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How would you "fix" the Sonic franchise?

Discussion in 'Other Video Game Discussion' started by HERLS, Mar 21, 2009.

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  1. HERLS


    SATAM helped divide the fanbase. Sure, SegaSonic has inconsistencies, but honestly, it was the fact that SEGA tried as hard as possible to leave Sonic ambiguous in plot until Adventure that hurt it. By doing that, they allowed each area of the market (America, Europe, Japan, Australia, etc.) to build up their own canon. Then the internet came and panic ensued as canons started to clash, no longer isolated from one another. Had the plot been unified from the start, the timeline would have arguably been far less messy.

    If SATAM was still ongoing to this day, no doubt it would rival SegaSonic, characterwise, if not beat it. You're comparing an ancient, short-lived cartoon spin-off to the main ongoing series.

    And what do you mean by that?

    SaTam is being re-released on Blu-Ray because nostalgia is a very powerful marketing tool. There have been entire franchises (*cough*Smash Bros.*cough*) built on the nostalgia factor alone. don't mistake it for actual quality. It's like how many people consider Sonic 3D, Sonic R or the Sonic Master System titles to be great games - in reality they are pretty mediocre, but people's memories make them believe otherwise.

    And I don't believe characters, weeaboos or Shadow are the true problem. They characterise the problem, give people a face to associate with Sonic's downfall, but the problem's lie much deeper. They can include every character from every Sonic canon ever for all I care, as long as they sort out the underlying gameplay and development complications.

    Oversaturation on the character front is definately on Sonic's list of problems, but it's way down at the bottom of that list. People give the cast way too much credit for something they didn't really do.
  2. Auraninja

    Auraninja I'm ready to Smash

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the only thing that really screwed up the canon was whether Blaze and Eggman Nega came from another deminsion (Sonic Rush canon) or from the future (Sonic 06/Rivals canon).

    Also, to which characters I think are better, I think of this:
    Princess Blaze > Princess Sally Acorn

    Just my opinion anyways.
  3. SBaby

    SBaby Dungeon Master

    No, that's pretty fair. I only like Sally because she's one of the characters I grew up with. And that's probably part of the reason too, because the fanbase is so diverse. You've got younger gamers who've never played the original games and you've got older fans that did.
  4. Cobalt_Latios

    Cobalt_Latios Well-Known Member

    Meh, I've watched the SatAm cartoon and have played Sonic Rush and I'd have to agree with you.

    Though, I think the fact that Blaze was actually "thought out" sort of helped measures.

    However, I'd prefer to go with the Sonic Rush canon, just because it makes more sense (imo anyways). Haven't played S06, but with the many issues (both gameplay and storyline) I'm not really sure just how much credit you can really give it.

    HERLs, you've got some damn good points there. Nostalgia is one heck of a defining factor for some things, but it seems it can also be a barrier of sorts.

  5. P-fan

    P-fan Storm Trainer

    Here how I would fix it it.

    Have it focuse on one thing speed, this was the main problem with most 3D Sonic compare to 3D Mario

    use the 3D mix with 2d like they did with Sonic unleash, to come up a with a good plot. as the other characters, let to them had a some roles in the game.
  6. Archangel

    Archangel Guest

    I would say HD 2D graphics (like KOF XII?) with emphasis on speed and less on puzzles. And also, make the plot more philosophical just for teh lulz.
  7. Skiks


    If only sega would concentrate on perfecting one idea at a time. They seem to try to change up the formula each year making it hard for them to get a grip on how 3D sonic should be.
  8. SBaby

    SBaby Dungeon Master

    I shouldn't need to really reply to this, because you basically just contradicted yourself not even one sentence after you mentioned SatAM, and you also managed to prove my point at the same time (that it wasn't SatAM, but SEGA that divided the fanbase. But I'll humor you with this little blurb.

    SatAM couldn't have divided the fanbase of the series because there wasn't anything to divide the fanbase on in 91. SatAM had the basics intact. Sonic was there, he was fast, and he had the cool blue attitude. The only thing anyone could really hold against the series at the time, and I don't think the mainstream Sonic fans really cared about it, was the fact that Tails didn't have a very big role in the series.

    Now yes, if they did make a SatAM-based game in this day and age (not that they ever would), the fanbase might be divided on it to some degree. But the fanbase would be divided REGARDLESS of what game they made, because it's to the point where fans are more polarized than the graphic novel fans who went to see Watchmen. Nothing is going to make EVERYONE happy.

    I just think that making a SatAM-like game with a more serious plot and sticking with it would be easier than trying to salvage the royal mess of a universe that is Sega Sonic.
  9. HERLS


    I know it was SEGA's fault originally that the canon is screwed, but what I was getting at is that after SEGA opened the floodgates, it was the legions of stories which didn't adhere to the source material (e.g. SATAM, AOSTH, Archie) that confused matters further. It makes much more sense to try to tie up the loose ends in the SEGA canon than just give up a bring back an ancient, nostalgia-soaked ultra-Americanised incarnation of the franchise that hasn't been relevant since the 90s. Why alienate legions and legions of new fans just for the sake of a few remaining SATAM enthusiasts?

    Don't get me wrong, I'm no new-school fan, and I have fond memories of AOSTH, SATAM and even Underground (shoot me now) but they don't have a place in canon and never will.
  10. Chagen46

    Chagen46 Hell Crasher

    It doesn't need fixing. It's fine as is. Sonic Heroes was alright, Shadow was one the most awesome games I have played in my life, Sonic 06' was barely okay but still enjoyable, and Unleashed was pure awesome.

    Look: You f**ktards ***** about every new sonic game just because you want one like the originals; You compare every new sonic game to Sonic 1-3, instead of enjoying these new ones for what they are.

    While you sit there, whining your asses off about a problem that doesn't even exist, I'll enjoy the latest sonic games.

    -Chagen46, jacking out.
  11. Mr. Mudkip

    Mr. Mudkip Banned

    I contemplated suicide.
  12. NPC

    NPC sleep researcher

    Considering that Chagen46 is a Tyranitar, a Ninetales and an Absol (which we all know are the coolest and edgiest Pokémon), is located wherever he can enjoy sexual intercourse with appealing females, and signs off at the end of his posts, I'd say his opinion is simply too deep for us.
  13. SBaby

    SBaby Dungeon Master

    SEGA didn't really open the floodgates until AFTER SatAM (back then there wasn't anything else to open floodgates for). Actually, if you ask me, it was probably more around the time of Sonic Heroes that things really got bad. That's when the mainstream fanbase became polarized. They really just needed that extra push.

    Also, just to inform anyone who doesn't know, when I say SatAM, I don't mean the Archie Comic series that butchered half the SatAM characters and never really went anywhere with most of them. I mean the actual cartoon that was around close to the same time that the Archie Sonic Comic got started.

    And yes, I know SatAM wasn't known by a large amount of people compared to the games (at least not back then anyway). That's why it couldn't have possibly divided the fanbase. But as I said, the fans are so divided that anything SEGA does is going to divide them further. So just use a more serious storyline like SatAM's. It doesn't have to be SatAM. It could be something about Eggman taking over 90 percent of the world. It could be anything. It could have Shadow as the main villain. Or maybe they do an X-Men type game where humans are hunting Sonic and his friends. But the important thing is to find something and stick with it.
  14. HERLS


    If the cliffhanger of Chronicles is anything to go by, we'll probably have ourselves that darker game you're looking for. Hell, wasn't there SWATbots in Chronicles? That's what I heard, anyway.
  15. Manaphy Mare

    Manaphy Mare 1000 Words

    I would probably do a new spin on the sonic games. Usually Sonic is the main/sole playable character. In my hypothetical game, however, he would not necessarily be a playable character. The story line would be similar, to an extent, to Super Princess Peach with gameplay elements that are reminiscent of Sonic Adventure 1/2. The basic plot would be Eggman has kidnapped Sonic and several of his friends (Tails, Knuckles, and Shadow) and now several other characters must save them. The first playable character would, obviously, be Amy Rose with Cream The Rabbit unlocked soon after. The full list of playable characters would be: Amy Rose, Cream the Rabbit, Rouge the Bat (unlocked in a way similar to how you unlock Knuckles in SA1 (after fighting her as a boss with Amy)), and either Shade or Tikal the Echidna. The final level would be, by Sonic's standards, revolutionary; you could pick your Super form. What I mean is rather than only being able to play as one character, Super Amy in this case, you would have the option of using any of the playable characters, so you could use a Super Rouge or Super Shade/Tikal instead of Supper Amy. I know Sonic Team has never truly delved into this concept, but I feel it would be worth a try.

    One other possibility is to have a game focussed on Blaze and Marine foiling a plot by Eggman Nega. It would follow the same plot style as the usual Sonic game and have few deviations.
  16. bobjr

    bobjr It's Fusion, I don't have to expalin it. Staff Member Moderator

    But that would require Sonic Team to try something new and original, and we all know how that ends up.
  17. jellsprout

    jellsprout Well-Known Member

    Yes, because we all know that Super Princess Peach, Luigi's Mansion and even ShTH were epic win.

    The only spin-off series/games that actually were succesfull are the Mario, Wario and Yoshi series.
  18. NPC

    NPC sleep researcher

    I don't know what you're referring to by "ShTH", but Super Princess Peach and Luigi's Mansion were fine games.
  19. SBaby

    SBaby Dungeon Master

    You're partially right. But in Chronicles they used the Archie version of the SWAT-Bots, presumably because SEGA didn't want to use anything that was around before they took full control of everything. Although I am surprised that the president of BioWare had as much flexibility as he did in that game. That's uncharacteristic for SEGA. I wouldn't be surprised if SEGA took full control over the storyline of the next game, given how successful it was.

    As I said, Chronicles was a good game though, only dropping the ball when it came to battles. Unfortunately, battles are no less than half of the average RPG (given how many you have to actually fight in most RPGs, Chronicles included), so that's a big deal. The worst thing a game designer can do is turn the battle system of an RPG into a timing game. Remember all those stupid timing games they made you play in Metal Gear where you had to hit buttons to a beat or at the right time (you know, the ones that everyone hated)? Well, the battle system of Chronicles IS that timing game.

    SpoonyOne did a review of a Power Rangers game awhile back that uses timing games (and nearly as often as they're used in Chronicles), and I think he said it best when he said, 'I HATE timing games!'. So if there is one thing that BioWare and SEGA should definitely address in any Chronicles sequels, it's that.
    Last edited: May 14, 2009
  20. Manaphy Mare

    Manaphy Mare 1000 Words

    He means Shadow the Hedgehog, it had a decent plot, but the gameplay could have been much better.
    I agree. Nintendo knew that they should give other characters the limelight every now and then. If Sonic Team realized this, the SOnic franchise would be much better.
    Last edited: May 15, 2009
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