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How would you "fix" the Sonic franchise?

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HERLS

LOLOLOL
So everybody says Sonic is "dead". Not so, given how well his games sell (although SATBK is doing questionably), but in the eyes of many gamers, including many of you here, Sonic is "dead", a shadow of his former self. You think you could do better? Let's see.

Let's say, for discussion purposes only, YOU are the head director/designer of the next Sonic game. SEGA wants this game to push boundaries, to be fun, to be suitable for sale and, more importantly, to bring the franchise back up to the level it used to be at. You have the kind of budget that high-profile games like Super Mario Galaxy and Halo 3 get, and you have relative control of who is in your development team as long as they are within SEGA's reach.

How do you revive the franchise? No, you can't just say "let Sonic die" or "make Sonic 4". I'm talking about pushing Sonic forward and making him work in the third dimension. How would you go about it, in a realistic and feasible manner?

I would personally try to work out the kinks in the development process before tackling anything else. Problem with Sonic is, he's a runner. He runs fast. Very fast. And the faster you run, the faster you plough through a level. A Mario level would be completed by Sonic about 10x faster than Mario, and so to compensate Sonic would need 10x longer levels. For Sonic Unleashed, the dev team crafted every level by hand, polygon for polygon. That's just not at all practical for a game where you speed through every stage quickly, because they're spending too much time on areas that you spend little time in. Because of this they can't make enough raw Sonic action and are forced to compensate with slow tripe like the Werehog, the Big fishing stages, or treasure hunting stages. My idea is that since these levels are simply rushed through, SEGA need to spend a little less time hand-crafting them. My idea is for the devs to use Procedural Generation. Procedural Generation is the concept of software taking in predefined values and using them to render something. This is pretty shaky to do on the fly, but as a dev tool it is perfect for Sonic. Using the procedural generation tool CityEngine, a person successfully created a full model of Rome in a day. What if the Sonic devs used this tool? No more spending weeks creating those background cities of Unleashed, they simply have to render it quickly with Procedural Generation and then manipulate it into a Sonic stage. Using this technique it is more than viable to have a Sonic game composed almost entirely of speed and thrills. The levels themselves would have a simple, block-shaded kind of charm to them, like much of Mario Galaxy, with simple, easy-to-render, colourful textures. However, they would probably have immense trouble fitting this on a 360 or Wii disc, so PS3 exclusivity may be a possibility.

Structure-wise, my Sonic game would take all of the functional features of 3D Sonic titles and meld them into one, but still maintain originality. It would be a multi-platform (or PS3 only, if space issues arise) game running on the Sonic Unleashed Daytime Engine with a few changes to tighten the controls.

The game would take place starting from one big hub world, ala Sonic World from Sonic Jam, with missions to partake in, only much bigger to compensate for the speed Sonic has acquired since then. From this central hub, you can access the 11 main stages. Each stage has 3 acts, that play like Sonic Unleashed Day Stages. That's 3 acts for 11 zones, making for 33 "daytime" stages. A heaping helping, I'm sure you'll agree. However the fun doesn't stop there. The game squeezes every last drop of gameplay out of these stages. Once you've completed the three acts of a zone, you can play them through in various ways. You can play through them in backwards mode (start from the end, boosters are reversed, etc.), you can play in Speed mode (you die if you drop below a certain speed), and you can even play 2-player mode, in which two people race to the end of a level. You can save ghosts for each level, like in a racing game.

Like in 3D Mario games, you would have to get a certain amount of macguffins (in this case Emblems) to unlock each zone. These Emblems are obtained by completing acts, completing the extra modes for acts, performing tasks in the hub world and by fulfilling miscellanious criteria.

But don't go thinking that pure speed is all this game has to offer; every stage has its fair share of platforming sections, just like in the Adventure titles. There are also Special Stages which resemble Sonic 3D Blast's Saturn Special Stages, a complex and unique boss for each of the 15 main stages, a Chao Garden like in Sonic Adventure 1/2, and unlockable recreations of Genesis Sonic stages just to please the bitter, jaded Genesis fans.

Design-wise, it would keep character design as is, with little change, and the story would have ONLY Eggman as the antagonist. Graphically the stages are colourful and varied like those of Unleashed, but with unnatural, geometrical looking foliage (trees, grass etc.) like the old games. The game would have two or three music composers, possibly established ones, like Jun Senoue, Richard Jacques, and if possible, Japanese band Dreams Come True (composers of Sonic 1 and 2). Also, Badniks return. That's right, badniks. Not generic killbots, but unique, creative and varied robots with an animal theme, like we saw up until Sonic Adventure 2, and we've been seeing again in Rush Adventure. Focus would be on gameplay, with story only being there to give context to the action.

And that's how I'd fix Sonic.

How about you?
 
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fhqwhgads

_____________
Sonic and the Secret Rings with Sonic 1's story/level design and good controls you don't have to unlock.

Not quite as long as yours, but...
 

BCVM22

Well-Known Member
I would have the most obnoxious and whiniest members of the fanbase executed put in indefinite cryogenic stasis. After all, if no one is whining and pouting and stomping their feet about the games, then they're fixed, right?
 

HERLS

LOLOLOL
I would have the most obnoxious and whiniest members of the fanbase executed put in indefinite cryogenic stasis. After all, if no one is whining and pouting and stomping their feet about the games, then they're fixed, right?

...

I'm not really sure what the point you're trying to make is.
 

Sonic Boom

@JohanSSB4 Twitter
...

I'm not really sure what the point you're trying to make is.

I think he means that the more "faithful" fans of the Sonic franchise try to search for any one flaw of any Sonic game, and exacerbate that flaw 100-fold, and ignore the other finer points of the game. For example, Sonic Unleashed had the Werehog levels, and the fans have to bring up that aspect of the game over and over again, whereas the Daytime levels are among the most detailed and complete of the game. And in SATBK, people bring up the swordplay over and over again, and assume the the swordplay hinders Sonic's speed incredulously, which is not the case, and then they ignore the beautiful design and length of the levels in the game.

I think what Sonic Team did with the 3-D rendition of Green Hill Zone at the very end of Sonic Adventure 2 was a step in the right direction. There were multiple ways to end that level, either by going up or down, breaking the walls or scaling the mountains, whatever. That gave you the choice to run through multiple paths in 3-D, and still make it to the end, which is contrary to the Sonic levels nowadays, where there is primarily one set path that Sonic must follow. If Sonic Team decides to make 3-D copies of previous Genesis levels, I'll be fine with that alone. But making new levels that give a sense of nostalgia to the 16-bit era (perhaps including the checker-board ground, cartoony scenery, and remixes of the stage BGMs and Eggman battles) would be a step in the right direction, I think.

In short, Sonic doesn't need variety in the game as a whole (i.e Werehog, multiple characters that have the same attributes (Shadow)), what he needs is variety in the levels themselves, such as flight paths that only Tails can access, durable walls that only Knuckles can break through, etc.

Give me a game with just Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, and Eggman, and I'll be satisfied.
 

Auraninja

Eh, ragazzo!
I would put more faith in Dimps for one thing.

And react whatever way you want but I would also...
Put some effort into the new characters while still maintaining the main features of the game that the fans want.

For example, Silver has hardly been worked on. I think he needs a chance to show what hedgehog can do with speed and telekinesis.
 

Legend of Lucario

Songwriter
I think to improve the Sonic games I would, too make the levels a lot longer because as stated, Sonic is meant to be fast, so you can blow through levels like crazy. Also, I think games a lot like Sonic Adventure 2: Battle were great because you could play with everyone, and the Chao Garden was genius because I love those little things.

Also I like the solo games like Sonic and Shadow the Hedgehog. They could do some more of those with other characters maybe...
 

BlitzBlast

Busy with School
Either they stop trying to add new gameplay additions and focus on making a decent 3d Sonic game based on running (and while we're at it, fix all the glitches), or they can pull a Capcom and suddenly release a new 2d Sonic game.

Really, in a 3d platforming game the main things you need to look for are creative/fun stages, responsive and good controls, a good camera, and a lack of glitches.

The 3d Sonic games I've seen have very few of those.

Then again, the last 3d Sonic game I saw was Sonic Adventure DX.
 

CloverTheKirlia

Confidence Is Power
I agree 100% to adding the Chao Garden back to the Sonic games. I would also like Silver to have some stardom, give him a second chance yah know? Maybe even give him his own game.
 

HERLS

LOLOLOL
Sonic Adventure remake.

In fact, re manufacture Dreamcasts and re-release the old DC games.

I KNOW IM DREAMING.

Remakes would be nice, but I'm talking about a game that boots Sonic back into gear, a game that all subsequent Sonic's will strive to top. I'm talking about the Mario 64 of the Sonic franchise.

That's one of the things wrong with Sonic. To use the Mario analogy again, they're trying to make Mario Sunshine before they've made Mario 64. They're making games with all these gimmicks and what have you, but they haven't even got the basic formula right yet (in 3D, anyway).
 

Zazie

So 1991
Remakes would be nice, but I'm talking about a game that boots Sonic back into gear, a game that all subsequent Sonic's will strive to top. I'm talking about the Mario 64 of the Sonic franchise.

Sonic Adventure is the Mario 64 of the franchise. Maybe you don't remember but back then Sonic Adventure was considered to be a good game that transitioned to 3d. All sega has to do is make another game like and not have it riddled with bugs and camera issues and they will have a decent sonic game. Or alternativeley they could just make a 2d game and not have to worry about all the problems assocaited with 3d Sonic.
 

Chris

Old Coot
Also, I think games a lot like Sonic Adventure 2: Battle were great because you could play with everyone
That there's one of the main problems with Sonic games. It becomes less about Sonic the Hedgehog, and more about how many variations of Sonic they can throw in there.
 

the1stpkmnfan

Your Big Buff Bro
I haven't seen a 2D Sonic game released, since 2004 I think, so I would make another Sonic Adcance game into Sonic Advance 4. Then, you would be able to have the option of playing with one, or two characters simotaneously.
 

Zazie

So 1991
I haven't seen a 2D Sonic game released, since 2004 I think, so I would make another Sonic Adcance game into Sonic Advance 4. Then, you would be able to have the option of playing with one, or two characters simotaneously.

They released Sonic Rush and Sonic Rush Adventure for the DS both are mostly 2d. (except for boss fights.)
 

Sonic Boom

@JohanSSB4 Twitter
They released Sonic Rush and Sonic Rush Adventure for the DS both are mostly 2d. (except for boss fights.)

Those games have 2D gameplay, but with 3D graphics.

Coincidentally, those games are the most warmly-appreciated Sonic games as of late. Maybe a 2.5D Sonic game on the console would be a step in the right direction, or at least a way to keep the fans hopeful as they hopefully work on a successful 3D formula.
 

E-Hero Winged Kuriboh

Well-Known Member
I would have the most obnoxious and whiniest members of the fanbase executed put in indefinite cryogenic stasis. After all, if no one is whining and pouting and stomping their feet about the games, then they're fixed, right?
This.

Most Sonic fans will never be happy. Ever.
"Sonic needs to be fast like in the originals and less about platforming!"
*Sonic Unleashed is released*
"What IS this? Sonic is about platforming, not speed! You've got it all wrong!!"

Or

"Sonic is about SONIC! Not all the other characters! Get rid of them!!"
*Sonic Unleashed is released*
"Where the hell is Knuckles/Tails/Shadow!? We need more characters!!"

Many of the games, especially Sonic Unleashed, I feel were treated unfairly in the ratings because they were Sonic. If people weren't comparing it to its past constantly, people would enjoy the games far more.
Although i find the Werehog levels boring and tedious, I actually find the Sonic levels a lot funner then the original Sonic games. *waits to have rocks thrown at for not agreeing with the original>everything else mindset*
 

Slick

Banned
Remakes would be nice, but I'm talking about a game that boots Sonic back into gear, a game that all subsequent Sonic's will strive to top. I'm talking about the Mario 64 of the Sonic franchise.

That's one of the things wrong with Sonic. To use the Mario analogy again, they're trying to make Mario Sunshine before they've made Mario 64. They're making games with all these gimmicks and what have you, but they haven't even got the basic formula right yet (in 3D, anyway).

You dissing Sunshine?
 

Will-powered Spriter

Pokédex Complete!
I think one thing sega needs to do is stop making annoying, slow, pointless, often n ot playable characters with voices so high they make you want to swear (or in the case of marine, swears herself because she has no voice.)

Chip: What does he do, seriously? He opens doors for you and puts all the temples together for a giant punching minigame. Who would seriously not want to wring the guy's neck?

Marine: Little more than a spoilt plot device, her use of "bugger" set (at least in the english version) the age rating to 12, while her INCREDIBLY ANNOYING dialogue made anyone over 12 (or maybe 6) want to throw it at a wall. Clever marketing there Sega!

Big: We're getting back a bit here, but Big's pointless too. He fishes, loses his pet frog, and complains in the most moronic voice possible. Point please?

Sega needs to cut back on the characters, only adding ones like Blaze which are PLAYABLE and fast enough not to be a burden, without being annoying or gimicky.
 

BCVM22

Well-Known Member
You watch your mouth when you talk about Big the Cat or I am bloody feeding you to Froggy.
 
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