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How would you “fix” certain rivals

Ubermuk

Ubermuk

Sticky & Sweet
Leonhart said:
but I think that battles where two or three Pokemon per side carry most of the match are more realistic than expecting every single Pokemon involved to get a win or carry their own weight.
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Maybe not realistic by real world standards but it would still be better than there being fall guys on both Ash's team and his opponent's team.

It sucks watching some Pokemon battle knowing they're just there to serve as a punching bag...
 
RafaSceptile

RafaSceptile

Well-Known Member
Leonhart said:
Some people might not like it [I'm personally a bit neutral about Satoshi versus Shinji since the final battle between Elekible and Goukazaru is the only part that I remember clearly], but I think that battles where two or three Pokemon per side carry most of the match are more realistic than expecting every single Pokemon involved to get a win or carry their own weight.
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No, but at least you can expect something better about the team. This is why I consider Ash VS Kukui better than Ash VS Paul, because both teams have their moment to shine (but Kukui's 6th Pokémon) in a decently good way.
Even then, I consider better a tie, I take the double tie during Ash VS Sawyer than a 50% of the KO between only 2 Pokemon.
 
Leonhart

Leonhart

Imagineer
Ubermuk said:
It sucks watching some Pokemon battle knowing they're just there to serve as a punching bag...
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And I can empathize with that since many of my favorite Pokemon that Satoshi's had were rather weak and lost battles often, but it's difficult to give every Pokemon an equal standing in battles.
 
SerenaRulez

SerenaRulez

Well-Known Member
Ubermuk said:
Maybe not realistic by real world standards but it would still be better than there being fall guys on both Ash's team and his opponent's team.

It sucks watching some Pokemon battle knowing they're just there to serve as a punching bag...
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But how would battles work if all the Pokemon involved got the same number of wins in total so that nobody would be a fall guy? Just a back and forth routine of them winning and then losing and then repeating the pattern? That sounds boring. :(
 
Leonhart

Leonhart

Imagineer
Blastmaster said:
I don't really mind the aces getting a lot of KOs if it fits the story. My problem with Gary's battle is more the way that it happened. Literally every one of Gary's Pokemon against Charizard got OHKOed.
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I dislike imbalanced battles for the most part, as well as ones where contrived battle strategies clinch the win at the last minute, but that describes a lot of Satoshi's battles in a nutshell. As flawed as Satoshi versus Shigeru was, at least the battle between Lizardon and Kamex was intense. I just wish there had been more build-up for Lizardon's rivalry with Kamex.
 
JustAStatistic

JustAStatistic

Super Casual Trainer
Ash's rivals/opponents only. (At least, the ones I remember off the top of my head.)

Ritchie: Drop the Ash's Pokémon were tired drama. Disqualified for disobedience is fine, disqualified for sleep is not.

Gary: More appearances, backstory, and relationship with Ash. I understand why we didn't get it in Kanto, but he should've shown up more in Johto. Admittedly, I don't hold this too hard against the writers, mainly because it was their first time and they got better later on.

Harrison: Did his job of advertising the third gen. Should've shown up in Hoenn, if not as a league competitor, at least as a cameo.

Katie: Promoted to main Hoenn rival. How is she still the coolest girl Ash has ever battled?

Morrison: His conflict felt unearned. If he had been a friend of Ash's before the league I could buy it.

Tyson: He's fine. I like how Ash isn't the only trainer with a mascot Pokémon. Once again, more appearances before the league wouldn't have hurt him.

Paul: Almost perfect rival. Maybe tone down the Chimchar abuse and the Maylene drama, basically make him less "evil".

Conway: Did his job. Mostly fine.

Nando: See above. Also fine.

Barry: Takes out one or two of Paul's team in his final battle. Magmortar had no business tanking Hydro Cannon.

Tobias: Either give him backstory ("this is why/how I have legendaries" or "here's a regular Pokemon I used to catch the legendaries") or acknowledgement ("Darkrai trainer lost to E4/Champion" or "he opted out of fighting the E4/Champion and vanished"). Note that Ash was the only league trainer to take down two of his legendaries, maybe a throwaway line about Paul having the potential to down at least one as well.

Trip: Either make him experienced (or at least not a new trainer) or make him an Ash-counter like Sawyer. Give him his 6v6 at the league.

Bianca: She's not fine, but needs Cheren to play off of to be significantly better. Maybe a 3v3 with Ash outside of the league.

Stephan: See Conway/Nando. Give Zebstrika some electric moves.

Cameron: Delete him. Tone done his stupidity. Make him like that guy from Haikyuu, a genius in battling, but kind of dumb outside that niche.

Virgil: Give him a Sylveon to promote fairies and gen 6.

Sawyer: Appears earlier in XY. Make him at least have traveled through Hoenn.

Alain: Make him fight Gurkinn/Korrina/Wulfric earlier, so he has a few badges before Ash convinces him to join the league. Gives Ash the keystone/Charizardite X he got from Lysandre after the TF arc. (Imagine the salt lol.) He's fine as the Kalos dream crusher.

Gladion: Has 6 Pokemon by the league. Full battle against Ash.

Kiawe: More interactions with Gladion before the league. (I really liked their matchup.) Has a real 3v3 with Ash post-league.

Hau: More appearances pre-league. At least a 3v3 battle with Ash. Give him Decidueye's or Alolan Raichu's Z-move.

Faba: 3v3 with Ash. Psychic Z-move. Let Meltan evolve earlier and solo his team.

Guzma: More appearances pre-league. Mostly fine otherwise.

Sophocles, Lana: More captures and onscreen battles. Let them do a grand trial.

Mallow, Lillie: More onscreen battles. Let them do one or two regular trials.

Kukui: Let us see more of his team pre-league, and maybe let him catch Tapu Koko and get Tapunium-Z before the league as well.
 
CMButch

CMButch

Kanto is love. Kanto is life.
RafaSceptile said:
It barely feels like a 6vs6 because Charizard and Snorlax defeated 5/6 of Gary's Team. This is the exact same criticism I have with Ash VS Paul when Infernape and Drapion did half of the battle (at least Infernape was deserved because its backstory)
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Did you watch a battle? That's because Paul used strategy against Ash and Drapion took down 3 of Ash's Pokemon because of it and Ash couldn't counter it as first. Infernape did it obviously because it's the strongest barring Pikachu out of DP team, so Ash could've hold on for Gliscor and Pikachu for Electivire and Drapion, since Infernape is on harder end of stick( but not really he one shotted Aggron and took one hit from Ninjask which is not effective and got poisoned). Not to mention that Pikachu and Gliscor battled previously Aggron and Ninjask.
 
RafaSceptile

RafaSceptile

Well-Known Member
CMButch said:
Did you watch a battle? That's because Paul used strategy against Ash and Drapion took down 3 of Ash's Pokemon because of it and Ash couldn't counter it as first. Infernape did it obviously because it's the strongest barring Pikachu out of DP team, so Ash could've hold on for Gliscor and Pikachu for Electivire and Drapion, since Infernape is on harder end of stick( but not really he one shotted Aggron and took one hit from Ninjask which is not effective and got poisoned). Not to mention that Pikachu and Gliscor battled previously Aggron and Ninjask.
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I watched the battle at least 10 times. And yes, I don't like when 2 Pokémon takes all the spotlight (at least Infernape deserve it) but nobody cares about a random Drapion that never see prior or after this battle, such as 4/6 of Alain's Pokémon and 3/6 Kukui's Pokémon)
 
CMButch

CMButch

Kanto is love. Kanto is life.
RafaSceptile said:
I watched the battle at least 10 times. And yes, I don't like when 2 Pokémon takes all the spotlight (at least Infernape deserve it) but nobody cares about a random Drapion that never see prior or after this battle, such as 4/6 of Alain's Pokémon and 3/6 Kukui's Pokémon)
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You said that Ash and Paul did not feel like 6 on 6 battle which is wrong.Just because competitors used strategy and beat Pokemon on *easy* that does not mean battle was not 6 on 6.
1) Gastrodon and Aggron. Paul used those 2 Pokemon to see what Pokemon Ash would use since he does not know. In his mind he thought that with 2 Pokemon he would bring at least 4 of Ash's Pokemon and he suceeded in that which means Gastr and Aggr are strong.He did that to create some strategy against 4 of those Pokemon.
2.Infernape and Electivire.Infernape beat Aggron because Pikachu helped him beforehand.Ninjask is most on Paul's fault since he did not switch and Infernape did good move.Electivire beat Pikachu and Gliscor who were tired from previous battles.
3.Drapion. Drapion beat 3 of Ash's Pokemon with again strategy. Staraptor is good on Ash's side because it would evade toxic spikes. Only problem would be Torterra but probably Ash had something on his mind to beat Drapion.Since he was smiling and confident.But Paul cointerattacked that and beat Torterra.
So in conclusion:your statement how Ash vs Paul did not feel like 6 on 6 is wrong and irrelevant.It felt like 6 on 6 and one of the best 6 on 6 fights.
 
RafaSceptile

RafaSceptile

Well-Known Member
CMButch said:
You said that Ash and Paul did not feel like 6 on 6 battle which is wrong.Just because competitors used strategy and beat Pokemon on *easy* that does not mean battle was not 6 on 6.
1) Gastrodon and Aggron. Paul used those 2 Pokemon to see what Pokemon Ash would use since he does not know. In his mind he thought that with 2 Pokemon he would bring at least 4 of Ash's Pokemon and he suceeded in that which means Gastr and Aggr are strong.He did that to create some strategy against 4 of those Pokemon.
2.Infernape and Electivire.Infernape beat Aggron because Pikachu helped him beforehand.Ninjask is most on Paul's fault since he did not switch and Infernape did good move.Electivire beat Pikachu and Gliscor who were tired from previous battles.
3.Drapion. Drapion beat 3 of Ash's Pokemon with again strategy. Staraptor is good on Ash's side because it would evade toxic spikes. Only problem would be Torterra but probably Ash had something on his mind to beat Drapion.Since he was smiling and confident.But Paul cointerattacked that and beat Torterra.
So in conclusion:your statement how Ash vs Paul did not feel like 6 on 6 is wrong and irrelevant.It felt like 6 on 6 and one of the best 6 on 6 fights.
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You don't need to purposely let your Pokémon weaken to know what your opponent is going to use. It is not something I would call "good" strategy, and in the end it cost Paul the fight.
And again, at least Infernape deserved to sweep half of Paul's Team, but nobody cares about a random Drapion, especially because it wasn't part of Ash and Paul's rivalry, which is the exact same criticism with Alain and Kukui's teams in their respective Battles.
 
CMButch

CMButch

Kanto is love. Kanto is life.
RafaSceptile said:
You don't need to purposely let your Pokémon weaken to know what your opponent is going to use. It is not something I would call "good" strategy, and in the end it cost Paul the fight.
And again, at least Infernape deserved to sweep half of Paul's Team, but nobody cares about a random Drapion, especially because it wasn't part of Ash and Paul's rivalry, which is the exact same criticism with Alain and Kukui's teams in their respective Battles.
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He didn't purposely let his Pokemon weakened, since he trained then and they made Infernape and Pikachu switch. So he obviously battled with strong team just his two Pokemon have intention to see what Ash's team is gonna be so he would strategize.So it didn't cost him anything.

Caring or not caring about Drapion is irrelevant.Drapion used strategy that put half of Ash's team down.
 
RafaSceptile

RafaSceptile

Well-Known Member
CMButch said:
He didn't purposely let his Pokemon weakened, since he trained then and they made Infernape and Pikachu switch. So he obviously battled with strong team just his two Pokemon have intention to see what his team is gonna be so he would strategize.So it didn't cost him anything.

Caring or not caring about Drapion is irrelevant.Drapion used strategy that put half of Ash's team down.
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Yes, and that is the Bad thing, even outshining Elevtivire who is supposely to be Paul's ace. It is a general problem with "[insert Pokémon] festival" like Charizard during Ash VS Gary or Drapion during Ash VS Paul
 
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