How much music should the dub keep?

[Tabasco Boshi]

The John Williams thing is so stupid. The only person who said that his music is evocative of John Williams's scores is Ed Goldfarb, the current dub composer. And this is not a joke, it's really sad.

 

[Ryu Taylor]

The John Williams thing is so stupid.

Indeed, so people should quit lauding Shinji Miyazaki as being anywhere near as awesome as him. In fact, no Pokemon composer is as good as Williams.

 

[Tabasco Boshi]

Indeed, so people should quit lauding Shinji Miyazaki as being anywhere near as awesome as him. In fact, no Pokemon composer is as good as Williams.

I'd like to see someone comparing him to John Williams, I haven't had the pleasure.

Btw, I like the part where you skip Ed Goldfarb's comment. Your hero can't be wrong.

 

[Ryu Taylor]

I'd like to see someone comparing him to John Williams, I haven't had the pleasure.

Btw, I like the part where you skip Ed Goldfarb's comment. Your hero can't be wrong.

If they did, they'd be telling a bigger lie to everyone including themselves than any time you try to claim you're okay with people even remotely liking Mr. Goldfarb's compositions.

And no, he's not wrong. I'm not surprised you forgot that John Williams doesn't only compose big bombastic tracks. He's made softer tracks, too. That might be what Mr. Goldfarb meant by his comment.

The point is, Shinji Miyazaki is absolutely not what he's made out to be. All he is is a good composer. Not a great composer, not a John Williams 2.0, not a (insert classical composer from eras past here) 2.0. Just a good composer, and nothing else.

 

[Tabasco Boshi]

If they did, they'd be telling a bigger lie to everyone including themselves than any time you try to claim you're okay with people even remotely liking Mr. Goldfarb's compositions.

And no, he's not wrong. I'm not surprised you forgot that John Williams doesn't only compose big bombastic tracks. He's made softer tracks, too. That might be what Mr. Goldfarb meant by his comment.

The point is, Shinji Miyazaki is absolutely not what he's made out to be. All he is is a good composer. Not a great composer, not a John Williams 2.0, not a (insert classical composer from eras past here) 2.0. Just a good composer, and nothing else.

I don't think his Batman theme for Sun & Moon is evocative of anything lol

His laundry theme is kinda catchy, I'll give you that.

Again, Ed Goldfarb isn't a bad composer. His music just doesn't fit for Pokémon imo. Call me crazy, but I'd like to hear Pokémon music in the Pokémon show!

 

[Vernikova]

All of it, of course.

After DP, I mostly stopped watching Pokemon. I remember one day tuning into a random XY movie and recognizing dub music in the background, which was so weird. Like, if you watched for the 15 to 16 years that I did from OS to DP, you just learn when a dub piece comes on and when a Japanese piece comes on. They are too different. I think it was the Mewtwo or Volcanion movie. Anyway, I watched more or it and recognized it: "yeah, this is dub music. Why?"

When was the last time the dub replaced the original soundtrack? It was the Entei movie or Celebi movie, I think. I go on to learn later that the movies have started using dub music some time in XY. Once un-cropped movies came about during the Manaphy movie, I thought "okay, at least the movies are safe now sans the vocal tracks." But when I heard that XY movie, it was like okay then. I don't watch Pokemon anymore anyway.

There were some crazy things in the dub. I remember that Sinnih contest episode where they just removed all music from the first half and replaced it with nothing. So no music at all for the first half of the episode. And I remember liking some dub pieces like one from the Swampert episode in DP.

I won't get into 4Kids vs TPCI. It's so old. It gives me SOVA flashbacks. 2006-2008 was an awful time for dub talk.or 2006-2010 if you ran into weedle on PC lol

Seeing DuArt's Pokemon and DuArt's Winx Club, it's so weird to see the difference. One retains all of the music and dubs the vocal tracks. One also has much better voice acting. No weird script changes either. People speak normally.

Winx is also a marketing for its dolls and whatever. So it's interesting to see how TPCI handles its marketing show and how Rainbow handles its marketing show.

Unless you like the dub music,, if you're a regular watcher, there's no reason to watch the dub anymore. When I tune in. I'll watch the dub. It's no biggie for me since I've no idea what goes on in the show anymore. But yeah.

At the end of the day, though, I think they know what they're doing to make the most money. The kods probably don't care, so why should anyone? Their are subs available if you kow where to look anyway.

Edit: as you can see, even grad students in English get sloppy when typing on their phones lol

 

[teddybeardan]

It seems like dwatcher miscounted the amount of BGM kept in some episodes (for example XY057 actually kept 7 pieces, but it's only 4 pieces on his list) but it's still pretty accurate though. TPCi really dropped the ball with music in season 19.

I'll fix that one, thanks for the correction, as it's me lol: I've since gone back and revised several others as well since that time period and plan on doing so more, but the overall downward trend is as we all know still a fact, regardless. In fact, even AG's dub of the Anime kept more Japanese music than late BW's dub onwards to SM now: things have gotten absolutely pitiful on the music replacing situation.

And like you said, I didn't actually have any real problems with the dub music for the first 16 seasons since it for the most part at least seemed to fit the mood of situations it was placed in, but Ed's style of composition doesn't work for this Series imo. Regardless, the dub's voice acting, writing, and intros are all supremely under par for me to this day, and that coupled with the music replacing legitimately becoming worse than ever before, gives me little incentive to keep watching the dub past S20 if things continue on this path. I'm actually very fearful on Movie 20, tbh: at least 4Kids had the decency to keep almost all or all the OST in the Movies from Celebi to Lucario, yet even that is in danger now.

 

[Ryu Taylor]

I'll fix that one, thanks for the correction, as it's me lol: I've since gone back and revised several others as well since that time period and plan on doing so more, but the overall downward trend is as we all know still a fact, regardless.

"Downward trend"

Yeah, I thought your TPCi dub and TPCi dub fan hating attitude looked familiar. You never could accept the fact that TPCi had fans, and I see you still can't despite all your claims you can.

I still primarily blame Dogasu and many Bulbagarden tools like him for making the JP version seem like it really would be awesome, but you're most definitely not helping its case.

 

[teddybeardan]

"Downward trend"

Yeah, I thought your TPCi dub and TPCi dub fan hating attitude looked familiar. You never could accept the fact that TPCi had fans, and I see you still can't despite all your claims you can.

I still primarily blame Dogasu and many Bulbagarden tools like him for making the JP version seem like it really would be awesome, but you're most definitely not helping.

I can accept the fact TPCi's dub has fans and this is again solely my opinion, so don't start drama here please, but the downward trend is on how much Japanese music is kept in the dub: that's not an opinion. The quality of the dub music itself is subjective, however, that's your prerogative: if you like it, good for you, but not everyone does at the same time. I find it interesting you would chastise me for merely speaking my mind, but whatever floats your boat.

And the JP Version lives up to its reputation for me: sorry if it doesn't for you, but don't act like I'm shoving it down as fact it's better. I, in no way, have always agreed with Dogasu's judgment at several points on both dubs, for the record.

 

[Alloutℯ]

I still primarily blame Dogasu and many Bulbagarden tools like him for making the JP version seem like it really would be awesome, but you're most definitely not helping its case.

What. Many fans prefer the Japanese version regardless of what those hardcore weeaboo fans rant about. The fact that the Japanese version has arguably better dialogue, music, and no edits unlike the dubbed version is why it's seen in a positive light by comparison, not because of some hidden conspiracy against TPCi itself.

 

[Tabasco Boshi]

What. Many fans prefer the Japanese version regardless of what those hardcore weeaboo fans rant about. The fact that the Japanese version has arguably better dialogue, music, and no edits unlike the dubbed version is why it's seen in a positive light by comparison, not because of some hidden conspiracy against TPCi itself.

You're trying to dialogue with someone who thinks that using a theme in 3/35 episodes is overuse.

 

[teddybeardan]

When was the last time the dub replaced the original soundtrack? It was the Entei movie or Celebi movie, I think. I go on to learn later that the movies have started using dub music some time in XY. Once un-cropped movies came about during the Manaphy movie, I thought "okay, at least the movies are safe now sans the vocal tracks." But when I heard that XY movie, it was like okay then. I don't watch Pokemon anymore anyway.

Entei was the last Movie under 4Kids to change the OST and Diancie was the first Movie under TPCi to change the OST, to clarify: Celebi Movie kept its OST.

 

[doofinc]

"Downward trend"

Yeah, I thought your TPCi dub and TPCi dub fan hating attitude looked familiar. You never could accept the fact that TPCi had fans, and I see you still can't despite all your claims you can.

I still primarily blame Dogasu and many Bulbagarden tools like him for making the JP version seem like it really would be awesome, but you're most definitely not helping its case.

I too enjoy throwing out personal insults by calling people tools. Also the "Downward trend" is in regards to how much music is being used from the original to the English dub. If you plot a graph with the amount of times they used the original music, you notice it goes downwards. His opinion on the music is irrelevant to that statement because the downward trend comment is fact, not opinion. And I'm not sure what case is he supposed to be hurting. His comments were fairly peaceful compared to other people who don't like the dub but you just jumped on him for some reason. Stop acting as if every comment against the dub is a personal attack against you.

 

[Ryu Taylor]

I too enjoy throwing out personal insults by calling people tools.

You really don't want to know what I truly think of Bulbagarden's general userbase.

Stop acting as if every comment against the dub is a personal attack against you.

I've gotten to know dub hatred to have a particularly psychotic passion to it. I saw a Discord chat force a dub fan away from it, just to give an example. Honestly, stuff like that and more gives me no choice but to judge members of the sub fandom as guilty until proven innocent. And believe me, I wish it hadn't come to that.

 

[doofinc]

You really don't want to know what I truly think of Bulbagarden's general userbase.



I've gotten to know dub hatred to have a particularly psychotic passion to it. I saw a Discord chat force a dub fan away from it, just to give an example. Honestly, stuff like that and more gives me no choice but to judge members of the sub fandom as guilty until proven innocent. And believe me, I wish it hadn't come to that.

So basically "I hate how a select amount of dub haters irrationally attacked me so I'm gonna assume all sub lovers are just as bad and I will be as bad as the people who attacked me to others who are innocent." Don't you see the hypocrisy in your actions? You are acting very much as if a few bad eggs represents the whole crowd, a notion I thought people would have already learned about in this age. Like who just generalizes a fanbase as psychotic. If you're trying to open a dialogue between sub and dub fans, you are doing a terrible job at it. If you aren't trying, then why are you posting? If you're just trying to show how us sub haters are psychotic by you being psychotic yourself, then you should probably change strategies.

 

[Dephender]

I think we're done here.