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How should gen 8 ash be handled?

Discussion in 'Pokémon Animé Discussion' started by mehmeh1, Nov 5, 2018.

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  1. Leonhart

    Leonhart Well-Known Member

    I miss that as well since he acted child-like without seeming too irritating, but it's not something that I think will ever return. He's often quirky in SM at least, and I suppose that that's as close as we can get to having snarky Satoshi back. I don't expect an improvement in the next saga, however.
     
  2. Genaller

    Genaller May 16th 2016 - October 12th 2019

    Pretend like Gen 7 never happened and have him pick-up personality and trainer skill wise from right where XY Ash left-off just as XY Ash picked-up in those regards from where DP Ash left-off.
     
    J.Agera, SH65 and Redstar45 like this.
  3. mehmeh1

    mehmeh1 #TEAMSOBBLE

    what about things like how others see him? My main problem with XY ash was how absolutely everyone looked up to ash, I mean, there's no problem with characters looking up to him (Sawyer is a top 2 rival IMO because of his dynamic with ash), but having everyone do it was a bit too much and didn't allow for that much of varied dynamics between ash and the others, which I think is why some say XY ash is bland (as in, he's really not, but there's not much variety as to how others react to him and thus, how he reacts to others)
     
  4. Genaller

    Genaller May 16th 2016 - October 12th 2019

    I’d rather have Ash be ‘bland’ than inconsistent. I would have liked it if DP and XY Ash kept his wit from OS and AG though I can see why it was dropped since AG had Ash learn to be patient (vs Brawly), humble (vs E4 Drake) and more cautious (vs Brandon). Maybe it’s not the best direction, but at least it was a consistent 1. DP Ash actually did have quite the temper especially towards people he thought were being incompetent and/or having views vastly diverging from his own though a development he had by the end of it was that while certain values may not be suitable for him, it needn’t be the case that they aren’t suitable for others as well.

    I wouldn’t disagree with having more variance in dynamics; however, if BW and SM were supposed to be attempted implementations of this, then frankly the execution was atrocious and at times outright contradictory to Ash’s character progression from OS -> AG -> DP -> XY. I’m fine with dynamic variance, but I take great issue with it coming at the cost of inconsistent portrayal. Besides Ash’s interactions with others is a separate matter from who Ash is as a character himself.

    To sum up as a person and trainer Ash should pick-up from where he left-off in XY though I’m open to him having more varied interactions than he did in XY predicated on the assumption that it’s consistent with his character up until that point.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2019
  5. Kintaro

    Kintaro Banned

    Keep in mind SM was billed as "Ash on vacation" from the start, that's literally why Ash and Delia came to Alola in the first place. His personality was changed to fit the comedic nature of this series, but Ash is essentially on vacation. That's why he's silly and his team isn't really being trained or particular good this saga, etc.

    Gen 8 will probably go back to the way things were.
     
    Redstar45 likes this.
  6. Jeal

    Jeal Well-Known Member

    Nah, we all know it was an attempt to draw the attention of the children that clearly did not work.
     
    Redstar45 likes this.
  7. Kintaro

    Kintaro Banned

    Well yes, that too. But there is an in-universe explanation.
     
  8. Leonhart

    Leonhart Well-Known Member

    I've seen a lot of people who want him to return to his former glory, and while I do hope that the next saga is more battle-oriented to an extent, I hope Satoshi keeps some of his SM personality and has more funny moments.
     
  9. Genaller

    Genaller May 16th 2016 - October 12th 2019

    Right, so basically he’s not being treated like an actual character, but merely a husk of flesh whom the writers can inject whatever personality traits they want in him whenever they see fit. Sure I get that, and that is precisely my whole problem with how Ash is handled in BW and SM.
     
    Redstar45 likes this.
  10. U.N. Owen

    U.N. Owen In Brightest Day, In Blackest Night ...

    I'm just hoping he's not a soft reboot (BW), boring and preachy (XY), or easily overshadowed because he's just dull (SM).

    Just give me an Ash that can actually get an emotion other annoyance.
     
  11. Redstar45

    Redstar45 A POCKET MONSTERS & DIGITAL MONSTERS Fan !

    Funny thing about that.....is how i feel about superhero nowaday....main superman (my favourite)
     
  12. SH65

    SH65 Victory Over All!

    XY Ash is preachy?? Ok thats new how is he preachy?
     
    AvatarKorrina likes this.
  13. Doppelgänger

    Doppelgänger Superancient Member

    He was really close to making a born-again Christian out of Lysandre during that Team Flare finale.
     
  14. Genaller

    Genaller May 16th 2016 - October 12th 2019

    Actually DP Ash would be more preachy. As a comparison look at DP Ash’s passionate outbursts against Paul due to disagreeing with his methods of catching and raising pokémon. I loved that stuff, but still it would qualify as preachy. In comparison in XY Ash at 1 time started prioritizing strength over love and that didn’t turn out well for him, but you don’t see him giving Alain a hard time about wanting to be the strongest since he understands that just because certain values don’t work for him, it doesn’t mean they won’t for others.
     
    SH65 and J.Agera like this.
  15. Power Up

    Power Up ...

    You would do well to keep your posts clean of insults. I recall a certain one of our discussions resulting a locked threads and your comments being flagged. Don't burn this one down with your inflammatory comments as well would you please?

    At any rate, his age doesn't matter if it isn't part of the series narrative. His age was never mentioned in XY/XYZ. The reasons as to why he doesn't win leagues is because of promoting the games, not cause he's ten

    You're using your interpretation of the scene as some sort of valid argument with no logical basis.

    Sure whynaut. I want to push back this idea Ash didn't change/develop and of course, the idiotic claim that Ash reverted back at the Kalos League.

    XY Ash as a character is extremely underrated with many baseless and idiotic claims, you can see them in this thread for example, with people wrongly misrepresenting how Ash worked in XY and downplaying notable feats he had as a character.

    Now on to the actual development part.

    Ash can clearly be seen as becoming overconfident and overlying on Ash-Grenina's power.

    Before, there's already strong development with Ash gradually increasing his power and bond with Greninja after a string of victories and overall strong showings with beating Sawyer, Team Flare, pushing Alain to the brink, and pushing Diantha to the brink and " mastering final-form "(but not really).

    However, a notable change can been seen with Ash and the first signs of him overlying on the becoming one thing with Ash-Greninja can be seen in Ash v Sawyer V2,.
    In this episode, Ash is notably shaken with Sawyer's increased improvement with Sceptile landing attacks and keeping Greninja at bay and attempts to become one with Greninja as a means to try and beat Sawyer fails since Ash tries to force it. He of course fails, and ends up being caught up in how he did it last time and why he couldn't do it, leaving Greninja to fend for himself and bang, Sceptile ends up beating him partly because of Ash's indecisiveness and his attempt to simply rely on sychro.

    Ash then attempts to hide his disappointment (and you can clearly see him being downcast) in losing with a smile, Pikachu of course, sees through him. His first question to Clemont is why the synchro didn't work and he makes no attempt to truly understanding why.

    This kind of layered depth with XY Ash is of course forgotten with people forumers making baseless claims like uh XY Ash is bland and uh XY Ash, man what a robotic character. Then they go around praising SM Ash has a paragon of a strong character...

    Anyway, this is the first of even stronger examples of Ash's character flaws in XY/XYZ and how amazingly XY highlights it and how he grows from it in a great arc of development.

    Before I go any further, I'd like to know what you found hamfisted and melodramatic, this time with some logic maybe. That would be nice. There's an over presence on people outright stating inaccurate assumptions on the forum with little to know analysis in trying to break down what exactly points to them to think that way.

    Maybe, you'll be one of the few who'll put up coherent points instead of relegating their arguments to simple one-note statements with the likes of endless XY Ash is so robotic and he had no personality.

    Of course, looking at the last few pages on this thread, my hopes aren't high
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2019
    AvatarKorrina, Doppelgänger and SH65 like this.
  16. PorcelainVulpix

    PorcelainVulpix justice for johto

    Oh, looka here. You’re trying to suck up to the mods and tattle again, what a surprise.
    Your posts are no “cleaner” than mine or anyone else’s. You insult other people and cry when people respond. How about you actually respond to the discussion? I didn’t burn that thread down, btw you ruined that thread just like you seem to want to do for this one instead of just replying to the discussion like the rest of us do because you can’t handle criticism towards your favorite series. Shoving your forced opinions down everyone else’s throats will never work.
     
    AvatarKorrina likes this.
  17. Power Up

    Power Up ...

    Nope, why in the hell would I "tattle" to the mods when you made it blatantly obvious with the insults you used? I haven't reported a single post of yours.

    Nope, calling your claims idiotic and baseless is not insulting. I think your arguments are stupid, I'm not calling you stupid. By all means, attack my opinions. I would prefer you do that then call me delusional.

    I did? You've parroted the exact same statement around 100 times now, kinda getting old. That isn't contribution, it's repetition.

    Oh I can handle criticism, what I can't handle is one-note statements with no logic behind them and no attempt in actually formulating an argument.

    I'm ending my little riposte with you here since I actually want to here some legit arguments from the person I wanted to address. You can carry on
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2019
  18. PorcelainVulpix

    PorcelainVulpix justice for johto

    And apart of promoting games, is by keeping Ash ten. If I recall correctly, most of the player characters are ten (I think there are a few exceptions though.) as long as the games are catering to those in that age group, so will Ash, so therefore he will be stuck at ten. It doesn’t make sense to make him older and more “‘mature” or whatever if the show is forever going to be aimed ten year olds.

    Double post because for whatever reason, the ads keep blocking the save changes button which won’t allow me to edit my previous post.
     
    Moonlight Starlight likes this.
  19. PorcelainVulpix

    PorcelainVulpix justice for johto

    Okay mini mod, by that logic I never attacked you I only called out your delusional claims, which you cried about and got the thread closed for. You constantly hurl insults at users here don’t worship XY like you do and act like it’s okay but God forbid it’s the other way around. You throw stones and hide your hands.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2019
    BTS_fan likes this.
  20. J.Agera

    J.Agera Keep calm and eat a potato chip.

    No one:

    Literally No one:

    Not a single soul:

    AznKei:
    Lol, this is strange, some one who Dosen't care about Ash, is at an Ash Ketchum focused thread?

    Listen, I have no problem if he likes SM Ash and finds XY Ash bland, but if he passes out his opinions as facts(which they aren't), I can't tolerate things like that. Besides, did EVERYONE ignored how he didn't backup his claims either?
    God, this forum is weird.
     
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