How important is subtlety to you in the anime? Is it enough in the anime?Does it need a larger role?

[shoz999]

In the Pokemon Adventures manga, a common story element that is used is subtlety that can express and tell a lot of complicated matters through different signs or signals, usually hidden but visible enough to a certain few. I do believe that the anime does have this too however I also don't recall much. Subtle storytelling is a great way to get an idea, explain details, see another side of a character or explain what's going on. It can be successfully done without even uttering a single word. From this, some of the most iconic and powerful scenes are created.

For example, this picture above. If your familiar on who Silver and Giovanni are, you can guess a lot of family dynamics are going on in-between this seemingly simple scene. Your probably thinking Giovanni is up to no good, you can tell something is puzzling Silver. To give you an idea what's happening, Giovanni is smiling proudly at the fact of how much his son has grown up over the years but at the same time, he intends to lead Team Rocket regardless what Silver thinks, something the rocket grunts at the back are anticipating. Silver on the other hand is trying to process this. Meanwhile the Team Rocket Grunts are excitedly awaiting for their visionary leader to say or do something during this moment of silence as Giovanni simply ignores the grunts for now. The way they act kind of reminds you of Jessie and James actually lol. If we take plot spoilers into account however, this scene gets even FAR MORE complicated than what I've already said, symbolizing an uncertain but actually fairly bright future. This is a great example of how subtly strong and complicated a deceptively simple scene can be upon first glance. And I do recall the Pokemon anime does have a it's share of memorable subtle moments that holds more than meets the eye.

A great example of subtlety comes from Pokemon anime is Pokemon: Spell of the Unown. So much powerful characteristics or signs can happen in this movie without uttering a single word. A great example is Molly who I personally think is easily the best Pokemon villain of the entire Pokemon anime series. In this picture, here we see a very fearful look on her face as Ash reaches out to her. She's not actually afraid of Ash if you watched the movie. No, she's afraid of reality, the harsh reality that for a long time she's chosen to ignore. She's afraid that this dream-like world she created will go away and that also means Entei and Delilah who she pretends are her father and mother. She's afraid that she may have to accept the reality that her real father and real mother might actually be gone... for good. That they were never here to begin with during the dream-like world and the thought of this is terrifying to Molly whose just a little girl who doesn't want to be alone.

This is a great example of how powerful subtle storytelling can be, especially the Molly example for the anime. It can tell how a character feels or reacts towards a person, object or place. It can be a very powerful tool for storytelling and will undoubtedly lead to a bunch of fan theories if it gets a surge of it and is done well of course. In fact it's subtle storytelling that delivered one of the saddest episode featuring Stoutland who was slowly getting weaker, leaves slowly falling apart from the tree as time passes. It's hinted that Stoutland is going to pass away soon. The episode doesn't show Stoutland's lifeless body rather, he just vanishes while Litten sleeps. Litten realizes that Stoutland is gone. It's also subtlety that delivered one of the most surprising episodes of the ENTIRE Pokemon series and caused a surge of amour shippers, yes you pretty much know what I'm talking about. I am of course talking about the time Serena actually kissed Ash but here's the thing. They never actually show it, it's implied that it happened by Ash's friends red-faced shocked behavior, Ash just standing their trying to process what just happened, Serena's face leaning closely to Ash's face as the camera pans down to their feet, Serena blushing with a smile. They could've just easily shown Serena kissing Ash with the camera showing it but that would've taken away much of the magic from the original scene. Also, whether you love or hate amour shipping, you have to admit Ash's friends reactions are just downright hilarious.

With that being said, how important is subtle storytelling to you for the anime? Do you think the anime does enough or do you think the anime still needs work, improvement, that it has yet to give a larger role in subtle storytelling? Would it improve quality if you think so? Would it make you watch the anime more often? Sun and Moon is mixed among fans but it has a fair amount of subtle storytelling that delivers some of it's very best and memorable episodes throughout the entire Pokemon series.

 

[satopi]

It definitely needs improvement but it's been heading in the right direction. The thing is, they have to make things a bit more obvious even when they use subtlety like in Stoutland's death for it's audience even when it gets caught on easily.

This has been mentioned before but I liked how Nanu's not so obvious lazy behavior is used where he's shown leading Ash and the TRio up to battle each other because he didn't want to be bothered by them, lying about who he is, hanging up on the phone, and going off to sleep somewhere as Officer Jenny's the few people who mention he doesn't keep watch at his post. It's not until he's found out that he has no choice but to give in and even when he is battling, he berates Ash, wanting him to just give up and go home merely for his own cause as he doesn't get much people asking for him.

That's just how I interpret it.

 

[VoltTacklingPika]

They never actually show it, it's implied that it happened by Ash's friends red-faced shocked behavior, Ash just standing their trying to process what just happened, Serena's face leaning closely to Ash's face as the camera pans down to their feet, Serena blushing with a smile. They could've just easily shown Serena kissing Ash with the camera showing it but that would've taken away much of the magic from the original scene. Also, whether you love or hate amour shipping, you have to admit Ash's friends reactions are just downright hilarious.

None of that is subtle, though. The reactions of Clement, Bonnie and Pikachu, and Serena's bashful behaviour afterwards, make it obvious what's just happened. It's the most obvious they could have made it without actually showing it happen.

With that being said, how important is subtle storytelling to you for the anime? Do you think the anime does enough or do you think the anime still needs work, improvement, that it has yet to give a larger role in subtle storytelling? Would it improve quality if you think so? Would it make you watch the anime more often? Sun and Moon is mixed among fans but it has a fair amount of subtle storytelling that delivers some of it's very best and memorable episodes throughout the entire Pokemon series.

The more you can communicate about a character's state of mind without words, the better. It's rooted in real life logic. Most of our communication is done via body language and facial expressions, as they're much stronger indicators of what someone is feeling or thinking at any given time. In fiction, we can communicate a character's emotional state through his body language, facial expression, or through objects placed in a scene, while also expressing something different through dialogue. This helps us create tension.

However, it doesn't have to be subtle. Some expressions have obvious, common meanings. Even though a word isn't spoken, there are times where there can only be one interpretation of a scene. Like that Serena scene, for example. There is meaning there communicated without dialogue, but there's only one way you can interpret that scene. It's a scene that tries to be bashful rather than subtle, but it still works.

Pokemon is an interesting case because it was only in the last few years that they could utilise this form of storytelling more often. Before XY, the animation was limited in what it could express. Emotions were conveyed through dialogue and recycled, generic shots (angry face, sad face, happy face, etc.), while more subtle forms of body language (such as eye movement) were rarer. As the animation improved, their options expanded.

Being a family show, Pokemon always has to strike a balance. It needs to be clear enough for a casual or young viewer to understand, but offer just enough depth for older viewers to enjoy it, too. The way it does this is by avoiding complexity, but tackling issues that inherently have depth to them. The Stoutland episode is a good example, as the imagery, tone, and events make it obvious what has happened, but at no point does anyone in the episode does anyone need to explain what death means and how we should deal with it.

Generally speaking, the show is undoubtedly better off with it than without it.

 

[satopi]

The episodes without dialogue are some of the best.

I'm not sure if this counts as important subtlety but SM has been upping it's game with subtle details if you meant by what VTP meant where the character communicate what's on their mind without words. For example, a few subtle details I saw in episode 74 were on top of the library house, the wind chime (whatever you call it) has a star (Solgaleo), moon (Lunala), and sun (Lord Light), Rowlet passed out on his back by overeating and is still passed out but on top of its own head while Ash is battling Nanu. Torracat napped for most of the day but watched Ash and Lycanroc battle Nanu and Krokodile, Ash's face steadily got more emotional during the battle: Starting from the first time he told Lycanroc to calm down, noticing it's anger, he was confident and tried to get Lycanroc to focus on Krokodile, slowly losing it as he watched Lycanroc struggle in battle. Lycanroc's Red Eye ability gradually made him more uncomfortable, maybe even slightly embarrassed when Nanu noted that Lycanroc wasn't listening to him. Ash's face tightened, eyes watering, the more he directly looked at Lycanroc.

And this is only one example. If you rewatch an episode and pay close attention to a scene being animated, you'll notice something as silly as Jessie's white hat falling off her head, never to return back in the last episode.

 

[Shadao]

The only issue with subtly is that Bulbapedia will take surface details to the extreme in the description per policy. This leads to examples like Stoutland "disappearing" rather than being dead. Or Serena leaning towards Ash, but not mentioning that the implication was that she gave Ash a kiss (and not even mentioning the fact the creators outright state that the scene is meant to imply a kiss in trivia section).

And it's a bit frustrating when reading the summaries. But at the same time, hilarious.

That's all I have to say because otherwise, what's wrong with subtle storytelling?

 

[LilligantLewis]

The only issue with subtly is that Bulbapedia will take surface details to the extreme in the description per policy. This leads to examples like Stoutland "disappearing" rather than being dead. Or Serena leaning towards Ash, but not mentioning that the implication was that she gave Ash a kiss (and not even mentioning the fact the creators outright state that the scene is meant to imply a kiss in trivia section).

And it's a bit frustrating when reading the summaries. But at the same time, hilarious.

That's all I have to say because otherwise, what's wrong with subtle storytelling?

"Stoutland has passed away" is a line from the Bulbapedia article on SM021.

 

[Shadao]

"Stoutland has passed away" is a line from the Bulbapedia article on SM021.

Ssssh! Don't tell that to Bulbapedia or they will make more ambiguous on the obvious implication. Their official stance on Stoutland is that he "disappeared" and his location is "unknown". Unless it's outright confirm, such as Lucario, don't expect Stoutland to be on the deceased category since the anime never outright states it.

But going back to subtle storytelling, it's really more of pictures speaking for themselves. And they are the ones that leave the most impact. Sure there's an occasional Brock's "Frying Pan = Drying Pan" quote that becomes a meme trend for Pokémon fans. But who can forget that striking image of Ash defending Pikachu from the flock of Spearow? Or Chamander trying to keep its flame lit during the rain? Or Ash being surrounded by his Pokémon when he's stuck in the snow? Or Giovanni smiling as he sees the destruction caused by Mewtwo? Or Chimchar under Blaze rage while Ash tries to calm it down? Or Ash mastering the Ash-Greninja technique? Or Serena kissing Ash scene? Or Litten mourning Stoutland?

Really, the anime does these subtle techniques quite often. However, you may notice they tend to be episodes that are imaginative or have an important story to tell. When the anime is fully engaged in the story its telling, subtle storytelling is second nature to the animators. But if the anime is going through the motions, any subtle storytelling is likely going to forgotten if not completely abandoned for other methods of storytelling.