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How would Ash winning a league change the anime?
- Thread starter U.N. Owen
- Start date
U.N. Owen
In Brightest Day, In Blackest Night ...
All dream crushers sans Alain debut after the eighth gym. I don't believe Hau is any different.
LilligantLewis
Bonnie stan
Hau is a game character. Ash has never lost in the league to a game character.
345ash-greninja
Auto-Memories Doll
There's a first time for everything though.
Yuugis Black Magician
Namaikina Imouto
My crack theory is that it's Chief Director Yuyama Kunihiko who makes the decree but I can't say for sure. It might even be something forced down from Game Freak, although I'm not sure how much they care about the cartoon. My guess is that Yuyama has an old fashion idea that if Satoshi wins the League there is nothing left for him to do...but that's why they have the Champion League and can just introduce a National League (for Japan) and a World League. Satoshi would be able to 'advance' on paper but essentially be stuck losing to hundreds if not thousands of other trainers for the rest of eternity.
By the way, here's a list of the series directors thus far:
Hidaka Masamitsu (First Series, Advanced Generation #1-158)
Sutou Norihiko (Advanced Generation #170-Best Wishes #142)
Asada Yuuji (DP #171-191; Asada is the episode director of all of Iwane Masa'aki's episodes as animation supervisor. He personally storyboarded and directed five of the last twenty episodes of DP by himself, an incredible feat. Those were #172, #176, #186, #187 and #191)
Yajima Tetsuo (XY)
Tomiyasu Daiki (Deputy Director: XY & Z #1-30; Director: XY & Z #31, Sun & Moon #1+)
For series composer:
Shudou Takeshi (First Series #1-157)
Tomioka Atsuhiro (Diamond & Pearl #1-XY & Z #47)
Matsui Aya (Sun & Moon #1-present)
Clearly you can see that after Shudou left the series there was a big gap without a series composer. That meant the duties would fall to the series director and chief director but since those three didn't really have strong visions as directors the story fell a part. Tomioka (and later Asada Yuuji) seemed to really push forth a strong vision during DP. I wish someone would ask Asada and Iwane on Twitter about how DP's story came about.
Tomiyasu Daiki was also the series director of Pokemon Generations with Tomioka Atsuhiro as the series composer and writer of every episode.
Genaller
Silver Soul
Honestly that explains why there was so much filler in season 4 though at the same time we did get some pretty awesome stuff in that time frame like the Johto League and Battle Frontier. Gotta give props to DP for how cohesive the overall narrative felt. I feel like they probably wanted to get to the heart of the matter on the philosophy of catching and raising Pokémon which prior to DP was never truly challenged when they were coming up with the story.
For some reason I preferred the more overblown ones since it seems like it's making fun of it's own monotony instead of just being a generic formula.
Plus Ash being the designated loser in his own goal despite all the accomplishments he makes as a by product makes him kinda sympathetic. It seemed like the whole point of his loss in XY was that he was the moral victor.
I'm sure it's possible to make some of those characters develop their Pokemon without the need of a competition arc. Hell if anything a more unique and individual route helps make that character stand out on their own and gives them more agency than 'X character is better than Y character'. I like that SM Ash is relying less on battling to demonstrate his Pokemon for example, and can take many different scenarios to show their niches and his resourcefulness with them.
Some of the ways characters leech off of besting another can get cheap at times as well, since it can sometimes come off as excess 'Worfing'. Ash's progression is only cheapened more by the fact that most cast members get to fight on even terms with him at the end of each series to show their improvement, even when they've done significantly less than him. Hell even in XY which was considered the peak of his experience, somehow Clemont and even SERENA were able to go to toe to toe with him by the end of the series with a zillionth of the same training, which only made his arc seem even more futile. Even with SM Ash's more laid back battling, any companion other than Kiawe being able to match him this series would look laughable, but I have no doubt it will happen.
Also sometimes the writers don't get the difference between showing off a characters experience and just pitting them against a straw loser to make them look comparatively less unremarkable. No matter how many times they spam jobbers like Team Rocket, it doesn't make the protagonists look anymore talented or badass, it just shows they're not THAT lame.
Some of the ways characters leech off of besting another can get cheap at times as well, since it can sometimes come off as excess 'Worfing'. Ash's progression is only cheapened more by the fact that most cast members get to fight on even terms with him at the end of each series to show their improvement, even when they've done significantly less than him. Hell even in XY which was considered the peak of his experience, somehow Clemont and even SERENA were able to go to toe to toe with him by the end of the series with a zillionth of the same training, which only made his arc seem even more futile. Even with SM Ash's more laid back battling, any companion other than Kiawe being able to match him this series would look laughable, but I have no doubt it will happen.
Also sometimes the writers don't get the difference between showing off a characters experience and just pitting them against a straw loser to make them look comparatively less unremarkable. No matter how many times they spam jobbers like Team Rocket, it doesn't make the protagonists look anymore talented or badass, it just shows they're not THAT lame.
For what has to be the trillionth time...Serena never went toe-to-toe with Ash. She got a hit in. In a single sparring match. After Braixen took a bunch of hits. And Pikachu didn't even look hurt. And it was Braixen's strongest move.
Stop saying this.
Zoruagible
Lover of underrated characters
It'd give the writers the chance to flesh out the champion league DP set up but was completely forgotten about since it ended.
And perhaps Elite Four characters would actually get characters again instead of some solely being graced by cameos in movie intros.... some like Grimsley don't appear period. DP and Kanto remain the only ones that actually showed them all, though Kanto did it years after the OS.... don't really hold much faith in SM changing that, Kahili's one of many SM characters that haven't appeared because of their fetish on using OCs and not canon characters
We don't actually get to see that many Elite Four members battle either. Only Agatha, Drake, the DP E4 members, Caitlin, Siebold, and Malva. Lance appeared while he was a champion so he's exempt from that. It'd be nice to see that change too, and battling against the E4 would be a great opportunity to bring back old Pokemon.Especially once the Kanto wankfest ends so his Johto->Alola Pokemon can join in
But he did and it's true facts
And perhaps Elite Four characters would actually get characters again instead of some solely being graced by cameos in movie intros.... some like Grimsley don't appear period. DP and Kanto remain the only ones that actually showed them all, though Kanto did it years after the OS.... don't really hold much faith in SM changing that, Kahili's one of many SM characters that haven't appeared because of their fetish on using OCs and not canon characters
We don't actually get to see that many Elite Four members battle either. Only Agatha, Drake, the DP E4 members, Caitlin, Siebold, and Malva. Lance appeared while he was a champion so he's exempt from that. It'd be nice to see that change too, and battling against the E4 would be a great opportunity to bring back old Pokemon.
But he did and it's true facts
With the amount of character derailment this anime goes through, potentially not much. Ash winning a league wouldn't stop writers who are either incompetent or cynical from making him stupid in the next region. Note, though, that even if they didn't, it isn't necessarily a big change in scenario, because Ash adopts new Pokemon anyway when he moves on.
However, if Ash winning a league was made as meaningful as it should be, I'd say he should become a mentor to someone new in the next region. Ideally--both from a storytelling and marketing perspective--the newcomer he mentored would be the protagonist of that region's game. Doing this would let Ash have some lasting development, and it would also even allow him to be in games. Mind you, Ash has never been "banned" from games, but putting him in them as a playable character has been avoided as his choices of Pokemon to raise aren't necessarily going to be a player's choice, but if Ash is an NPC mentor instead, that issue doesn't apply.
However, if Ash winning a league was made as meaningful as it should be, I'd say he should become a mentor to someone new in the next region. Ideally--both from a storytelling and marketing perspective--the newcomer he mentored would be the protagonist of that region's game. Doing this would let Ash have some lasting development, and it would also even allow him to be in games. Mind you, Ash has never been "banned" from games, but putting him in them as a playable character has been avoided as his choices of Pokemon to raise aren't necessarily going to be a player's choice, but if Ash is an NPC mentor instead, that issue doesn't apply.
ash&charizardfan
Humans are tools
I think this is a tournament where ash could win t all, since it is the first league that will be happening in alola so it wouldn't be a big tournament so i dont think it is going to hold the candle to leagues of different regions. So it could give the writers a good time to give ash something big after 12-13 years of BF.
I have to agree with this assessment. If ever there was a time for Ash to win a League and still be able to continue with the "status quo", this is it. This is the first League in Alola and we don't even know how many participants will be in it. I could easily see Ash winning the League, possibly even beating Ryuki, bu then losing to another Trainer, either Gary, one of the LG player characters, or a Gen 8 Trainer and going to that next region to improve, knowing that even though he won a League, he still has a long way to go before he becomes the best.
LilligantLewis
Bonnie stan
shoz999
Back when Tigers used to smoke.
You know. With all that's been going on with the SM season, honestly. I don't want to see Ash win the Alolan League this way. I think SM is a good season however I think it did a poor job of handling much of the Alolan league so far, more specifically the Totem Trials, and some of the content in-between them like the Necrozma storyline. One of the reasons why fans were so pumped and excited about the idea of Ash winning the Kalos League in XYZ was not only because he was in the finals for the first time but because the entire XYZ season was just that good leading up to that moment. All the Gym Battles felt good, all the filler content felt like it was worth watching, all of his Pokemon worked hard to the point they reached their final evolutions and not only that but the XYZ season felt like it was going from beginning to end, not a sequel to the Best Wishes series, but it felt like it's own storyline, a reboot in some ways. XYZ was honestly, if I dare say it, the perfect time for Ash to win the Pokemon League. Sun and Moon is a good season but it doesn't give that feeling it's "perfect" like XYZ did. I kind of feel like whoever made XYZ arguably the most memorable season out of the Pokemon anime series should be in charge of the decision for Ash to win the Pokemon League. I feel like if they do it for the Alolan League, it won't really feel earned but rather rushed. I liked the Kahuna battles but the Totem Trials felt kind of lackluster, the epic storylines they had planned didn't felt well-executed and while the "stay-at-school" idea was a nice change, I do think Ash can do a 6-kid crew traveling from across each islands. If you don't think that's possible, look at Pokemon Adventures XY Arc. It is arguably the greatest Pokemon storyline that involves traveling with companions, making forgettable examples of how bad friendly rivals are, Shauna, Tierno and Trevor, into memorable supporting character of a 5-kid group. To sum it up, I feel like the SM season isn't the best time for Ash to win a Pokemon League. In fact in some ways I feel like the anime team is planning on giving Ash a last-minute rival, similar to other anime series, considering the very strong lack of challengers joining in the Alolan league.
Yuugis Black Magician
Namaikina Imouto
I never expected Satoshi to win the Kalos League. He had no driving thrust to win the League throughout most of the series and Alan was pretty much clearly going to be the one to win it considering how much focus he got. If Satoshi was ever going to win a League it would've been in Diamond & Pearl but with the Shinji battle as the Championship Round. Satoshi will probably lose to Gladio or Royal Mask in the final round this time.
LilligantLewis
Bonnie stan
Ash doesn't lose leagues to game characters.
Yuugis Black Magician
Namaikina Imouto
He hasn't before but that doesn't mean he can't now, especially with all the formula-breaking going on in Sun & Moon.
Mind you, I'd prefer he lose to Takuto again, but I doubt I'll get that.