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How many rosters have gyms leaders got?

d4rk_tailed

Doritoes,Leaf Storm!
Hi all, first thread here:

So i was playing Fire Red back again, and got to thinking about how Ash's novice Pikachu took down Brock's Geodude, and then Onix, albeit with a struggle. Or when he managed to defeat Lt. Surge's Raichu. Then look at Johto, one region on, and Ash fought Pidgeot and Dodrio as Falkner's best Pokemon. If Ash HAD left his Kanto boys at Oaks before setting off for Johto, and had been using Chikorita and Heracross to earn his Zephyr Badge, I dont reckon Pidgeot and Dodrio would have been Falkner's Pokemon.

My point is that, although the first 3 sagas were too early to make any judgements on patterns in the series, would a beginning trainer in Johto (ie. with a Cyndaquil and maybe a Pidgey or Caterpie) have been put up against Pidgeot and Dodrio? Even Charizard and Pika had a hard time with those two, so would beginners be forced to fight immense Pokemon like those to win their very first badge?

Or if you look at Roark's Pokemon in Sinnoh, where Ash used a new set of Pokemon, and just about scored level, supposing there had been a trainer who had travelled 10 regions, along the way powering up his Pokemon, and not dropping them off with his Professor after every league, surely they would find whupping Brock or Roark a cinch that could be completed within 2 minutes?

So (sorry about long windedness) do Gym Leaders actually change their rosters depending upon who challenges them? Do trainers register how many regions they have travelled and what Pokemon they carry with them with the leader before the leader picks his/ her Pokemon? Otherwise, youd have Brocks Geodude and Onix taking on Torterras, Milotics, Dragonites, Tyrannitars....and if Ashs beginner Pikachu cut them down, what would better trainers do?
 

Godsend Josh

Team Godsends leader
well since the anime is different from the game i would think not. Since the game concentrates on stats, levels, and etc. it would be hard for the player with lv 5-12 pkmn to face Pokemon lv 36 or 20. in the anime i don't think the gym leaders change thier Pokemon because they can be fighting a trainer who has seven badges and getting thier eighth. which means Falkner could be battling a trainer more stronger and prepared than ash was
 

thunderblade12

Well-Known Member
Gym Leaders are supposed to test trainers so that seems likely.

Other examples:
- If Casey challenged Falkner maybe he used his in-game team (Pidgey and Pidgeoto) against her. There's no way her little Chikorita, who was one-shotted by Ash's Charizard, can stand up to something Charizard itself had trouble beating.

- If Ash was still traveling with his Kanto team all the way 'till now, in Sinnoh, the gym leaders would probably be pulling out major powerhouses. Like their teams from The Battleground or something. Ash Vs Roark ending in a showdown between Charizard and Aerodactyl? Yeah, I can see that.
 

d4rk_tailed

Doritoes,Leaf Storm!
Agreed, otherwise giant strong Pokemon would be using Geodudes as kickboxes, and vice versa with Pidgeots against Weedles ;)-
 

An00bis

Wicked Witch
Ah. The post I made yesterday didn't go through. Figured.

I said that there's evidence that Gym Leaders have something like an on-site Reserve. It looked exactly like the indoor storage room at Professor Oak's so it's plausible to think they keep their extra Pokemon in there are various levels. Team Rocket tried at least twice in Sinnoh alone to steal Pokemon during the match though not from the arena. We could assume that they're trying to find the storage room.

As for how they know which Pokemon to use against their opponents the Pokemon League has something like a Trainer's Database where they can look up their opponents and battling style. It appears to be a public database. Even if it wasn't you'd think that Gym Leaders would have the authorization to use it all year round.
 

d4rk_tailed

Doritoes,Leaf Storm!
O, yeah, maybe I didnt check properly, my bad.

Yeah, now I think about it, Candice had a room of Pokemon didnt she? Mind though, using a database doesnt tell you what Pokemon a trainer will use. For example, you could have Nidoking, Aggron and Rhydon on your league profile going into Watsons gym, so he picks real tough opponenets for you, but then you decide like Ash, to use new Hoenn Pokes, like Sableye, or Treecko etc
 

Shades of Gray

Lieutenant Sarcasm
Well, I think so. It would just make sense that they use Pokemon strong enough to challenge, but too weak to annihilate.

Yeah, a lot of gym leaders have been seen with more Pokemon then they have on the rosters they challenged Ash with, haven't they?
 

Swampert_trainer

Laughs at thunder
Gym leaders usually have other Pokemon on hand at the gym, so I assume they'd have stronger Pokemon to use against trainers of higher caliburs.
 

Darkstorm16

Well-Known Member
I am pretty sure they do because ok Paul for example is a highly experienced trainer, and say he visits Roxanne and say he registers his Torterra and other big tough pokemon then Roxanne would probably use a Tyranitar, Golem and all the Emerald's final rematch team. But say you start your journey with a Treecko, a Wingull and a Ralts and the first gym you say is a sootopolis gym Juan or Wallace probably would challenge them to a 3 vs 3 battle using a goldeen, barboach, and an Azurill. I think the gym leaders have 4 ranks and they have to match strength as a form of a test. It would be unfair otherwise and also the challenger probably has to register their pokemon but they don't show us.
 

~-Overheat-~

Black/White!
Two things:

Ash's pokemon's levels reset
And there is no gym order. Roark was as strong as Byron in the anime. Meaning he trained. Gym leaders train and get stronger. Beginners i think have to go to other gyms where the gym leaders are weaker aswell.
 

Darkstorm16

Well-Known Member
Only problem with that issue is your gonna get lazy people who will challenge 8 easy gym leaders say all of them with Paras or Dunsparce just to get the 8 badges.
 

d4rk_tailed

Doritoes,Leaf Storm!
I think the gym leaders have 4 ranks and they have to match strength as a form of a test.

More than 4 ranks if there are more than 4 gens?

It really is a shame that Brock couldnt just say to Ash when they returned to Pewter one time "psst Ash, check out my ace Golem, Rampardos, Relicanth. etc" Surely he has a great team like the HGSS one lined up to use right?

Yeah, but ~-overheat-~, thats why I was saying, this topic only matters if Ash had brought Sceptile and Squirtle to Roark's gym with him instead of Aipom and Turtwig. The only one who resets is Pikachu. Now I think about having no gym order, thats the dirtiest plot hole I can currently think of :D
 

High Commander Solomon

This is MADNESS!
Gym leaders have no reliable way of figuring out how strong a trainer is before facing them. In all likelihood there's some form of this, but if we assume they need to win as often as possible (excluding possible factors such as being expected to teach or the kind of completely unpunished dismotivation currently affecting Volkner), they probably have to worry about rotating in their "lesser" Pokemon for other reasons.

1. Gaining them experience, obviously
2. Keeping their confidence levels high in case they're needed at a later time
3. Avoiding burnout on the part of an unbalanced-strong Pokemon

Leaders might use any number of methods for taking an educated guess at how strong their opponents might be, but someone like Whitney using nothing but Miltank simply can't work unless the rate of trainer challenges is quite low. Which isn't impossible - Ash doesn't often run into a complete stranger challenging the same gym - but then the Chronicles episodes featuring Misty suggest a flood of challengers.

Nevertheless, it's implied at times that gym leaders really care about the losses they do take - especially Maylene at Paul's hands - suggesting they're intending to win. Letting up entirely on a young opponent, then, seems counterproductive. At worst, it can end in a spectacularly unqualified entrant into the league tournaments at the end of eight rounds of pity (start the Kanto anime jokes!), but it can also lead to trainers being held out because the gym leader cranked it up out of personal dislike (which also sounds like...the Kanto anime).

Well, all that overthinking and I got nothing.
 

Lorde

Let's go to the beach, each.
I'm pretty sure gym leaders change their rosters depending on which challeger they have to fight. I suppose in the case where the gym leader meets the challenger beforehand, the gym leader will decide to use specific Pokemon to test the challengers ability.

We already know most gyms have several Pokemon in reserve so it's a possibility.
 

iraqmaster

Well-Known Member
I think Gym Leaders have a variety of Pokemon corresponding to their types, and at the very least ask the challenging trainers before the battle begins how many badges have they obtained or whatnot.
 
I also agree that gym leaders have different Pokemon teams, depending on your strength or experience. The Gym Leaders have a legal obligation to give them a fighting chance, I believe.
 

High Commander Solomon

This is MADNESS!
They're not required to keep their gyms from being anything other than complete rubble (Blaine), free badges go unpunished (Volkner), turning challengers into inanimate dolls is allowed...but they're required by law to give a fair chance to some random Charmander trainer? Doesn't compute. The OP mentions Lt. Surge, but his episode shows an endless string of trainers who had their Pokemon completely blown away at the beginning. I don't suspect he went easy on those guys, do you?
 
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Adamo

Well-Known Member
We know this is slightly true as Gardenia is now using Cacnea , and is likely doing so instead of another pokemon at times. Also as whitney said all that matters is if someone can defeat a gym leaders strongest pokemon so likely they change their roster slightly but always use their best pokemon., In the Anime the gyms are implied to to have less " order of strength". Candice seemed really weak while Roark seemed really strong.

not that it matters though...We only see ashes battles full out.
 

iraqmaster

Well-Known Member
They're not required to keep their gyms from being anything other than complete rubble (Blaine), free badges go unpunished (Volkner), turning challengers into inanimate dolls is allowed...but they're required by law to give a fair chance to some random Charmander trainer? Doesn't compute. The OP mentions Lt. Surge, but his episode shows an endless string of trainers who had their Pokemon completely blown away at the beginning. I don't suspect he went easy on those guys, do you?

I do think that gym leaders at the very least ask the visiting trainers how long they've been battling and how many badges they have, and that way they can pick out the pokemon that corresponds to that. We just don't see in the anime.
 

iraqmaster

Well-Known Member
They're not required to keep their gyms from being anything other than complete rubble (Blaine), free badges go unpunished (Volkner), turning challengers into inanimate dolls is allowed...but they're required by law to give a fair chance to some random Charmander trainer? Doesn't compute. The OP mentions Lt. Surge, but his episode shows an endless string of trainers who had their Pokemon completely blown away at the beginning. I don't suspect he went easy on those guys, do you?

I do think that gym leaders at the very least ask the visiting trainers how long they've been battling and how many badges they have, and that way they can pick out the pokemon that corresponds to that. We just don't see in the anime.
 
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