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How powerful was Ash during the battle frontier saga?

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That was only on sinnoh with a badly written scenes than again region power scaling is a whole other issue here's how I rate Ash.

Kanto: A really lucky rookie: I freaking swear in this region ash just got a bunch of mons with perfect ivs. Although bulbasaur is pretty respectable we need a bulbasaur appreciation thread already.

Orange islands: truthfully around gym leader level:Technically ash here is way stronger but in terms of strategy he kinda falls flat not to mention he was using mostly old mons.

Johto: Gym leader level: the thing about johto is that ash was a way better trainer but a fatal weakness was his team was just overall weaker he's strongest mons outside of the classics were heracross(love this baby ), bayleaf(amazing ) and cyndaquil. He's better but no by much

Hoenn: League level: people really do he crap talking hoenn. Ash went in with a new team and almost took the win here. Not to mention his pokemon here all just fit right in.

Battle frontier(lower e4/battle frontier level)
BF Ash is tricky he's using old mons but his skill remains mostly consistent.

Sinnoh:(e4/league champion): off the bat aah in Sinnoh is just the most impressive compared to all other versions of him. He legitimately had to bring back countershield in journeys because that's how impressive he is. If he had alola mons or kalos mons or journeys mons this man would be unstoppable.

Unova(8th gym leader level) Ash in unova is weird because his skills were more basic but no where near as bad as kanto.

Kalos(Champion/E4): Ash in Kalos came saw and conquered. The main issue however is that his kalos mons individually are kinda weaker besides greninja and Pikachu than his bf and sinnoh mons.

Alola(Champion/E4): Ash in alola is strange however Pikachu alone remains consistent in this region just prowling through everything that isn't a ground type. Beating two mythicals one of then highly trained in sivally and just dominating his other team mates ain't slouched either. But due to alola's weird scaling besides kukui serving as the Champion in game universes its actually kinda hard to translate jk. Kukui was the strongest person in alola getting help from a mythical pokemon ash is Champion level.
If Ash was E4 level in Kalos how come he couldn’t beat an E4 level opponent in Alain?
Then again if they battle 6/10 Ash wins
 

Krackochu

Well-Known Member
If Ash was E4 level in Kalos how come he couldn’t beat an E4 level opponent in Alain?
Then again if they battle 6/10 Ash wins
My dear cricket you just played yourself you see ash and Alain were both e4/Champion level with their aces MCX AG and Peakachu respectively. This list went over how all versions of ash with all their team mates and trainer skill level would be.
 

PCN24454

Well-Known Member
That was only on sinnoh with a badly written scenes than again region power scaling is a whole other issue here's how I rate Ash.

Kanto: A really lucky rookie: I freaking swear in this region ash just got a bunch of mons with perfect ivs. Although bulbasaur is pretty respectable we need a bulbasaur appreciation thread already.

Orange islands: truthfully around gym leader level:Technically ash here is way stronger but in terms of strategy he kinda falls flat not to mention he was using mostly old mons.

Johto: Gym leader level: the thing about johto is that ash was a way better trainer but a fatal weakness was his team was just overall weaker he's strongest mons outside of the classics were heracross(love this baby ), bayleaf(amazing ) and cyndaquil. He's better but no by much

Hoenn: League level: people really do he crap talking hoenn. Ash went in with a new team and almost took the win here. Not to mention his pokemon here all just fit right in.

Battle frontier(lower e4/battle frontier level)
BF Ash is tricky he's using old mons but his skill remains mostly consistent.

Sinnoh:(e4/league champion): off the bat aah in Sinnoh is just the most impressive compared to all other versions of him. He legitimately had to bring back countershield in journeys because that's how impressive he is. If he had alola mons or kalos mons or journeys mons this man would be unstoppable.

Unova(8th gym leader level) Ash in unova is weird because his skills were more basic but no where near as bad as kanto.

Kalos(Champion/E4): Ash in Kalos came saw and conquered. The main issue however is that his kalos mons individually are kinda weaker besides greninja and Pikachu than his bf and sinnoh mons.

Alola(Champion/E4): Ash in alola is strange however Pikachu alone remains consistent in this region just prowling through everything that isn't a ground type. Beating two mythicals one of then highly trained in sivally and just dominating his other team mates ain't slouched either. But due to alola's weird scaling besides kukui serving as the Champion in game universes its actually kinda hard to translate jk. Kukui was the strongest person in alola getting help from a mythical pokemon ash is Champion level.
You mean “consistently written scenes”.

Gen 1 through 4, Elite Four members were essentially unstatted NPCs that you would find in a D&D game.

By contrast, Elite Four in Gen V onwards are just normal trainers.
 

Broseph08

Well-Known Member
I was just talking about this but I still think Ash was nerfed in DP or at the very least the E4 got a big unnecessary boost. It's not talked about as much as Unova because of how egrigious that was but BF Ash seemed like he was right in the e4's class as shown by his battle against Agatha and the Frontier Brains. I think having Flint be so much stronger was a dumb decision that just threw power scaling in the series to hell.
 

PCN24454

Well-Known Member
I was just talking about this but I still think Ash was nerfed in DP or at the very least the E4 got a big unnecessary boost. It's not talked about as much as Unova because of how egrigious that was but BF Ash seemed like he was right in the e4's class as shown by his battle against Agatha and the Frontier Brains. I think having Flint be so much stronger was a dumb decision that just threw power scaling in the series to hell.
Nah, the E4 just got nerfed after DP. They were always nigh-invincible.
 

Broseph08

Well-Known Member
Nah, the E4 just got nerfed after DP. They were always nigh-invincible.
Ash was putting a fight against them in BF. It was DP that portrayed them as invincible to begin with. Lorelei was obviously a monster in OS but Ash was also nowhere near the E4 at the time. However, based on BF, Ash was already starting to be in that class based on how he fought against Agatha and the Frontier Brains. The next progression for him should have been for him to actually beat an E4 member and put up a good fight against a champion.
 

PokemonBattleFanatic-

Well-Known Member
I saw no indication of Ash reaching E4 during late AG or DP,the strongest pokemon he trained up at the time were Sceptile,Infernape and Pikachu and they weren't anywhere near E4.Maybe he could've reached that level if he didn't get nerfed in BW but it's still a stretch.
 

Ash-Pikachu

Well-Known Member
I would agree that Ash's performance against Agatha should suggest that Ash was closing in on the Elite Four but I think information shown later would suggest that this is not the case. Power scaling in general has been a little iffy in Pokemon. Ash's Torterra gave Bertha a decent fight but Ash's Torterra is clearly not on that level. Alain and XY Ash gave Steven and Diantha respectively very good fights but were ultimately proven not to be Champion level. I think it's clear that BF Ash wasn't on the level of the Elite Four on the basis that the majority of Ash's reserves used in the Battle Frontier were still competitive with some of the stronger Sinnoh League contestants and they certainly weren't even close to the Elite Four.

Tobias is the closest thing to an Elite Four member at the time and there's really no statement that confirms his status as an Elite Four level competitor, though he's likely pretty close. Despite that, Ash using a team that has grown stronger since the Battle Frontier only managed to defeat 2 of Tobias' pokemon with a full team.

I don't think BF/DP Ash was quite on that level yet.
 

Broseph08

Well-Known Member
I saw no indication of Ash reaching E4 during late AG or DP,the strongest pokemon he trained up at the time were Sceptile,Infernape and Pikachu and they weren't anywhere near E4.Maybe he could've reached that level if he didn't get nerfed in BW but it's still a stretch.
Late AG made it seem like he was close to competing with E4 level trainers. It was DP that introduced a power creep and made the E4 much further away from him. At least that's how I saw it considering the work Pikachu was putting against Agatha's ace, Gengar. Flint destroying Ash the way he did is what recalibrated the scales but before that, lots of people thought Ash was starting to be in that class
 

PokemonBattleFanatic-

Well-Known Member
Late AG made it seem like he was close to competing with E4 level trainers. It was DP that introduced a power creep and made the E4 much further away from him. At least that's how I saw it considering the work Pikachu was putting against Agatha's ace, Gengar. Flint destroying Ash the way he did is what recalibrated the scales but before that, lots of people thought Ash was starting to be in that class
And what about against Drake?Did you think Ash was close to that level in that match too?That Agatha match happened right after the Hoenn League,she was just filling in as a temporary gym leader.If we go solely off that one battle then the E4 and Frontier Brains should all be close to each other in power.Ash barley won against Noland,he had to face Anabel twice and then Brandon 3 times.
 
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