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How far do you think the Fairy type has progressed?

Discussion in 'Pokémon Sword & Shield Discussion' started by shoz999, Sep 23, 2018.

  1. shoz999

    shoz999 Sonic's the name! Speed's my game!

    So if you've been here at least since Gen 6, you'd know that the Fairy type is still relatively a new type that hasn't matured on the same level as other types yet, or at least that's what I think. This is also Pokemon's take on the "Holy" type seen in other RPGs. Fairy types were created to balance out dragon-types and to give Pokemon like Spiritomb or Sabeleye who had no weakness previously, now have weaknesses. Currently they now make up a huge part of the meta, many dragon users getting more prepared and more cautious for potentially dangerous matches thanks to the Fairy-typing. So what do you think of the fairy type so far? Do you think it's still new? There's still lots of experimental type combinations to test out? Do you think it was unnecessary still? What do you think of the type changes and new fairy-type Pokemon? How well do you think they were introduced in other media? How do you think fairy-types have progresses since Gen 6 in just 2013.


    [​IMG]
    Who better to represent fairy-types then the one who challenged Arceus himself, Togebo lol. This little guy defeated two of Lance's ace Pokemon long before he evolved into Togekiss. I wonder if it's a coincidence that Dragonite and Tyranitar happen to be weak to fairy-types.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2018
  2. I think it's odd how some Pokemon like the Blissey line were not given it.
     
    shoz999 likes this.
  3. Zhydra

    Zhydra Master of Chaos!

    To be blunt, fairy types were a MUCH needed balance against dragons.

    Hydreigon use to dominate the meta game before they showed up and Scrafty was a bulky devil that he needed an effective shut down before it sets up and takes you down like a gangster.

    In addition, fairy types give a more prominent reason to make poison and steel types viable to use offensively. Most pokemon weak to this type have a steel or poison move equipped to compensate for the crippling weakness.

    Their is always a balance for things.
     
    Orphalesion likes this.
  4. shoz999

    shoz999 Sonic's the name! Speed's my game!

    Fairy types - "THE DRAGON'S REIGN OF TERROR IS OVER!"
    Everyone - "YAY!"
    Fairy types "NOW WELCOME OUR REIGN OF TERROR!"
    Everyone "YAAA... wha?"

    Honestly though the metagame is far more balanced with fairy types. Even before Hydreigon, Garchomp powercreeped so many Pokemon since Gen 4, the guy could take out entire teams easily if you didn't had the proper counters.
     
    Orphalesion likes this.
  5. Mega Altaria

    Mega Altaria ☆~Shiny hunter▢~

    Well Outrage spam and DragMag were more common before the introduction of Fairies and certainly destroyed teams back then, especially in Gen 4 when the Steel-types weren’t as great and the Dragon-types dominated the meta. But at least it’s more balanced after Fairies were introduced. And it was interesting to see a full scale war between the two sides. But it has now pretty much receded as pretty much everyone has finally accepted the Fairy-type. Even if a number of Fairies aren’t great in competitive, there are some that still dominate and maintain that balance. I think it’ll depend on what meta Game Freak will expect but I expect at least one evolutionary line of a competitive Fairy-type.
     
  6. Zhydra

    Zhydra Master of Chaos!

    Fairy types counter dragons and otherwise bulky dark types.

    Then we have poison types and steel types can counter fairy types easily. (Naganadel, Tentacruel and Metagross all come into mind for effective/ brutal counters against nearly all of them baring Klefki, who can get shut down with a ground type. "Because they are immune to thunder wave.")

    It all balances out with the types.
     
  7. I like how it prevents the Psychic type from being the default "Magic" type.
     
  8. Sulfurian

    Sulfurian Well-Known Member

    Should have made them weak to bug, as the type just needs one more strength to make it viable. Most bugs just rely on tinted lens or quiver dance to do anything
     
    Lucky3 likes this.
  9. shoz999

    shoz999 Sonic's the name! Speed's my game!

    Kind of felt like the original Ninetales should've gotten a fairy typing as well. It's based on the mythological kitsune, a fox of nine tails.
     
    04n70n10 likes this.
  10. If that happened we would have both a fairy and a dark kitsune.
     
  11. pikanewb

    pikanewb WiteMic

    They are so broken. LOL. I love it though. It's progressing very well. Mimikyu is honestly my favorite Mon with Pikachu. I hope they get more attacks in Gen 8.
     
    Ducolamia likes this.
  12. Ducolamia

    Ducolamia SAYYYY WHAT???

    Agreed. They were so needed. People who don't like Fairy types for "ruining the meta" do not know how it was like playing against a fighting type or dragon type pre gen 5 and realizing you're screwed because they have so much coverage against you.

    The main problem before was that Dragon type became too good after gen 3. So many dragon types can cover almost all their weaknesses it's insane. And that's not including their stats or abilities.

    For example, Garchomp can learn Fire Blast and Stone Edge. Minus the accuracy that can be negated with an item, Ice types can't do jack to it. Even with a 4x weakness that thing is not going down with a one-hit stab Blizzard unless you are stronger. That and it's ability Sand Veil and Rough Skin make it even harder to survive it's attacks while having to deal with it's outrageous (haha) attacks.

    It's not that it doesn't have weaknesses the issue is that GF refuses to make those weaknesses efficient ENOUGH. Give me the name of an ice type that can match with Garchomp or Hydreigon pre gen 5 that doesn't have lackluster stats and is not a legendary. Guess what? It doesn't exist. Even the most competent Ice type paired with another typing will still be K.O'd by a dragon type move. The only way to beat dragon types before was to have a stronger pokemon (usually a dragon) to destroy them or just have one move to spam as coverage.

    When Fairies came around, I finally didn't have to worry about a random dragon type trainer completely destroying me because I wasn't well-prepared. With a fairy type, you at least stand a fighting chance. Now, I think some of the typings are a bit mismatched ( I know we still need normal types but a majority of them could've been fairies) but I'm not holding my breathe. Any pokemon that has the Fairy type added onto them automatically has an advantage in my book.
     
  13. Minedreigon

    Minedreigon A monument to all your sins

    Fairy type is stupid. It was introduced and advertised as a balancing agent but it’s just made the metagame polarised towards itself instead due to the poor execution. Let’s take a look:

    1) Two weaknesses. And both of them are terrible offensive types. This makes it a really good defensive type becuase they have rarely desirable to use weaknesses, great resists such as dark and fighting, and an immunity to dragon.

    2) Neutral coverage rivalling the effectiveness of dragon’s, with even better things to hit SE, those being dragon itself, but also dark and fighting. So it’s also an awesome STAB offensive type. You see the problem? It’s one of the best types in the entire game at both ends of the spectrum!

    3) LOOK AT ALL THE TOP TIER OU FAIRY TYPES! Magearna, Tapus, Clefable, Mega Mawile, heck even Ninetales A is there. There are more fairy types in SM OU then there were dragon types in BW OU. Why isn’t this ringing alarm bells?!

    4) For a balancing type, they sure did a bad job making it RESIST BUG! What the heck?! Bug is bad? Why would you make it worse!

    5) For a balancing type, they sure did a bad job making steel even better! This type was already incredible! Making it resist and beat what is now one of the new best types in the game is dumb.

    I propose the following to fix the type:

    1) Add a bug weakness instead of a resist.

    2) Add a weakness that is actually a good offensive type, probably fire or ice.

    This would balance the type imho.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2018
    RoySceptile and Scammel like this.
  14. Trainer Yusuf

    Trainer Yusuf VolcaniNO

    So what do you think of the fairy type so far?
    *It's my second favourite type so far. I have been a fan of the more "Magic" or "Myth" oriented Psychic-types and "Cleric" oriented Normal-types, so it is nice to see that have a type that combines both. I don't necessarily think this type covers the RPG archetype of "Holy" element, as unlike Yu-Gi-Oh!'s Fairy type, this type is closer to SMT definition of Fairies.
    Do you think it's still new?
    *Yes. Especially in terms of moves and move accessibility Fairy is still very new. There are no Fairy-type Move Tutors and only Physical Fairy move remains to be Play Rough. There is also not enough variance between Base Powers in the attacks, so there aren't a lot of mid and early game moves to draw from.
    There's still lots of experimental type combinations to test out?
    *That is correct. We know all of them will be covered by this generation and the next, but even with that there are still more typings that can be used, as Fairy is used as a primary type only in the Togepi-line and monotype Fairies, and a good chunk of the existing unique combinations(like Ice/Fairy, Ghost/Fairy and Fairy/Flying) deserve to be reused soon.
    Do you think it was unnecessary still?
    *Nope. I still hope next type buffs Ice-types, though.
    What do you think of the type changes and new fairy-type Pokemon?
    *Good, but there needs to be more and Fairy-type needs to be more evenly distributed amongst gens as everybody else said. Despite being one of the major types competitively, in-game Fairy is just another semi-rare early mid-game type like Psychic and Dark, so there isn't much reason to introduce too few of them per gen.
    How well do you think they were introduced in other media?
    *Badly except for the TCG. Because the bulk of the Fairy-types were and are existing species, new lore related to Fairy-types has not been built yet. It is similar to Steel-type in Gen 3 in that regard. But this will likely change next gen.
    How do you think fairy-types have progresses since Gen 6 in just 2013?
    *Unnecessarily better, IMHO. There were other prominent types that needed more attention like Ghost and Ground-types, so it feels like Fairy-type is being spoiled by the insane amount of new species and forms it gets each gen. I know GameFreak wants this type to replace Psychic as the dominant legendary-gimmick type, but they probably shouldn't.
     
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  15. Mr. Reloaded

    Mr. Reloaded An enigma

    I don't like the busted Tapus, particularly Koko and Lele. But playing Black and White OU back in the day, you could tell there was a major problem with Fighting and Dragon types.

    Garchomp is almost a completely irrelevant Pokémon now, base Latios is finally getting beat out by its mega, it's incredible how far we've come.

    I do wish there were more physical moves than Play Rough, more accurate ones at that.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2018
    shoz999 likes this.
  16. Mega Altaria

    Mega Altaria ☆~Shiny hunter▢~

    Definitely. There is only one physical Fairy-type move and that is it and yeah, it doesn't really have the best accuracy. At least it gets a decent special move that has a chance of lowering Special Attack. But I think the moves definitely need a lot of progress to improve its progress but to be fair, I think that is kinda alright considering that it's a new type.
     
  17. Scammel

    Scammel Well-Known Member

    In terms of power, Fairy is in strong contention for the best single type, and I think this is well borne out by the number and proportion of Fairies in OU. In Gen 7 the type didn't have the chance to truly flex its muscles due to a relatively limited species list, but the rise of the Tapus has demonstrated how easy it is to staple good stats onto the type and create a monster.

    Mechanically, I don't have a massive issue with this. Dragon, Dark and Fighting all were and mostly still are very potent types. Poison has been Ice-level dross for years and Steel badly needed more offensive utility.

    Thematically, I have no idea what's going on. I know there's almost certainly a cultural thing I'm not getting here, but Fairy very much feels like an arbitrary sticking plaster, a number in an equation rather than a thematically coherent grouping. I don't know why it hits those types super-effectively other than the fact that they are mechanically powerful types, and I have no idea why it is weak to those types other than the fact that they were mechanically limited types. I especially don't know why it resists Bug, which now needs a buff as badly as Rock and Ice.

    It also irritates me that the type is so explicitly feminine. The series has done a good job of reflecting multiple shapes, sizes and colours in every type so that very few feel remotely exclusionary (bar maybe Fighting?), but Fairy is stuffed with pinkish hues, flowers and delicate imagery to the point that it strikes me as stereotypically 'for girls'. It feels almost... patronising? Funnily enough, the Tapus are the ones who have bucked this trend to the greatest extent thus far.

    Can anyone with serious Japanese cultural knowledge fill in the blanks on this one? What manner of fey creature is the bane of dragons and martial artists in Japanese mythology? I'd hate to think that this is just a generic 'effeminate' type that beats up bad things because they are bad, but I struggle to see it as much else.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2018
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  18. Orphalesion

    Orphalesion Well-Known Member

    Fairy is, by far, my absolute favourite type. I had 4 fairy types in my team during my first playthrough of Moon. It features my favorite starter (Primarina), my favorite Ice Type (A. Ninetales) and added a secondary type to one of my favourite Gen 1 Pokemon (Jigglypuff). I don't like every fairy type (ew, go away Dedenne, you look like Raichu ate Hamtaro and threw him back up) but I like the majority of them.
    And I love that those cute/pretty/harmless looking creatures were created to counter dragons X-D And I love the rage Fairy type still causes in some people, especially since, even with the immunity and super effectiveness it's not at all impossible for dragons to counter fairies X-D

    Personally I won't be completely satisfied until there is at least one non-legendary, non-mega evolution line of every type, so yes I think fairy type still has lots of potential
    Not everything mythological is fairy type though, nor should it be. That being said Kitsune with their trickery, playfulness and allure might fit the fairy type quite well.


    If you look at a lot of Anime and Japanese games, they seem to have an affinity for cute/pretty things being able to own the big, menacing monster. So personally I think that's one reason they are strong against dragon.Though the idea of harmless/cute/pretty creatures being able to destroy menacing monsters is something that seems to be features in a lot of modern western fantasy. It's a little Hobbit that defeats both Sauron and the Dragon Smaug, it's the pretty Last Unicorn that confesses to having killed multiple dragons in her lifetime and who ultimately destroys the Red Bull, a huge, bovine monster made of flame.
    The other reason might be the cliche of Fairy Tales featuring the killing of a dragon to rescue a princess, and the Disney version of Sleeping Beauty having Dragon maleficent being defeated by the three good fairies. In reality the killing of a dragon to rescue a virgin is more often the theme of legends about saints rather than fairy tales.Though it can be said that many fairy types, especially legends such as Xerneas, but also normal ones such as Guardevoir have something slightly "holy" and protecting about them, so it fits very well.
    As for the strong against fighting; in many legends and folktales you can't win against Fairies/Elves by brute force or fighting prowess, since they will use magic and trickery to win. I think that's were the Fighting Type weakness to Fairy derives from.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2018
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  19. Creyk

    Creyk Well-Known Member

    I think they saved the next physical fairy move for gen 8. Like, they are planning for the long-term here.
    I could see a base 75 power fairy punch coming our way
     
  20. paipr_christian

    paipr_christian grass type fan.

    I think Fairy type is still getting it's footing.

    Gen6 introduced (or reinvented some Pokemon as ) Fairy type. And it honestly seems alot of them were very strong well rounded contenders.

    Gen7 introduced more, but it seems most aren't in the same tiers as the gen6 Fairy types (note I said most obviously not all).

    The type overall reminds me alot of Psychic type back in the day. They tend to have a lot of Move options, are strong special attackers, and tend to have strong special defenses.

    Over all I like the type, and almost see it as the "Magic" type. I'd like to see more type combos and more variety in the attacks (aka more physical Fairy attacks and decent special options besides Dazzling Gleam and Moon last).
     
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