophobic.

Also didn’t you argue that children being at pride with a bunch of kink is fine? I would think you’d want them learning about sex early in schools since I believe your argument was sex exposure at an early age isn’t that harmful to children
 

Zora

perpetually tired
In the parents defense we don’t if only gay books were only used to be pulled out of the school. The article could of just referred to those books as part of their agenda. The parents are on the record saying “sexually explicit content” which doesn’t have a sexuality. If that’s not the case and the article wasn’t simply leaving out misinformation than its homophobic.
The article has a primary source. Please read. Yes, this is about two LGBTQIA+ sex education books for teenagers that conservative law firm WIMM, representing the parents, referred to as 'sexually explicit content.' Yes, 'sexual explicit content' is a dogwhistle for 'gay ****.'

Also didn’t you argue that children being at pride with a bunch of kink is fine? I would think you’d want them learning about sex early in schools since I believe your argument was sex exposure at an early age isn’t that harmful to children
a.) yes I said children being at pride, kinks and all, is fine. b.) I don't recall saying 'sex exposure' at early age is harmless. Regardless, wtf is your point?
 
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Teravolt

cilan lives forever in my heart
Q: why are there books teaching teens about sex apps? aren’t those for

consenting adults?

Note: I agree with you all that homophobia and everything related to it is absolutely horrendous.
 

bobjr

You ask too many questions
Staff member
Moderator
Education is about giving kids the tools to teach themselves along with teaching the actual topic. So with something like sex apps it’s important to inform them what might be on something like that or potential dangers they could encounter.

The worst thing to do is basically leave kids in the dark.
 

Zora

perpetually tired
Q: why are there books teaching teens about sex apps? aren’t those for

consenting adults?

Note: I agree with you all that homophobia and everything related to it is absolutely horrendous.
helpful if you see what's being discussed, per letter WIMM sent. It's on PDF page 5, the first example they show--the textbook's advice is educational. E.g. letting people know since these apps ban words like 'sex,' 'shag,' and '****', the word 'fun' becomes *the* euphemism for 'sexual intercourse.'

And although sex apps are for adults, high school is the last time people have compulsory education, so it's still important to teach adult things even if they're not immediately useful.
 
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Teravolt

cilan lives forever in my heart
helpful if you see what's being discussed, per letter WIMM sent. It's on PDF page 5, the first example they show--the textbook's advice is educational. E.g. letting people know since these apps ban words like 'sex,' 'shag,' and '****', the word 'fun' becomes *the* euphemism for 'sexual intercourse.'

And although sex apps are for adults, high school is the last time people have compulsory education, so it's still important to teach adult things even if they're not immediately useful.
why would a sex app ban the word sex? especially if adults are using it
smh
update: that book about gay stuff seems informative and educational.
 
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bobjr

You ask too many questions
Staff member
Moderator
It’s standard in schools for parents to opt out of sex education, it’s not forced on them, and the issue tends to be if the kid wants to learn and the parent doesn’t want them to more than anything else.

But in scenarios like this it seems to be just as much that some parents don’t want there to be resources for LGBT kids, when they’re already heavily discriminated against.
 

Captain Jigglypuff

Leader of Jigglypuff Army
I think kids should be educated on the subject in a way that they can understand. Don’t leave out important details or say that some diseases are only spread via sex. And don’t play some video that talks about abortion but doesn’t exactly say what it means. I had to sit through this class when I was in a private Christian school for seventh and eighth grade that parents had to fill out a form if they wanted their kids to be a part of it or not and they really did not explain a thing. All I heard was that sex before marriage was a sin and you needed to repent and that abortion was a bad thing but it was never explained what that word meant. It was as if all the kids already knew what those things were. Nothing was explained at all and it was more of an anti-abortion propaganda seminar. I literally had to look up the word “abortion” in the dictionary to even figure out what they were talking about. Kids may not know everything and need to be taught stuff but sheltering them from important information and giving mixed and incorrect messages is just as bad as not teaching them at all.
 

Sadib

Time Lord Victorious
Let the parents decide that. Judging from the article the parents were not aware what their kids were learning this in the school. Not sure how every school works but my parent was given my syllabus on the first day of school and how the year would look. So I'm not sure how this went over the parents heads unless the schools don't mention this outright (which is problematic) or the parents just didn't do their due diligence. Nonetheless I think this is a case by case basis and ultimately the parents should be involved if their kids are learning about sex before High School (so young kids). Sex education is typically taught in schools (at least where I'm from) but by that age most people have an idea but for the people who don't there should be classes. However if they chose to not let their kids learn about sex in school a conversation would eventually need to be had with the kid I suppose.
My school never taught me about sex and neither did my parents.
 

Reinhardt

You! Me! Rivals! Yes?
I remember I was relatively young, 9 to be exact, when my school did the first stage of sex education. But it primarily focused on the biological aspect, the different parts of each gender's genitalia, the sperm cell's journey through the fallopian tube, that kind of thing. Contriception, safe sex and abortion weren't taught until much later, when we were mid-teens and getting closer to the age of consent (which is 16 in my country). More explicit stuff like positions wasn't covered at all, and I'd say that's fair enough. Sex education is an important thing to teach to children, as long as it doesn't go too far and is presented in a way they can understand, and I don't think any child should be excluded from it regardless of what their parents think.
 

Gamzee Makara

Flirtin' With Disaster
It should be mandatory to teach the purpose of and how sexual reproduction works, the anatomy and functionality function of the reproductive systems, the concept, philosophy of and insistence on adherence to consent, distinguishing sexual fantasy from reality in media, unbiased basics about the types and history of oppression of queer people, how to care for the health of genitals, an unbiased look on how to determine your gender identity and sexuality, how to have a healthy pregnancy and birth, basic, unbiased, science-based STD, abortion and pregnancy information, and basic newborn, infant, toddler and child care.

Anything else(Positions, masturbation, abortion other than as an option in the concept of healthcare, advanced child care etc.) requires a letter and evaluation from a certified accredited medical doctor of mental health(Not a religious text, meme, philosophical quote, politician, uncertified author or quack/from quackery), explaining why your child is incapable of processing these concepts, to be exempt from discussion of said subjects.
 

PrinceOfFacade

Ghost-Type Master
I think Human Biology should be taught in Grade 5 (ages 10-11), while Sexual Education should be taught in Grade 6 (ages 12-13).

I think Gender Studies should be taught as a separate class, also in Grade 6, so youth can understand the differences between sex and gender. Also, I do feel that students should learn about dating apps and the social and psychological parameters behind them, but not at 3rd grade. I think that should come around middle school (ages 13-17). I think the worst mistake we can make is waiting until they're all in college to start teaching them. By then, they've already been taught by something else.
 

Auraninja

Eh, ragazzo!
Also didn’t you argue that children being at pride with a bunch of kink is fine? I would think you’d want them learning about sex early in schools since I believe your argument was sex exposure at an early age isn’t that harmful to children
Okay, I have to point this out, but the main argument in the "Pride Discourse" thread is that kinks are not necessarily sexual explicit or NSFW.
 

luisharp

New Member
I think children learn about it so early because of the internet and the amount of information there that it is probably pointless to even talk about it at school...Because now it is just soo easy, something like to google "who can i pay to do my essay" and to find a professional teacher to handle your writing task!
 
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Sadib

Time Lord Victorious
I think children learn about it so early because of the internet and the amount of information there that it is probably pointless to even talk about it at school...Because now it is just soo easy, something like to google "who can i pay to do my essay" and to find a professional teacher to handle your writing task!
I think they should learn about it correctly, which they probably won't get from the internet.
 

Pokefan_1987

Avid Pokemon TCG Card collector.
For all of my cents worth my parents never taught me or my brother or sister about. I never had a girlfriend for very long and modern families seem to learn about it as they see fit.

I think this shouldn't be discussed on a forum dedicated to a franchise
 

Zora

perpetually tired
I think they should learn about it correctly, which they probably won't get from the internet.
I *had* to learn from the Internet because all sex ed assumes everyone is cishet. And given parents' reluctance to talk about sex ed, as well as quality of most sex ed courses nationwide, the Internet is often the de facto place people need to learn. I don't know if there's any better advice than rely on information that looks educational.
 

emberknake

New Member
This situation can be viewed from two sides. Of course, it is not morally right for elementary school students to start learning about sexual life. One if this program is prepared for high school students then it is good. At their age, it's good to know the basics about your reproductive function to prevent problems later.
 
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