• Hi all. We have had reports of member's signatures being edited to include malicious content. You can rest assured this wasn't done by staff and we can find no indication that the forums themselves have been compromised.

    However, remember to keep your passwords secure. If you use similar logins on multiple sites, people and even bots may be able to access your account.

    We always recommend using unique passwords and enable two-factor authentication if possible. Make sure you are secure.
  • Be sure to join the discussion on our discord at: Discord.gg/serebii
  • If you're still waiting for the e-mail, be sure to check your junk/spam e-mail folders

How Should We Interpret the Bible on Sin and Eternal Punishment?

Celestial Moth

Celestial Moth

Guardian of the Tree of Time
You have to understand though that the bible has been re interpreted hundreds of times.
The king James version of the bible has been proven to be the most accurately translated copy of the bible, translated from the dead sea scrolls.
Theirs many different versions of the bible and many parts of the bible that have changed, been re interpreted and or straight up removed because
of a publishers, "neo Christians" or advocates point of view.

Like the book of Enoch which is famous for its controversy, yet in the book of genesis within the bible, Enoch is heavily revered as an icon of knowledge and truth. As he was the only one that the sovereign god untrusted his knowledge to, hes also the only being known in the bible to walk into heaven and walk out ;) ( im not talking about jesus )

THough his "book within the bible was removed and not added.
Some of my same points and insinuations that iv said can also be seen within the book of Ezekiel within the bible.
The bible was composed from multiple stories and multiple descriptions and depictions of events happening within those times, just like the Koran.
So with that said you have to understand that the beings that did compose the bible may have had their own agenda, thus allowing some homophobic
"scriptures" to be added.
 
V

Vaco

Well-Known Member
darkjigglypuff said:
I think we should interpret the bible for what it actually is: An outdated, unchanging book written by a handful of poorly educated men who either though they heard God talk to them, or were trying to mass-manipulate people with one of he most successful ploys in history. It's a barbaric collection of texts written by primitives that has been used to exercise control through fear and obedience.

Now in it's dying years people still cling to this ancient, obviously failing moral system, and frantically scream for its oppression to continue, for fear that if they do not enforce this doctrine, they will be tortured by an all-loving deity who apparently wrote a vague, difficult to interpret book through a variety of fallible human beings.

The very fact that it condemns people as sinners for factors they cannot control is an obvious failing, and one that shows in extreme obviousness that the bible is a crude tool for controlling the masses of the faithful.
Click to expand...

I would like to point out that the Bible isn't dying. Scientific and archaeological evidence is actually pointing to it being correct. I can think of no well-founded reason not to believe it.
 
C

Cosmical El Amarna

Master Bark
Vaco said:
I would like to point out that the Bible isn't dying. Scientific and archaeological evidence is actually pointing to it being correct. I can think of no well-founded reason not to believe it.
Click to expand...

Your statement is deceiving, science and archaeology can validate certain things from the Bible, like geographic locations, ruins, and the finding artifacts from that time period, etc. Also a few other things like a devastating flood that changed the land in the middle east ~10,000 bce and other simple stuff like the use of medicines back then, things like that, how they built stuff, etc.. But other than that, no science does not prove the Bible, its ideology, or the majority of its claims to be valid or accurate.
 
Last edited:
J

JDavidC

Well-Known Member
I'd like to state that Vaco said that there is evidence pointing to it being correct, which is not the same thing as proving it is correct. Therefore, claiming otherwise is attacking a strawman argument.
 
M

mattj

.
I have read that very page in the past, and many, many others just like. So have others uncountable. We still think its good.

What does that have to do with this thread?
 
M

MissDigitalis

love at first sting
What does it have to do with this thread? It has everything to do with it.

The point is that eternal punishment is absurd and a scare tactic for people to convert to Christianity or keep their faith in Christianity.

I don't know how you can say that the bible is good when God says things like "if you don't obey you will be forced to eat the flesh of your children".
 
M

Malanu

Est sularus oth mith
EXODUS 7:2-4 said:
God hardened Pharaoh’s heart and planned his "mighty acts of judgment.
Click to expand...
Matt, This is good? God made the Pharaoh the unyielding jerk he was just so the Egyptian people could be made to suffer? GOD took steps to make sure the plagues happened! And that is somehow... good and just and right? God made sure that the Pharaoh's 1st born son would die, all the livestock would die, Some of this did not have to happen if god had left the Pharaoh with an unhardened heart!?!

Explain to me how that is just, kind and forgiving?
 
C

Cosmical El Amarna

Master Bark
Or when Abraham and his wife Sarah deceived both the pharaoh of the time and the king of Gerar(Abimelech), tricking them into believing that Sarah is his sister and not his wife, to exploit him and her as such is surely not commendable. Both the king and pharaoh found out about their dishonesty and they, not Abraham and Sarah, were punished by God. Genesis 12:18-19, 20:2-5
 
F

FE21

Well-Known Member
Celestial Moth said:
You have to understand though that the bible has been re interpreted hundreds of times.
The king James version of the bible has been proven to be the most accurately translated copy of the bible, translated from the dead sea scrolls.
Theirs many different versions of the bible and many parts of the bible that have changed, been re interpreted and or straight up removed because
of a publishers, "neo Christians" or advocates point of view.

Like the book of Enoch which is famous for its controversy, yet in the book of genesis within the bible, Enoch is heavily revered as an icon of knowledge and truth. As he was the only one that the sovereign god untrusted his knowledge to, hes also the only being known in the bible to walk into heaven and walk out ;) ( im not talking about jesus )

THough his "book within the bible was removed and not added.
Some of my same points and insinuations that iv said can also be seen within the book of Ezekiel within the bible.
The bible was composed from multiple stories and multiple descriptions and depictions of events happening within those times, just like the Koran.
So with that said you have to understand that the beings that did compose the bible may have had their own agenda, thus allowing some homophobic
"scriptures" to be added.
Click to expand...

The dead sea scrolls were discovered from 1946-56, and James died in 1625.
Cosmical Tel El Amarna said:
Or when Abraham and his wife Sarah deceived both the pharaoh of the time and the king of Gerar(Abimelech), tricking them into believing that Sarah is his sister and not his wife, to exploit him and her as such is surely not commendable. Both the king and pharaoh found out about their dishonesty and they, not Abraham and Sarah, were punished by God. Genesis 12:18-19, 20:2-5
Click to expand...

Because a ruler with absolute power cannot under any circumstances kill a husband to marry a window, correct?

Edit: I mean widow (wow that was embarrasing...)
 
J

JDavidC

Well-Known Member
With an all-knowing being though, the thought process would be so radically different that you can't apply human standards and expect it to work, except for things that are going to be set in stone and eternal whatever promised. If you go through the Bible, particularly OT, you would have a lot of the former stuff. God would probably have a x 10^b, where b is some ludicrously large number, reasons for the stuff he does, given he has to consider the consequences until the end of time. Needless to say, this is WAY beyond human comprehension, except for eternal stuff, which is where humans can get some grasp of what is right and wrong. I've seen stuff in the Old Testament that would provoke loads of WTF reactions, having stuff with God doing 'merciless' killing, (seemingly) random killing. Here's an example:

Bring wrong type of fire to priest ceremony thing with God there in person: Get incinerated by God. It's the only 'interesting' part of Leviticus IIRC. It's chapter 10 to be specific.
Things get really bad in the world only 6 chapters into Genesis? Flood the entire place and destroy all life, except for Noah and co.

There are a whole lot of things that would have a lot of Christians deconverting if they read it. It's too insane for any human to do, that's for certain, it goes far beyond anything <Insert any/all evil dictator(s)> did. For many people, it would be a case of, this behaviour contradicts a perfectly good person's behaviour, therefore God cannot exist, therefore Christianity is false, therefore there is no point in interpreting the Bible on Sin and Eternal Punishment. However, there is that whole omniscience thing we cannot understand, which is why I have to give him the benefit of the doubt, at least unless and until I end up meeting him in person.

Here is the big issue for me, I can tell eternal punishment does not fit in the Bible, as that IS contradictory to a perfectly good God, without a doubt. Eternal punishment is just torture, and malicious in nature. There is nothing to be gained by it, and there's no going back if it is, by definition, eternal. That's where things are different from all the other 'atrocities' committed by God in the Bible. That's where things finally break down for me, and leads me to conclude there must have been major mistakes in translating into English. We would have SOME knowledge of good and evil, according to the Bible (specifically knowledge of good and evil gained by Adam and Eve's sin in the Garden of Eden).

How should we interpret the Bible on Sin Eternal Punishment? The punishment for sins should not be LITERALLY eternal, but I won't deny that it can be VERY severe, depending on the circumstances.
 
M

mattj

.
MissDigitalis said:
What does it have to do with this thread? It has everything to do with it.

The point is that eternal punishment is absurd and a scare tactic for people to convert to Christianity or keep their faith in Christianity.

I don't know how you can say that the bible is good when God says things like "if you don't obey you will be forced to eat the flesh of your children".
Click to expand...

MissDigitalis said:
Well according to the bible, it's adultery to marry a widow.
Click to expand...

It says neither of those things. That's the real root of your problem here.
 
C

Cosmical El Amarna

Master Bark
FE21 said:
Because a ruler with absolute power cannot under any circumstances kill a husband to marry a widow, correct?
Click to expand...
That is why Abraham and Sarah did what they did, so that Abraham would not be killed by any other jealous men. The point I was trying to illustrate is that Abraham and Sarah lied, which is a sin, Sarah had sex with men other than her husband, which is a sin. We see then that God punishes the ruler of Egypt and Gerar instead of punishing Abraham and Sarah, further indicating once again that 'sin' is arbitrary, literally we can see that there are times when it is okay to sin in the Bible, literally there are times when something that we today would call sinful or bad is not even seen in that perspective by those in the Bible.

JDavidC said:
With an all-knowing being though, the thought process would be so radically different that you can't apply human standards and expect it to work, except for things that are going to be set in stone and eternal whatever promised. If you go through the Bible, particularly OT, you would have a lot of the former stuff. God would probably have a x 10^b, where b is some ludicrously large number, reasons for the stuff he does, given he has to consider the consequences until the end of time. Needless to say, this is WAY beyond human comprehension, except for eternal stuff, which is where humans can get some grasp of what is right and wrong. I've seen stuff in the Old Testament that would provoke loads of WTF reactions, having stuff with God doing 'merciless' killing, (seemingly) random killing. Here's an example:

Bring wrong type of fire to priest ceremony thing with God there in person: Get incinerated by God. It's the only 'interesting' part of Leviticus IIRC. It's chapter 10 to be specific.
Things get really bad in the world only 6 chapters into Genesis? Flood the entire place and destroy all life, except for Noah and co.

There are a whole lot of things that would have a lot of Christians deconverting if they read it. It's too insane for any human to do, that's for certain, it goes far beyond anything <Insert any/all evil dictator(s)> did. For many people, it would be a case of, this behaviour contradicts a perfectly good person's behaviour, therefore God cannot exist, therefore Christianity is false, therefore there is no point in interpreting the Bible on Sin and Eternal Punishment. However, there is that whole omniscience thing we cannot understand, which is why I have to give him the benefit of the doubt, at least unless and until I end up meeting him in person.

Here is the big issue for me, I can tell eternal punishment does not fit in the Bible, as that IS contradictory to a perfectly good God, without a doubt. Eternal punishment is just torture, and malicious in nature. There is nothing to be gained by it, and there's no going back if it is, by definition, eternal. That's where things are different from all the other 'atrocities' committed by God in the Bible. That's where things finally break down for me, and leads me to conclude there must have been major mistakes in translating into English. We would have SOME knowledge of good and evil, according to the Bible (specifically knowledge of good and evil gained by Adam and Eve's sin in the Garden of Eden).

How should we interpret the Bible on Sin Eternal Punishment? The punishment for sins should not be LITERALLY eternal, but I won't deny that it can be VERY severe, depending on the circumstances.
Click to expand...
Unlike some others on here who are atheist, I do believe in 'God', but not the God of Israel. I think of God as a cosmic, collective, consciousness and the God of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are incompatible with such. So with that said my statements are not that of an atheistic point of view. However, despite knowing and grasping that 'God' can not be fully understood, to say that just because we don't fully understand, is in my opinion, almost irrelevant. One of my personal reasons as to why I no longer believe that the God of Israel is the omnipotent, omniscient God is because on numerous occasions what is done and said is most certainly not indications of omnipotency. I understand what you are saying, and it does make sense, however we are told in Timothy that this God is not one of confusion, yet the religion and texts are filled with contradictions, inconsistencies, and sheer failure of logic in some instances. I truly do get what you are saying, but me personally based of my studies and experiences, I can not subscribe to the notion that this God is good and that its our fault that we can't see past the atrocities.

I do agree with you about the latter portion totally. One thing I'd like to add though is this: it was not the English translation that yielded the 'eternal' part of it, it had been that way for a long, long time, since at least the 4th century ce.

Here is a really simple, clear, and evident example of why it is perfectly legitimate to question the Bible: In the NT we are told in Matthew that Judas hangs himself and that is how he dies, but then in Acts we are told that Judas' stomach explodes one day and he dies that way in a ghastly manner. The problem here is quite obvious, how can it be both? It can't, which means that either Matthew or Acts is wrong in this claim. Which demonstrates exactly that the Bible does indeed have error in it and that it is perfectly legit to then question it all together. So when my youth pastor told me once that the Bible is perfect, free from any possible error, and infallible, I laugh and say poppycock.
 
Last edited:
M

MissDigitalis

love at first sting
FE21 said:
A metaphor, as it CLEARLY forbids eating humans.
Click to expand...

How do you know it's a metaphor? God orders some pretty heinous stuff, like the slaughtering of infants in Jericho. Not to mention that the bible is full of contradictions.

Who's to say the whole damn bible isn't some crazy metaphor?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top