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How good will be certain Pokémon if they had certain ability/move(s)/typing?

Lucariomen

Well-Known Member
*sends this thread upwards again because yes*

What if the Tapus had Recover, Shell Smash (because they do have shells) and terrain-boosted moves (Rising Voltage/Expanding Force/Grassy Glide/Misty Explosion) respectively? Examples of what I think that would happen:

Tapu Lele:

I feel like Lele could be great in Ubers, as with a single Shell Smash, it outspeeds anything except Regieleki or boosted stuff. Priority is out of the question duo to Psychic Surge, and she has coverage enough to hit, for example, Dark- and Steel-Types. I think the only thing that could wall Tapu Lele after a Shell Smash would actually be Calyrex-Shadow, as when wearing a Choice Scarf, the mighty horse can actually outspeed it and be punished by a single Astral Barrage, assuming Focus Sash was used up on the Shell Smash.

Tapu Fini:

Weakest in terms of terrain moves and not such a great Shell Smasher, could possibly stay in OU duo to 170 Speed and 190 Special Attack on a Shell Smash isn't great. Tapu Fini isn't built for sweeping, it is a defensive wall made for taking hits, and Recover would make it stand on the field more, possibly increasing its OU usage and possibly giving it minor Uber usage.
 

Divine Retribution

It's me that I spite as I stand up and fight
Tapu Fini:

Weakest in terms of terrain moves and not such a great Shell Smasher, could possibly stay in OU duo to 170 Speed and 190 Special Attack on a Shell Smash isn't great.


Shell Smash (as well as most other stat boosts) doesn't double the base stats, it doubles the actual stats, including the increases from EVs and IVs. This is effectively much more than a doubled base stat. This means, for example, that Azumarill with Huge Power has the effective Attack stat of a Pokemon with 149 base Attack, despite having a base Attack stat of only 50.

Tapu Fini, after a Shell Smash, would have the effective Sp. Atk stat of a fully EV/IV'd Pokemon with 245 base Sp. Atk and a Speed stat that would be just shy of a base 220's natural Speed.
 

Sceptile Leaf Blade

Nighttime Guardian
*sends this thread upwards again because yes*

What if the Tapus had Recover, Shell Smash (because they do have shells) and terrain-boosted moves (Rising Voltage/Expanding Force/Grassy Glide/Misty Explosion) respectively? Examples of what I think that would happen:

Tapu Lele:

I feel like Lele could be great in Ubers, as with a single Shell Smash, it outspeeds anything except Regieleki or boosted stuff. Priority is out of the question duo to Psychic Surge, and she has coverage enough to hit, for example, Dark- and Steel-Types. I think the only thing that could wall Tapu Lele after a Shell Smash would actually be Calyrex-Shadow, as when wearing a Choice Scarf, the mighty horse can actually outspeed it and be punished by a single Astral Barrage, assuming Focus Sash was used up on the Shell Smash.

Tapu Fini:

Weakest in terms of terrain moves and not such a great Shell Smasher, could possibly stay in OU duo to 170 Speed and 190 Special Attack on a Shell Smash isn't great. Tapu Fini isn't built for sweeping, it is a defensive wall made for taking hits, and Recover would make it stand on the field more, possibly increasing its OU usage and possibly giving it minor Uber usage.
I reckon they'd all be completely broken. Shell smash is a hugely powerful boosting move, with that speed and power behind them they'd sweep pretty much everything, effectively like Xerneas without needing a power herb. Tapu Bulu in particular would be insane, after a single Shell Smash it could OHKO most stuff on neutral hits with Horn Leech, keeping itself healthy in the process, while having Wood Hammer for smashing through sturdier resists. Tapu Bulu would have so much power grass resists wouldn't matter as much, it just smashes through (unless it's like Skarmory or Ferrothorn, but Life Orb or Miracle Seed Wood Hammer would OHKO most 2x resists). And it's fast, Jolly Bulu outspeeds Timid Regieleki after a single Shell Smash. Adamant Bulu outspeeds Modest Regieleki after Shell Smash. And all the other Tapus are even faster.
Tapu Lele with just Expanding Force would already be insane, with both Expanding Force and Shell Smash it would be way beyond even Xerneas. It's essentially Xerneas with priority protection, free item choice, and much more power.
The other two would be similarly broken.
 

Pokefan_1987

#1 Biggest self proclaimed Rotom-Dex hater.
Here's a ability i would want to design.

Tough Body (Hidden Ability) Limited to Charizard, along with others that have 4x weaknesses.

This ability reduces super effective move damage to 50% if opponents move would cause 4x times super effective damage.
Stealth Rock also has no effects on users with this ability.

This would allow pokemon like Charizard able to better survive it's against it's crippling Rock type weakness and reduce the need to use Heavy Duty Boots.
 
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Lucariomen

Well-Known Member
Here's a ability i would want to design.

Tough Body (Hidden Ability) Limited to Charizard, along with others that have 4x weaknesses.

This ability reduces super effective move damage to 50% if opponents move would cause 4x times super effective damage.
Stealth Rock also has no effects on users with this ability.

This would allow pokemon like Charizard able to better survive it's against it's crippling Rock type weakness and reduce the need to use Heavy Duty Boots.!*
An immunity to Stealth Rock and neutralization of a 4x weakness would make so many Pokémon much better, specially key Pokémon with a weakness to SR. Weavile for example could be banworthy not because of its 4x Fighting weakness, but because of the SR immunity, as wouldn't need to have HDB and it could choose something else as an item, such as Choice Band, Life Orb, Focus Sash or Lum Berry.

Ferrothorn would also become a much better wall. A Pokemon that bulky with an immunity to Toxic, losing its 4x weakness on a metagame that banned trapping? Ferro would become a staple on every team as a physical wall without fearing Heatran, for example. Speaking of Heatran, losing its Ground weakness would make it much more reliable as a whole, and would give it more possible items to hold, as Air Balloon Heatran is somewhat common, specially on early tiers.

Volcarona would particularly enjoy the SR immunity as it now ditches HDB and Life Orb boosted attacks after a Quiver Dance are much more threatning! Water-Grounds such as Swampert, Seismitoad and Quagsire wouldn't fear the uncommon Grass-Type anymore... though there would be one fatal flaw on this ability: the fact that it is an ability. The aforementioned Quagsire would lose Unaware, and the mighty Ferrothorn would become less threatning without Iron Barbs.

So, in conclusion: I think Tough Body would be an incredible ability to many Pokémon, but wouldn't also be as spammable as many could think (I include me in this statement XD). Pokémon like Weavile and Volcarona could afford losing their respective abilities as they weren't as showstoppingly great as for example, Seismitoad's Poison Touch or Lando-T's Intimidate. It's my opinion, though! I wonder what other people would think of this ability...

*also this thread is important I will never let it come down XD*
 

Lucariomen

Well-Known Member
Some suggestion/questions!

  • Florges gets the ability Magic Guard as a secondary ability as its primary and hidden abilities are useless in singles;
  • Alomomola returns with Flip Turn;
  • Zamazenta and Zamazenta-Crowned gets Body Press and Behemoth Bash is now calculated with the user's Physical Defense;
  • Jumpluff gets Taunt, Spore and Sticky Web, with Infiltrator now ignoring Magic Bounce.

What I think would happen:

  • Florges would probably become much more prominent in the game, but I don't think it would be enough to push it to OU, as Blissey, Chansey and even Toxapex are typically better walls.
  • Alomomola would definitely become an OU staple, as its biggest drawback that prevented that from happening (even with its tremendous 165 HP, the coveted monowater type and access to Wish) was its lack of midgame mobility. I could easily see Wish/Protect/Scald or Toxic/Flip Turn sets being widespread on stall teams.
  • Zamazenta and Zamazenta-Crowned would both ecome much better Uber threats, but not bigger than their counterpart. While the Zamazentas would appreciate the stronger STABs, the lack of superboosted coverage makes it more easily walled, specially since it lacks a reliable boosting move such Swords Dance or Dragon Dance, having to make do with Howl.
  • Jumpluff was given several new tools to play and would probably excel as a sleep-clause less lead. Sticky Web, Taunt and being immune to Spore itself and being able to fire one of its own makes it far outclass popular web leads such as Galvantula, Shuckle and Smeargle, while having an excellent speed tier. Infiltrator ignoring Magic Bounce would also help to dispatch M-Sableye and M-Diancie. Even without sleep clause, Jumpluff could still put something to sleep and do its job, as it can either keep itself around for a little longer with Strength Sap and U-turn or do a last job as it dies, like setting up Leech Seed or using Toxic on something. Overall, I expect Jumpluff to be an astouding lead in lower and higher tiers alike.
What's your opinion on those changes on those Pokémon? Please reply below your ideas!
 

Divine Retribution

It's me that I spite as I stand up and fight
  • Florges gets the ability Magic Guard as a secondary ability as its primary and hidden abilities are useless in singles;

This probably wouldn't be competing with Chansey/Blissey or Toxapex but rather with Clefable. While it does boast significantly higher special bulk than Clefable, Clefable has a vastly better movepool with important moves like Stealth Rock, Teleport, and an array of coverage options that will still make it the better pick on the majority of teams. Florges could theoretically see use on stall teams, but Clefable on stall was already likely to be Unaware so even then it would still probably be the pick.

  • Alomomola returns with Flip Turn;

I think you're overselling this thing a bit. A slow Flip Turn would be nice and would certainly make Alomomola a viable pivot but Wish passing in general is a momentum sink that a lot of team archetypes can't afford, and Alomomola does itself no favors by being extremely passive. It could definitely see some use on fat teams but it changes very little about Alomomola's overall passivity and lopsided defenses.

  • Zamazenta and Zamazenta-Crowned gets Body Press and Behemoth Bash is now calculated with the user's Physical Defense;

These buffs are nice. Not enough to push Zamazenta that much higher in the viability rankings but certainly nice buffs that fill in a couple key gaps in its current movepool.

  • Jumpluff gets Taunt, Spore and Sticky Web, with Infiltrator now ignoring Magic Bounce.

I won't really talk about the wider implications of Infiltrator ignoring Magic Bounce, nor on the potential impacts on a Sleep Clause-less metagame as that's frankly gross. The big problem with saying this would far outclass Shuckle and Smeargle is Stealth Rock. Shuckle and Smeargle offer role compression that Sticky Web teams often absolutely need; Jumpluff does not. A fast Taunt and Spore are both really nice and would definitely net Jumpluff a slot on some Webs builds, but it's not a case of "just replace every Shuckle/Smeargle with Jumpluff" because in a lot of cases Jumpluff simply can't fulfill the same role that the other two were fulfilling. In fact, overall I'd say the role compression the former two offer would probably put them higher in viability than Jumpluff even with these buffs. Webs teams are already usually starved both for team and move slots, so having to dedicate a moveslot and turn (and potentially even a team slot if nothing else on your team could otherwise have carried them) on another Pokemon for rocks that should otherwise be abusing Webs as aggressively as possible is a massive downside.
 

Sceptile Leaf Blade

Nighttime Guardian
Very fast Spore is quite gross though, there's reason why it's a move never learned by anything remotely fast, Breloom is still the fastest user of it aside from Smeargle which has horrible stats everywhere else.
 

Divine Retribution

It's me that I spite as I stand up and fight
Very fast Spore is quite gross though, there's reason why it's a move never learned by anything remotely fast, Breloom is still the fastest user of it aside from Smeargle which has horrible stats everywhere else.
I agree, it was more the implication that it would eclipse Smeargle and Shuckle as a hazard setter that I don't agree with. Fast Spore definitely has uses on its own. I could see it being extremely annoying in doubles, and it gets plenty of other support moves to abuse as well.
 

Divine Retribution

It's me that I spite as I stand up and fight
It's not bulky enough to get away with that lol, something like Celesteela would completely annihilate it with Heavy Slam.

0 Atk Celesteela Heavy Slam (100 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragonite: 114-135 (35.2 - 41.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Granted, Dragonite doesn't do much in return unless it's packing Fire Punch, but Multiscale doesn't change that.

The bigger problem would be that Dragonite barely benefits from No Guard (the only inaccurate moves it gets are special moves, aside from Iron Tail as a somewhat stronger option to hit Fairies I suppose) and while Aerilate with Extreme Speed would be decent, the set-up opportunities Multiscale provides are just too good to pass up in most cases. With the introduction of Dual Wingbeat and Heavy-Duty Boots as well as making a great Dynamax user, I think Dragonite is competitively in the best spot it's been in since Gen 5. I see no real need for it to receive further buffs, although something tells me the other user might be a little... biased.
 

Sceptile Leaf Blade

Nighttime Guardian
No Guard Dragon Rush would be neat, but whether its better than Multiscale is debatable especially since No Guard would also make it more vulnerable to Stone Edge and stuff.
 

Divine Retribution

It's me that I spite as I stand up and fight
Dragon Rush is weaker than Outrage, although admittedly having no drawbacks besides the poor accuracy. Regardless, Dragon STABs aren't nearly as valuable to Dragonite as they used to be now that it has a reliable Flying move. I don't think a perfectly accurate Dragon Rush would be nearly enough to justify giving up Multiscale.
 
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