How Strong is Ash's Charizard?

[Genaller]

THIS!We don't know how strong he is after his training yet you have XYZ's fanboys knowing everything without concrete evidence about that matter.

Well this reasoning is loose but bear with me. Charizard trained in the CV with the goal of being the strongest of its species when initially it couldn't beat any of the other Charizard their. At the end of BW, Charizard is implied to have not returned to CV implying he has nothing left to do there meaning he's surpassed everyone in CV placing him among the top Charizard in the planet. Alain's Charizard can keep up with and later on even beat E4 Aces (since as MC X it can beat E4 Megas). E4s are defined as master trainers of a singular type meaning their Pokémon should be amongst the strongest of their species. Alain's Charizard being on that lvl must mean it's also amongst the strongest Charizard in the world. Since both Charizard are amongst the best of their species, chances are that they're on par. So a statement like Ash's base Charizard ~ Alain's base Charizard while not iron clad is still quite reasonable. Also the first thing everyone thought of when Alain was introduced was Charizard vs Charizard (and not the lame version we got in the KL). I don't think Charizard is Ash's best (3rd for me) but I will admit that Ash's Charizard is probably the most 3-dimensional Pokémon in the anime.

 

[345ash-greninja]

THIS!We don't know how strong he is after his training yet you have XYZ's fanboys knowing everything without concrete evidence about that matter.

Ash's Charizard may beat Alain's Base Charizard, but surely it won't overwhelm base Gardevoir and force it to Mega Evolve and even after Mega Evolving knocking it off it's feat dealing serious damage which made Mega Gardevoir drop to its knees in exhaustion afterwards.

 

[Soniman]

This cross thread AG debate has been the most entertaining thing to happen on here for a long time.

I'd say A-G is E4 level considering his battles with MG and MCX (Who can go toe to toe with E4 Pokemon). But anything higher than that is up in the air

Charizard though we don't really know since it hasn't seen serious action in over ten years (thanks BW). I'd say he might be E4 level considering his last victory being over a legendary so who knows how strong he's gotten since then

 

[satopi]

I'd say E4 Ace lvl.

 

[Darthlord7]

Well this reasoning is loose but bear with me. Charizard trained in the CV with the goal of being the strongest of its species when initially it couldn't beat any of the other Charizard their. At the end of BW, Charizard is implied to have not returned to CV implying he has nothing left to do there meaning he's surpassed everyone in CV placing him among the top Charizard in the planet. Alain's Charizard can keep up with and later on even beat E4 Aces (since as MC X it can beat E4 Megas). E4s are defined as master trainers of a singular type meaning their Pokémon should be amongst the strongest of their species. Alain's Charizard being on that lvl must mean it's also amongst the strongest Charizard in the world. Since both Charizard are amongst the best of their species, chances are that they're on par. So a statement like Ash's base Charizard ~ Alain's base Charizard while not iron clad is still quite reasonable. Also the first thing everyone thought of when Alain was introduced was Charizard vs Charizard (and not the lame version we got in the KL). I don't think Charizard is Ash's best (3rd for me) but I will admit that Ash's Charizard is probably the most 3-dimensional Pokémon in the anime.

This is what I think too.Charizard surpassed everyone in CV so he has no reason to stay there and probably he is training in Pallet(I cannot imagine him not training judging his personality ).And yeah I also assume he's on par with Alain's Charizard in his base form.This what I wanted too a Ash's Charizard vs Alain's Charizard and why not a Ash's Sceptile vs Sawyer's Sceptile as well.I also think MC-X doesn't deserve that much praise than MC-Y in my opinion.Well,it's ok to not think that Charizard isn't Ash's best everyone has different opinions and that's respectable.About the most 3-dimensional Pokemon this is the reason why Charizard is my favorite Pokemon in Ash's team.(I like more Venusaur as a Kanto starter though)

Don't worry about your reasoning we just hold a decent conversation.

Ash's Charizard may beat Alain's Base Charizard, but surely it won't overwhelm base Gardevoir and force it to Mega Evolve and even after Mega Evolving knocking it off it's feat dealing serious damage which made Mega Gardevoir drop to its knees in exhaustion afterwards.

Well you cannot know that for sure.If Diantha fought against Hoenn Charizard she would curb stomp.But a Charizard who finished his training and she fought like she did with Greninja she would probably lose the upper hand for a while just like with Ash-Greninja.And if she spams Shadow Ball against a Dark-type Pokemon who cut through it or overpowered all the time instead of Moonblast ofc he would gain the upper hand something that happened in the end.We had that conversation on another thread.No need to repeat it.

 

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

Ash's Charizard=Alain's Base Charizard
Ash's Charizard>Sawyer's Base Sceptile
Ash's Charizard=Sawyer's Mega Sceptile
Ash's Charizard>Base Greninja
Ash's Charizard=<Ash-Greninja
Ash's Charizard>Ash's Pikachu
Ash's Charizard>Ash's Nerfachu
Ash's Charizard=Ash's Haxachu
Ash's Charizard=Blaze Infernape
Ash's Charizard=Overgrow Sceptile
Ash's Charizard=Paul's Torterra
Ash's Charizard>Paul's Electivire
Ash's Charizard>Trip's Serperior
Ash's Charizard>Cameron's Hydreigon
Ash's Charizard>Cameron's Lucario

 

[Power Up]

If MG was actually trying to win, AG would have been crushed like Wikstrom's Mega Scizor.

Why are you proudly stating you are one of the half dozen XY circlejerkers lol?



Why though? How does Slash, Dragon Tail, or Wing Attack not do damage? If you're talking about "type-effectiveness," MCX had Flamethrower and Blast Burn, and the latter did a lot of damage.

Are you seriously suggesting that Charizard would be unable to destroy regular Water Shurikens with Slash or Dragon Tail, like how Mega Sceptile or MCX destroyed them, or explode them with Flamethrower?

If you're talking about the Giant/Orange Shuriken, that's something AG only pulled out as a finishing move near the end against M-Sceptile or MCX, and not a spammable attack.

All I see is Ash-Greninja jobbing three times to the same opponent. <- See what how dumb that, and what you said, sounds.

At least Ash-Greninja doesn't have any embarrassing feats...OOP Charizard lost to a Dusknoir! TOTALLY Champion level there dude! MG Was trying to win there in the end, but I admit Ash-Greninja would lose if the fight continued, but MG would lose tons of health.

I'm not proudly stating anything, hence the apostrophes. I've watched all of the seasons since I was a kid and I'm not a genwunner and a Charisexual like some of the people here.

First of all, they wouldn't do substantial damage. Just like how Ash-Greninja's one shot and damage moves are Aerial Ace and WS. Cut and Double Team are there to give Ash-Greninja the opening to use these moves. Cut is still op and has one shot many poke on as well. Now
Charizard's modest does not have any EFFECTIVE moves or any STRONG finishing move she like MS and MC do. And yes I am talking about type effectiveness and MC had a mega evo, plus it was OP, and BB is already an op move.

I notice how you changed from Flamethrower destroying WS to Slash and DT destroying it. You obviously knew you couldn't win the other fight, so you changed your opinion.

Classic

THIS!We don't know how strong he is after his training yet you have XYZ's fanboys knowing everything without concrete evidence about that matter.

And we have Charisexuals and genwunners like you proclaiming him as the GOD of Pokémon. And I'm the fanboy?

Until he Charizard actually comes back, we don't know anything. Yes, I admit that he will most likely get stronger, BUT will be stronger than AG who is going through some thrashing of his own? NO

This cross thread AG debate has been the most entertaining thing to happen on here for a long time.

I'd say A-G is E4 level considering his battles with MG and MCX (Who can go toe to toe with E4 Pokemon). But anything higher than that is up in the air

Charizard though we don't really know since it hasn't seen serious action in over ten years (thanks BW). I'd say he might be E4 level considering his last victory being over a legendary so who knows how strong he's gotten since then

I deserve some credit for that

And I agree with you.

This is what I think too.Charizard surpassed everyone in CV so he has no reason to stay there and probably he is training in Pallet(I cannot imagine him not training judging his personality ).And yeah I also assume he's on par with Alain's Charizard in his base form.This what I wanted too a Ash's Charizard vs Alain's Charizard and why not a Ash's Sceptile vs Sawyer's Sceptile as well.I also think MC-X doesn't deserve that much praise than MC-Y in my opinion.Well,it's ok to not think that Charizard isn't Ash's best everyone has different opinions and that's respectable.About the most 3-dimensional Pokemon this is the reason why Charizard is my favorite Pokemon in Ash's team.(I like more Venusaur as a Kanto starter though)

Don't worry about your reasoning we just hold a decent conversation.



Well you cannot know that for sure.If Diantha fought against Hoenn Charizard she would curb stomp.But a Charizard who finished his training and she fought like she did with Greninja she would probably lose the upper hand for a while just like with Ash-Greninja.And if she spams Shadow Ball against a Dark-type Pokemon who cut through it or overpowered all the time instead of Moonblast ofc he would gain the upper hand something that happened in the end.We had that conversation on another thread.No need to repeat it.

You couldn't have said this during the discussion? Alright, let me ask you. Do you still think Ash-Greninja would lose to Charizard?

I also agree with everything PokemonBattleFantic said. That's an accurate list

 

[Darthlord7]

At least Ash-Greninja doesn't have any embarrassing feats...OOP Charizard lost to a Dusknoir! TOTALLY Champion level there dude! MG Was trying to win there in the end, but I admit Ash-Greninja would lose if the fight continued, but MG would lose tons of health.

I'm not proudly stating anything, hence the apostrophes. I've watched all of the seasons since I was a kid and I'm not a genwunner and a Charisexual like some of the people here.

First of all, they wouldn't do substantial damage. Just like how Ash-Greninja's one shot and damage moves are Aerial Ace and WS. Cut and Double Team are there to give Ash-Greninja the opening to use these moves. Cut is still op and has one shot many poke on as well. Now
Charizard's modest does not have any EFFECTIVE moves or any STRONG finishing move she like MS and MC do. And yes I am talking about type effectiveness and MC had a mega evo, plus it was OP, and BB is already an op move.

I notice how you changed from Flamethrower destroying WS to Slash and DT destroying it. You obviously knew you couldn't win the other fight, so you changed your opinion.

Classic



And we have Charisexuals and genwunners like you proclaiming him as the GOD of Pokémon. And I'm the fanboy?

Until he Charizard actually comes back, we don't know anything. Yes, I admit that he will most likely get stronger, BUT will be stronger than AG who is going through some thrashing of his own? NO



I deserve some credit for that

And I agree with you.



You couldn't have said this during the discussion? Alright, let me ask you. Do you still think Ash-Greninja would lose to Charizard?

I also agree with everything PokemonBattleFantic said. That's an accurate list

Yes it can lose against Charizard but it can also win.I never stated that Ash-Greninja cannot beat Charizard at all.I could also say that Infernape in its blaze mode could be a big threat as well.I don't put Pikachu because it's inconsistent.

 

[Power Up]

Yes it can lose against Charizard but it can also win.I never stated that Ash-Greninja cannot beat Charizard at all.I could also say that Infernape in its blaze mode could be a big threat as well.I don't put Pikachu because it's inconsistent.

I'll take it

 

[Navin]

At least Ash-Greninja doesn't have any embarrassing feats...OOP Charizard lost to a Dusknoir! TOTALLY Champion level there dude! MG Was trying to win there in the end, but I admit Ash-Greninja would lose if the fight continued, but MG would lose tons of health.

At least go full-on troll or be serious - you just sound dumb right now. Yeah, if Ash screwed over A-G against the most powerful Frontier Brain, the frog would lose too. Except both base and Mega Gardevoir were never going all-out once in that fight. Diantha explicitly saying "full power" against the TR binds is an implication of Gardevoir not doing so in the battle beforehand. She was battling to learn about A-G, and not to win; she had Gardevoir battle defensively, adopt a fixed stance, spamming Shadow Balls - contrast that to the instant GRB-level MoonBlasts and dynamic positioning against M-Scizor or in the Flare climax.

I'm not proudly stating anything, hence the apostrophes. I've watched all of the seasons since I was a kid and I'm not a genwunner and a Charisexual like some of the people here. First of all, they wouldn't do substantial damage. Just like how Ash-Greninja's one shot and damage moves are Aerial Ace and WS. Cut and Double Team are there to give Ash-Greninja the opening to use these moves. Cut is still op and has one shot many poke on as well. NowCharizard's modest does not have any EFFECTIVE moves or any STRONG finishing move she like MS and MC do. And yes I am talking about type effectiveness and MC had a mega evo, plus it was OP, and BB is already an op move.

So, you seriously believe that Charizard doesn't have the strength to make any of his attacks hurt, or doesn't have the stamina to tank a WS or Cut?

I notice how you changed from Flamethrower destroying WS to Slash and DT destroying it. You obviously knew you couldn't win the other fight, so you changed your opinion. Classic

Topu Keko:

Why can't Flamethrower counter Water Shuriken (cause an explosion)?

Are you seriously suggesting that Charizard would be unable to destroy regular Water Shurikens with Slash or Dragon Tail, like how Mega Sceptile or MCX destroyed them, or explode them with Flamethrower?

Reading must be difficult through those fanboy glasses.

"Classic"

 

[Mrs. Oreo]

I'd say that he's on par with the aces of most E4 members, but I doubt we'll ever see him prove that since I don't think Ash will ever use him against a future E4 member. :[

 

[_LightMeww_]

Ash's Zard should be as strong as Alain's Zard, so E4 ace level.

 

[satopi]

Ash's Charizard is so strong, his type disadvantage was super effective against his opponents. I seriously believe he can knock down whoever's he's up against as far as Ash's team goes.

 

[345ash-greninja]

Ash's Charizard is so strong, his type disadvantage was super effective against his opponents. I seriously believe he can knock down whoever's he's up against as far as Ash's team goes.

Considering it lost to Brandon's Dusclops which was defeated by Bulbasaur afterwards, I don't think so mate. Ash-Greninja is defeating it for sure. While I admit that Charizard is also really powerful, it isn't defeating Ash-Greninja without Mega Evolving.

 

[Frozocrone]

Considering it lost to Brandon's Dusclops which was defeated by Bulbasaur afterwards, I don't think so mate. Ash-Greninja is defeating it for sure. While I admit that Charizard is also really powerful, it isn't defeating Ash-Greninja without Mega Evolving.

That was Ash being stupid. Not Charizard.

 

[345ash-greninja]

That was Ash being stupid. Not Charizard.

Well, still I won't call it Ash's strongest Pokemon. If it was really so, then it should be defeating multiple Pokemon without taking any damage like Mega Sceptile did against Tierno. Charizard still took some damage from Golem while sweeping half of Gary's team. I mean that Blastoise was Gary's ace obviously, but Scizor and Golem should've been taken down without taking any damage. But Charizard took damage from Golem. Mega Sceptile, a Pokemon whom Ash-Greninja defeated, could do this. If you look at Ash-Greninja vs non-Megas, it took damage as base Greninja, but after transforming into Ash-Greninja it pretty much one-shotted them(Avalugg battle was an exception though, still it was unmastered Ash-Greninja and Avulugg was also getting itself healed with Ice Body activated by Abomasnow's Snow Warning ability).

 

[snorlax512]

Well, still I won't call it Ash's strongest Pokemon. If it was really so, then it should be defeating multiple Pokemon without taking any damage like Mega Sceptile did against Tierno. Charizard still took some damage from Golem while sweeping half of Gary's team. I mean that Blastoise was Gary's ace obviously, but Scizor and Golem should've been taken down without taking any damage. But Charizard took damage from Golem. Mega Sceptile, a Pokemon whom Ash-Greninja defeated, could do this. If you look at Ash-Greninja vs non-Megas, it took damage as base Greninja, but after transforming into Ash-Greninja it pretty much one-shotted them(Avalugg battle was an exception though, still it was unmastered Ash-Greninja and Avulugg was also getting itself healed with Ice Body activated by Abomasnow's Snow Warning ability).

Charizard pretty much destroyed Scizor and Golem effortlessly in the Johto League. If Ash wasn't stupid and told Charizard to just fly that magnitude wouldn't hit him at all, and he would have one-shotted Golem with dragon rage. He also improved in the Charicific valley and was never used to it's potential (other than wrecking Iris' Dragonite) so I would consider it and the Pikachu against Alain the only combination of GPICSS who can definitely take out Ash-Greninja.

 

[345ash-greninja]

Charizard pretty much destroyed Scizor and Golem effortlessly in the Johto League. If Ash wasn't stupid and told Charizard to just fly that magnitude wouldn't hit him at all, and he would have one-shotted Golem with dragon rage. He also improved in the Charicific valley and was never used to it's potential (other than wrecking Iris' Dragonite) so I would consider it and the Pikachu against Alain the only combination of GPICSS who can definitely take out Ash-Greninja.

Well, I am just saying that Ash-Greninja is above Charizard. I am not denying that it's powerful, but I think it's below Ash-Greninja and at the second spot along with Peakachu. It haven't still battled any E4 member or Champion to prove that it's E4 mega level. The Diantha battle pretty much proves that Ash-Greninja is definitely E4 Mega level.

 

[snorlax512]

Well, I am just saying that Ash-Greninja is above Charizard. I am not denying that it's powerful, but I think it's below Ash-Greninja and at the second spot along with Peakachu. It haven't still battled any E4 member or Champion to prove that it's E4 mega level. The Diantha battle pretty much proves that Ash-Greninja is definitely E4 Mega level.

I mean Charizard and Pikachu together are the only combination of two Pokemon in GPICSS that can definitely beat Ash-Greninja, because the rest of his Pokemon aren't E4 level.

 

[345ash-greninja]

I mean Charizard and Pikachu together are the only combination of two Pokemon in GPICSS that can definitely beat Ash-Greninja, because the rest of his Pokemon aren't E4 level.

Yes, I pretty much agree with this. I definitely think that Ash's Charizard and Peakachu are the only two other Pokemon of Ash that are around E4 ace level, while Ash-Greninja is E4 Mega level. Blaze Infernape may come close to being E4 ace level.