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How would you bring up the games?

Discussion in 'General Pokémon Discussion' started by Atratus, Jan 12, 2013.

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  1. Atratus

    Atratus Antimatter Trainer

    I edited the post a bit, and will ask you to remember two things in this discussion:
    1. This isn't about my own opinions. If you agree or disagree, that is greta, but please contribute your own as well.
    2. This isn't a hate thread. I love pokemon and I am a fan of all generations (4th was weaker though), I just think each of us would have done things differently because we have subjective liked and dislikes.

    I love the pokemon franchise, but it is a flawed one, as nothing as perfect. I think every one of us fans has an idea of "how I would have done it" running in the back or our minds. So, how would you bring up the pokemon game up until now? I will give my own ideas as an example:

    1. Not releasing so many pokemon in each generation. Gen 2 was the first generation to bring us new pokemon outside the original 151, and it added only 100 new ones, with every new gen adding more and more. I would make each new gen introduce around 50 new ones, not more. The world would seem more in focus to me, and only the very best of designs will make the final cut. Quality over quantity. This doesn't mean that the original 151 are better though; if the Unova pokemon were the first batch I would still think introducing all of Kanto at once is too much.

    2. Make Gen 1 claim the original 151 pokemons are the only ones in the region rather than the world. It makes things seem a bit dumb in retrospect. Even if you don't have a sequel in mind, make the possible consequences make sense. "Oh, look at all these species we never noticed before!"

    3. No trade-evolutions. None of my friends like pokemon, so a kid I could never had Gengar, Alakazam or Mechamp. In a world-building sort of way, it makes no sense. Also, I think it is especially annoying when back then the point was to "catch them all" whilst you needed external assistance to achieve that. Wi-fi has solved it, partly, but still.

    4. No crazy evolution trees and method. Pokemon are creature of nature, they should be able to evolve by themselves, or maybe if they happen to come across a stone. Let it be natural. Eevee gets a pass in my eyes because it is a concept, though.

    5. Leave old pokemon alone. If you didn't think of Magmortar back in gen 1 or 2, please leave Magmar alone. I do like the likes of Porygon-Z and Gliscor, but I think it shouldn't have been done this way.

    6. No power creep. I am not talking competitively about this one, I just don't like how older pokemon are left behind with poorer stats. You don't need such over-the-top stats to mix things up- you have abilities, you have type combinations and many more options.

    7. Balance the types. You did it with psychic because it was too strong, but other are too weak. It isn't fair that some types have very few weaknesses and are very effective against other while other have the opposite schema.

    8. Focus on the world you are creating rather than gimmicks. Instead of things like the dream world or others that are not naturally in-game-world, I would like to see more innovations in game (but not contests, because the hell with contest). Minigames, new challenges, new ideas for areas, etc. Focus on the world. This isn't to say the dream world shouldn't exist, just that the focus should stay on the in-game world.

    9. Stop making NPCs use protect / detect. They don't have a strategy in mind, so they are only postponing the inevitable in a very annoying manner. If they have Toxic and such, that's fine, but if not they are just making the battle needlessly longer.

    10. No Stealth Rock, or any other type-associated entry hazard. If your entry hazard can erase half of the pokemon's HP in an instance, something is wrong with it. Spikes and T-Spikes are fine, and more "equal" entry hazard are very welcome, but I think the subjective-typed ones are unwise.

    11. Less legendries. Legendaries make 7.24% of the pokedex. Ghost type pokemon make 4.16% and ice type make 4.78%. This is kind of absurd- even dragon or steel types are less common than legendaries. They are supposed to be special and, well, legendary, so keep them that way.

    12. No location event pokemon. You don't let everyone a chance to obtain such pokemon, so please simply don't do them. Wi-fi events are much more fair because everyone has a chance, but if a player doesn't live in the "right" country it is simply a bit upsetting.

    These are, of course, subjective ideas. I may be right or wrong, but they are still my opinions.
    So, what are yours?
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2013
  2. The Sandslasher

    The Sandslasher BAZINGA!!!

    Well, actuallt Atratus; I have another opinion. You see when I was younger I Thought pokemon was stupid. So I played Magic, Yu-Gi-Oh! and other card games while avoiding pokemon. All the card games got so complex. Now, I love pokemon and this game and system is much better set up than the other games. Yu-Gi-Oh! completely overpowered cards and now some are banned. In the end, i belive that I would like pokemon today if I hadn't thought it was amzing compared to the others. So my opinion is actually that pokemon is doing alright as it is. Hope I helped you make an accurate opinion for yourself :D
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2013
  3. meismadatyou

    meismadatyou Johto League Master

    You are seriously hating on Pokemon right now, aren't you?

    Think of the other gens as expansions, you don't want to just have a few new Pokemon to play with in a new world, do you? Imagine playing RSE with Mudkip, Treecko, Torchic and Tailow. Wouldn't be as fun, would it?

    What is this even supposed to mean?

    Again, it would be very boring if EVERY Pokemon evolved at level 16, then 32.

    If you're trying to say that genwun Pokemon don't have good stats, check again. And if you're trying to say that there aren't enough abilties and types that actually matter in a Pokemon battle, lolwut. Check again.

    Oh, I'm sorry if a bug Pokemon can't take down a fire breathing dragon.

    You are a true genwunner aren't you? Have you even played any games after Gold/Silver? Hoenn, Sinnoh and Unova are beautiful.

    Maybe you're just a bit impatient. Once again, if Heracross is facing a Fire/Flying type Pokemon, he has a double weakness there. Using Protect saves its a** untill the trainer calls it back

    There are ways to eliminate it and some Pokemon are even immune to it. It isn't unfair. It's called having a strategy.

    No, just no. Just because there are more legendaries in the Pokedex doesn't mean you're gonna find more Celebis in the world than Swinub. There are only one of each legendary in each game. Some legendaries aren't even in some games.

    In number 11, you were complaining about how legendaries aren't special enough. In this one, you're saying it's unfair. The only event-only Pokemon are legendaries. Which one is it?

    I think you should actually experience these things before you deem them as bad ideas. Also, you titled this thread "How would you bring up Pokemon," not "Let's hate on Pokemon after genwun."
  4. The Sandslasher

    The Sandslasher BAZINGA!!!

    Rage... That's all I have to say, is rage...
  5. meismadatyou

    meismadatyou Johto League Master

    I'm sorry, I got really into that response, I just don't like it when people hate on the Pokemon franchise because of meaningless reasons. >.>
  6. Tancar911

    Tancar911 V Where's Squirtle?

    if you have a problem with newer games, play old ones. they arent hard to find, go on ebay. if you think the games are too easy, hard, or complex, find another game. it's not the hardest thing, and there are thousands of options
  7. Draknir

    Draknir Team Popplio

    So, basically, aside from Gen V, releasing less than 150 new Pokemon is too much? By that logic, Gen I had too many.

    I'm sorry, but I'm really not understanding this one.

    There is one reason and one reason only for trade evolutions: To encourage players to interact with one another. If you really want to go that way, then Pokemon evolution makes no sense by world standards.

    So using a stone is natural? This, from a biological stand point, actually makes sense. Evolution is dictated by both natural growth and outside forces

    So, basically you're saying that certain Pokemon who are easily outclassed by those within their generation do not deserve a fighting chance? Again, this makes sense in the real world in that new species are discovered who are related to those already known.

    You do realize that many Pokemon from older generations can go head to head with newer ones and easily win, right?

    Have you noticed that types with fewer weaknesses don't necessarily have a large amount of strengths? Take Dragon for example. It resists four types. However, it is only super effective against itself, and nothing more.

    So, let me get this straight. The Dream World, which has vastly changed the meta game despite not allowing access to every Pokemon, is a gimmick but mini-games, the single most gimmicky thing you can put into a game, are not? I do agree that there needs to be less gimmicky stuff, though some is a necessary evil to give a change of pace.

    Basically you want a game you can easily beat with absolutely no strategy and very easy opponents?

    The only time that occurs is if you, say, have a 4x weakness to an entry hazard. Entry hazards are a means to throw your opponent's strategy off as well as defeat them.

    Basically, by your logic Gen I has too many legendaries. They make up ~4% of the Pokedex, while Ice is ~3.3%, Ghost and Dragon are ~2%, and if you count Magnemite and Magneton, Steel is ~1.3%. Dark isn't even in that Dex.

    Basically you're saying make everything available in-game without anything special to unlock them? Event Pokemon are meant to be rare and special. If everyone can get them at any point, are they special then? No.
  8. Atratus

    Atratus Antimatter Trainer

    I think you guys are getting the wrong idea. I don't hate the games or love only the old ones (I think all gens are amazing and brought many good pokemon and mechanics), I just think we all have different subjective opinions of how we personally would have liked it to be. I don't think there is anything wrong with it, nor do I think it means I hate it. Yes, I would have liked it to be different in some aspects, but I still love it and enjoy it.

    It is not a rant, just an idea thread- and not just my ideas.
  9. meismadatyou

    meismadatyou Johto League Master

    And I'm not trying to say your opinion is wrong, but I think by eliminating those aspects would ruin the franchise all together.
  10. ThunderKitty

    ThunderKitty Well-Known Member

    your ideas are stupid
  11. Flying Weasel

    Flying Weasel Well-Known Member

    I don't agree with everything your saying but I can agree on some.
    1) I'm fine with say only 50 or 60 with each new gen. There are over 600 pokemon but there are a little less then 350 if you only count full evolutions and non evolutions. In my opinion at least 50 or 60 new ones would at least help the series last longer. Not trying to say that game freak is running out of ideas, but it would help them a lot more if they didn't have to come up with 100 new pokemon for every gen, and we could have more games before the pokedex becomes overloaded.
    2) I think what he is trying to say is they never talked about different regions in the first game. For example the new evo's Nosepass has to level at Mt.Coronet to evolve but Magmortar only needs a magmarizer. Obviously magmortar didn't exist until 4th gen so magmar evolving into magmortar in the first is impossible. The point is why is magmar all of a sudden able to evolve into magmortar. They can't really do anything about it now but if they would have said that Kanto is only a region and not the whole world it would make a bit more sense. That being said that kind have would've forced them into doing a sequel even if they weren't planning on it because people would want to see the rest of the world. Still it is a silly topic and is really hard to try to explain.
    3) I have nothing against trade evolutions but it does make things worse for those who don't have any friends to play with. Imagine loving a pokemon and knowing you won't be able to get one because you have no one to trade with. We all remember that annoying girl from 4th gen that trades you a haunter and then tells you she gave it an everstone so it wouldn't evolve.
    4) I like the different evolutions because it gives you more variety. But I can understand that it should have its limits.
    5) Some are bad while some are good. Plus it raises the question of why it couldn't evolve before. Nosepass did good with this by limiting it to a certain area, but others don't make as much since. Personally I prefer Aipom over Ambipom, theres just something about the new appearance I don't like. Still it is good because normally it makes them better, its like giving the pokemon a buff. On the other hand it can be bad, if you don't like the new evolution and decide to not evolve it can put you at a disadvantage. For me it was with rhydon and rhyperior. Still it does help.
    6) This is inevitable as they keep making new ones older ones will go down in tier. Most of the new ones are pretty well averaged in my opinion. I share your concern as a gen 1 veteran but it is the survival of the fittest. In my opinion though haxorus and garchomp are a little overpowered but then again so is dragonite.
    7) I agree with the dragon thing plus most dragon types are powerful enough to OHKO things even without it being supereffective. Its not so much the types but the power of the moves. Dragon types get outrage and draco meteor and with STAB and a dragon gem they can hit pretty hard.
    8) I don't hate dream world or BW but they were lacking a few things. Like the game corner, contests, and safari zone. I would love to see more in-game events take place, especially with the addition of seasons. Maybe small tournaments that grant prizes or even a pokemon catching contest like in G/S. It would give you more reasons to revisit older towns.
    9) It is annoying but I don't really have a problem with it.
    10) Again no problem with it.
    11) They could ease down on it a little bit. We used to have maybe 6 per game and now we have like 12.
    12) They could ease down on the amount they make, maybe one unavailable per game. The only one I have is Arceus and thats because they gave him away on dream world.

    Your making some good points but your being to drastic about them.
    Edit: Never mind I didn't see your second post :)
  12. the3rdH0kage

    the3rdH0kage Turn my Swag on!

    There have multiple Wi-Fi events sense 4th gen. One of my friends has almost if not 2 boxes filled and has gotten every Wi-Fi event released in America.
  13. The Sandslasher

    The Sandslasher BAZINGA!!!

    Yeah, says the person who decided to name themself Thunderkitty. You hereby have no right to say and are banished from Asgard for eternity. Hang up your cape and give me your hammer. (Get it, instead of coat and badge)?
  14. Lordcacnea

    Lordcacnea Member

    Ignoring the fact that those evolutions in addition to new movesets and the physical/special split actually made quite a few Pokemon, particularly ones introduced in Gen II actually useful, and for other Pokemon improved their usability. Pokemon such as Togekiss, Weavile, Magnezone, Roserade, Gallade, Mamoswine, Gliscor, Electivire, etc. were in no way useless additions.

    Contests were great in RSE, DDPt ruined them sadly. Emerald brought in the excellent Battle Frontier, and I suppose HGSS had the Pokeathlon. Musicals were quite disappointing though. So they try at least.

    Particularly prevelant in B2W2 Challenge Mode, that "tactic" is not challenging, just annoying and tedious. So yes.

    Agreed. Sadly the only good Ice-type Pokemon introduced in Gen V is a legendary.
  15. Ditto B1tch

    Ditto B1tch Well-Known Member

    It's hard to imagine how someone that play Pokemon for a long time still having some ideas like this. I started reading your suggestions and predicted that people would reply negatively... And yes, I was right. Most of your suggestions makes no sense or have no logical fundaments.

    Generation 2 were too connected to Generation 1, much more than any other future Generation. That's why they didn't need to create so many Pokemons. If you played G/S/C or HG/SS you can notice that the signature of many gym leaders are Kanto native Pokemons and non from Johto (Falkner and Pidgeotto, Bugsy and Scyther, Chuck and Poliwrath, Morty and Gengar, etc). In the Generation III onwards, the previous region Pokemons still appearing, but not as much important as they were in Johto. They were in there basically to give to players more options of team partners. And quality must always be there regardless of quantity.

    They believed there were no more Pokemons until they "discovered" Johto and else. This is more about the surprise element, if they mentioned since from the start that there were more than 151 Pokemons, it shouldn't be much of a surprise. Old Pokemon fans get a lot used with 151 Pokemons, and all the genwunners are from this generation. People that were introducted to Pokemon in Generation II or III don't get much surprised with new Generations coming out.

    I'm sorry that you have no friends to trade your Pokemons, but Nintendo do that to players interact with each other. You could obtain a Pokemon by using certain cheat codes, but you'd be banned from official Nintendo contests as every cheat code leaves in the catridge a residual flash data that can be detected.

    The evolution trees you called "crazy" are so charming. What about Eevee? Don't believe they'll change it now that we're in Generation VI.

    I think they so need. As long as the new Pokemons is cool, I wouldn't be against it.

    I didn't understand very well what you meant with this. Sorry... :/

    Types are already balanced since Generation II and were never altered since. You must be talking about a specific Pokemon, then use a team partner to cover/counter its weakness.

    We have a lot of extra areas in Pokemon World to enjoy besides the battles: Contests, Battle Area, Battle Frontier, Pokeathlon, Pokemon Musical and else. Never forget that the main purpose of the Pokemon games are battles, so if you're bored of battling, then you better play another game.

    NPC's can use any move that you can. It's not fair making them unable of using a move just because you don't like it.

    So, you would like that we just have power base moves? No. Status moves makes the battle a little more interesting and force you to use your brain to think. Without the status moves a weak Pokemon would be pratically unable to win a stronger one, except if in type advantage.

    It's not an absurd as you said, but it's because that legendaries has gained a more important role in the plot of the game. That's why we have more than in the early generations.

    Event Pokemon is an interesting way to make them obtainable by a minority of players. So you couln't see Jirachi in every team because if it was found in each game, everybody would include it probably.
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2013
  16. randomspot555

    randomspot555 Well-Known Member

    Yknow, if you hate the Pokemon games so much that you basically want to change many of the core aspects (loling at introducing a patheticly low amount of new Pokemon in a new gen, or introducing ZERO new Pokemon in lieu of using Gen I only), go play something else. Clearly, Pokemon isn't working out for you. There are other games, hell, other activities out there.
  17. dragonskull

    dragonskull Dark trainer

    I think at first they didn't suspect the game would boom as it has boomed since Red & Green came out. Every games has it flaws but the overall progression the game has made isn't really out of the ordinary comparing to other franchises. I think the games is good as it is and it shouldn't be changed whatsoever.
  18. The Benmeister

    The Benmeister Master of Magnet

    Seriously people, is a guy not allowed to express a different opinion? The OP is not bashing or anything, they're just saying things they would have done differently. Your minds are very closed.

    I would also probably cut back on event Pokemon and legendaries, they are probably more abundant then I would like. But if anything I would create MORE Pokemon per generation.

    I'd also limit trade evolutions, or at least have some sort of high level Pokemon could be evolved at as an alternative.

    Something I'd work on would be more type balancing, in the sense of number of Pokemon. There's always a type or two that is neglected every generation, some only have one or two new Pokemon per generation. I'd want to include at least five of each type in my generation's Pokedex.
  19. randomspot555

    randomspot555 Well-Known Member

    This is a discussion forum where people discuss. If someone feels an OP's ideas are dumb, they should feel free to say so. And yes, stuff like using only Gen I Pokemon in a new gen is dumb.
  20. The Benmeister

    The Benmeister Master of Magnet

    Doesn't seem to be much actual discussion, just some people not contributing to the topic and just ragging on the OP. Just thought if people wanted to post they could at least be constructive to the topic rather than just telling people to get lost.
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