How strong do you think Ash's pokemon are?

[RafaSceptile]

And Torterra has its proper feats as well lmao, losing to Pokémon stronger than it doesn’t invalidate its feats whatsoever. Spoiler: Feats>Win Rate.

Imagine Torterra with feats. I can't. Especially when his Battle Record is a mess, one of the worst between Ash's Pokémon and the worst between Ash's Grass Pokémon. Heck even Snivy and Bayleef were better than Torterra. RIP

Spoilers: Win Rate > Feats when the difference between Win Rates is huge

 

[Fernsday]

“Imagine Torterra with feats” yes overpowering Drapion’s Cross Poison with a type disadvantaged move and landing a Leaf storm against Hippowdon as well as taking multiple hits from it, and said Hippowdon was actually trying to fight Torterra lmao unlike Cynthia’s Garchomp who stood there and let Axew hit it like a punching bag. Battle record doesn’t=feats and feats are more important than battle record period. A person that holds his own against great professional fighters but loses is much more impressive than a person who easily beats 10 amateur fighters.

 

[RafaSceptile]

“Imagine Torterra with feats” yes overpowering Drapion’s Cross Poison with a type disadvantaged move and landing a Leaf storm against Hippowdon as well as taking multiple hits from it, and said Hippowdon was actually trying to fight Torterra lmao unlike Cynthia’s Garchomp who stood there and let Axew hit it like a punching bag. Battle record doesn’t=feats and feats are more important than battle record period. A person that hold his own against great professional fighters but loses is much more impressive than a person who easily beats 10 amateur fighters.

Oh yes, the same type advantage such as Greninja defeating Mega-Sceptile with Water Shuriken and Mega-Charizard X defeating Greninja with Blast Burn

 

[Fernsday]

Never tried to invalidate those feats either mate, you’re arguing with yourself. Even if we disregard type matchups, Paul’s Drapion scales above his Hariyama and Nidoking as well as has shown better manoeuvrability and reflex feats than both and Gliscor>Drapion. Stay in your echo chamber lmao, feats>win rate

Oh yes, the same type advantage such as Greninja defeating Mega-Sceptile with Water Shuriken and Mega-Charizard X defeating Greninja with Blast Burn

 

[RafaSceptile]

Never tried to invalidate those feats either mate, you’re arguing with yourself. Even if we disregard type matchups, Paul’s Drapion scales above his Hariyama and Nidoking as well as has shown better manoeuvrability and reflex feats than both and Gliscor>Drapion. Stay in your echo chamber lmao, feats>win rate

I'm not invalidating those "feats", Just those "feats" are not sufficient for put Torterra on a Battle Frontier Tier, otherwise Rowlet/Bulbasaur are E4 Tier because they were way better than Torterra and Sceptile Champion Tier because its decently good Battle Record + Biggest Feat between Ash's Grass Type Pokémon

 

[Fernsday]

Lol if Gliscor was shown beating previous opponents it lost to like McCann’s Scizor, Snover, Barry’s Roserade and Paul’s Gliscor which it would easily be able to after training you wouldn’t be saying anything. Plus Paul as a trainer is easily around mid FB by the time of the Sinnoh League and has literally the same experience as Ash as a trainer. Drapion scales above his Hariyama and Nidoking who briefly held their own against the Regis and Gliscor>Drapion, via scaling Gliscor is around mid FB after it has finished its training and losing to Electivire in the league is nothing to put it down for as Electivire is comparable to the likes of Infernape,Rowlet is similar or possibly higher from beating a weakened Braviary(Aimed for the leg that Lycanroc bit, tanking super effective sludge bomb from Venusaur is a great feat tho), Bulbasaur is high FB from beating two of Brandon’s Pokémon and Sceptile is E4 level. You care about win rate too much, let’s say Sceptile loses all its matches but then comes back and wins against Tobias’ Darkrai, let’s assume that’s his only win, doesn’t make him weak at all despite having a bad win rate, he’d be just as strong as Sceptile with his normal win rate as they both performed the same feat lmao

 

[RafaSceptile]

Lol if Gliscor was shown beating previous opponents it lost to like McCann’s Scizor, Snover, Barry’s Roserade and Paul’s Gliscor which it would easily be able to after training you wouldn’t be saying anything. Plus Paul as a trainer is easily around mid FB by the time of the Sinnoh League and has literally the same experience as Ash as a trainer. Drapion scales above his Hariyama and Nidoking who briefly held their own against the Regis and Gliscor>Drapion, via scaling Gliscor is around mid FB after it has finished its training and losing to Electivire in the league is nothing to put it down for as, Rowlet is similar or possibly higher from beating a weakened Braviary(Aimed for the leg that Lycanroc bit, tanking super effective sludge bomb from Venusaur is a great feat tho), Bulbasaur is high FB from beating two of Brandon’s Pokémon and Sceptile is E4 level. You care about win rate too much, let’s say Sceptile loses all its matches but then comes back and wins against Tobias’ Darkrai, let’s assume that’s his only win, doesn’t make him weak at all despite having a bad win rate, he’d be just as strong as Sceptile with his normal win rate as they both performed the same feat lmao

If Gliscor is another Battle Frontier Tier, then Krookodile is a Champion Tier since he was way way way way better than Gliscor and with more than twice its Win Rate (80% vs 30%)

 

[Fernsday]

If Gliscor is another Battle Frontier Tier, then Krookodile is a Champion Tier since he was way way way way better than Gliscor and with more than twice its Win Rate (80% vs 30%)

You’re literally missing the point, feats mean more than win rate. Krookodile hasn’t shown any champion level feats despite its win rate, Gliscor beating Drapion is easily a mid FB feat that has nothing to do with any of its past losses as they were before training. You’re making ridiculous exaggerations and missing my point. Krookodile isn’t stronger because of a higher win rate, it is stronger because it has shown better FEATS than Gliscor

 

[RafaSceptile]

You’re literally missing the point, feats mean more than win rate. Krookodile hasn’t shown any champion level feats despite its win rate, Gliscor beating Drapion is easily a mid FB feat that has nothing to do with any of its past losses as they were before training. You’re making ridiculous exaggerations and missing my point. Krookodile isn’t stronger because of a higher win rate, it is stronger because it has shown better FEATS than Gliscor

Yes because Win Rate matters a Lot more when the Pokémon was showed to be powerful during good Battles and the difference is high, and in this case we talk about 50% of difference.

So yeah, Krookodile > Gliscor and this isn't even close

 

[Fernsday]

Never said Gliscor was stronger than Krookodile. I’m saying that Krookodile is stronger because of its feats, not its win rate. Just as how Gliscor is stronger than Noctowl because of its feat of beating a mid FB level Pokémon despite its win rate PRIOR to training

Yes because Win Rate matters a Lot more when the Pokémon was showed to be powerful during good Battles and the difference is high, and in this case we talk about 50% of difference.

So yeah, Krookodile > Gliscor and this isn't even close

 

[RafaSceptile]

Never said Gliscor was stronger than Krookodile. I’m saying that Krookodile is stronger because of its feats, not its win rate. Just as how Gliscor is stronger than Noctowl because of its feat of beating a mid FB level Pokémon

It is stronger by both, but primarily by Win Rate since the difference is like 50% because Gliscor has the lowest Win Rate of all Ash's Pokémon, not even Torkoal was as disastrous

 

[Fernsday]

A

It is stronger by both, but primarily by Win Rate since the difference is like 50% because Gliscor has the lowest Win Rate of all Ash's Pokémon, not even Torkoal was as disastrous

And its losses were prior to training with McCann and its one loss after training was against Electivire and that was while weakened+Electivire is Paul’s strongest alongside his Torterra, AFTER training which is current Gliscor, he beats a Pokémon that scales above two Pokémon that briefly held their own against Regis which puts Gliscor around mid FB, simple as that.

 

[RafaSceptile]

A

And its losses were prior to training with McCann and its one loss after training was against Electivire and that was while weakened+Electivire is Paul’s strongest alongside his Torterra, AFTER training which is current Gliscor, he beats a Pokémon that scales above two Pokémon that briefly held their own against Regis which puts Gliscor around mid FB, simple as that.

And if Gliscor is Battle Frontier Tier, Krookodile is Champion Tier because it was WAAAAY better than Gliscor, simple as that

 

[Fernsday]

And if Gliscor is Battle Frontier Tier, Krookodile is Champion Tier because it was WAAAAY better than Gliscor, simple as that

No it isn’t because it hasn’t shown any Champion tier feats lmao. Gliscor has shown a mid FB level feat. Krookodile has shown high FB level feats by beating Pokémon around that level(Iris’ Dragonite who held its own against the Forces of Nature) if Krookodile was undefeated by beating 10 Magikarps he wouldn’t be high FB tier lmao. Simple as that.

 

[RafaSceptile]

No it isn’t because it hasn’t shown any Champion tier feats lmao. Gliscor has shown a mid FB level feat. Krookodile has shown high FB level feats by beating Pokémon around that level(Iris’ Dragonite who held its own against the Forces of Nature) if Krookodile was undefeated by beating 10 Magikarps he wouldn’t be high FB tier lmao. Simple as that.

Again, absolute nobody of Ash's Pokémon was showed to Battles against 10 Magikarps, even Ash's Pokemon with the lowest of Battles were showed against decently good opponents (minus the Pokémon Journeys Team?). So that is not the case.
Krookodile > Gliscor and isn't Even close. As simple as that.

 

[Fernsday]

I am giving an example. If Krookodile beat opponents that were weaker than Drapion that doesn’t put him at that level, Krookodile is at that level because he has beaten opponents stronger than Drapion. Past win rate has nothing to do with it, especially since all of Gliscor’s losses excluding Electivire were before it trained

 

[RafaSceptile]

I am giving an example. If Krookodile beat opponents that were weaker than Drapion that doesn’t put him at that level, Krookodile is at that level because he has beaten opponents stronger than Drapion. Past win rate has nothing to do with it, especially since all of Gliscor’s losses excluding Electivire were before it trained

Krookodile defeated as strong opponents as Gliscor's unique strong opponent consistently during BW, and even with less Battles it won more Battles than Gliscor.

So, Krookodile > Gliscor by far

 

[Fernsday]

So, Krookodile > Gliscor by far

Because of feats, not win rate.

 

[RafaSceptile]

Because of feats, not win rate.

Because Win Rate mainly, since its Win Rate is WAY better with MORE wins and against strong opponents

 

[SerGoldenhandtheJust]

Ah **** here we go again