Romaíos
Active Member
Yeah, his league W is the series' saving grace.
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How would you rank all of the shows leagues (gens 1-7) in terms of "prestige"?
- Thread starter TheCrazyMaster
- Start date
SerGoldenhandtheJust
Deluded Dreamer
The first point makes zero sense lmao, Charles Goodshow didnt even appear for the Unova or Kalos league so they must be less prestigious as well then. Ofc there isnt a champion, its the FIRST league
For the second point thats literally you pushing your headcanon. It was the first league so of course it would have different things such as no entry requirements. The narrative and literal anipoke sources treat it as a league like any other, it being less prestigious or not as important is purely fan made up headcanons
I love how you include the pikashunium Z but no six on six battles as if kukui doesnt count, cherrypicking to fix your bias
Giving him super strong mythicals? And? He had meltan for a while and it evolved like it does in the game and didnt contribute to him winning, it played the least part in his victory
Last minute evolutions played no part lmao, Incineroar happened after Ash won and Naganadel did nothing much in his overall victory
Unqualified referees and judges? Said by who? Just because Nanu made a mistake? As if qualified people dont do that, again pulling BS out of nowhere and treating it as canon
Yes he did struggle, and he deserved to win owing through his entire journey in alola but nevermind that
Idk why peeps wanted to reignite the same discussion and bump this thread, its tiring. Acting as if their headcanons of alola being a lesser league is fact when the narrative and anipoke official sources have always treated it as the same. Just because its the first league and therefore its own different rules doesnt mean it isnt important at all but whatever, and kukui is part of the league arc so not counting him seems petty to me but whatever.
Morax
King of heroes
It doesn't because that was an exhibition match with no stakes whatsoever. It's a part of the league arc though, i won't deny that. However that doesn't make it any less "plot convenient". Ash had already won the league trophy and the outcome of the exhibition match would have changed nothing. It was basically inconsequential to ash's career.
It manhandled silvally, that's a pretty good feat for someone who evolved yesterday.
Just the fact that ash gets a fully evolved naganadel out of nowhere is hilariously convenient.
Lmao @people defending this crap.
We haven't seen referees from johto, hoenn, sinnoh, unova and kalos make that mistake EVER. Nanu is definitely less qualified for that job and makes alola seem less professional at a glance.
When? He breezed through the entire league(including the kukui 4 parter).
Romaíos
Active Member
Kukui battle was non-bearing. Win or lose, he already snagged the plum.
SerGoldenhandtheJust
Deluded Dreamer
Melmetal didn't manhandle Silvally at all lmao, it landed a few hits but it got owned until Pikachu finished off Silvally. It isn't something that mattered majorly for ash's victory at all
Greninja was more op then that by a huge margin
If you don't wanna count Kukui then why are you even talking about Nagandel here lol. I don't think people defend it evolving offscreen, that's bs agreed but it didn't help ash win against Kukui aka it wasn't an OP device ash easily got to win against his opponents
Just because someone makes a mistake doesn't mean they are unqualified lmao, there's no in universe statement saying they are unqualified, esp as kahunas are prestigious trainers in Alola
The only non struggle ash didn't have is against faba, he struggled against others even if he won. That's like saying ash didn't struggle against sawyer at all or against Alain before MCX
In fairness a lot of those stipulations benefitted other competitors as well. No 6v6 matches makes it a case of tactical choice for either opponent, Mallow, Gladion and Kukui also had mythical/legendary participants that won them at least one match, EVERYONE had a freaking Z Move, the unobservant referees nearly screwed HIM over, and everyone was undergoing a 'crash course' of boosts as build up to the league anyway. I'm willing to call Gladion the Alain/Tobias equivalent, just not to ridiculous 'deus ex machina' levels (if his first opponents hadn't been Lillie and James he likely would have sold as a big threat, especially given how intense his Kiawe match was).
I agree the Alola league could have been more competitive, but at the same time they seemed to be careful not to outright manipulate the rules in Ash's favour. There were loads of rookie opponents like Mallow and Lillie, but he never faced off against them for example, and while Faba was a joke win, it was down to his own arrogance and not taking note of Meltan's metal eating niche (Faba had previously curbstomped Ash in the right circumstance). Even for all the complaints about the Hau match, it wasn't effortless, just a chaotic win due to Rowlet's quirks.
Melmetal was a quick trump card, but even then only evened the odds against fellow 'olympus mon' Silvally so it was mainly down to experience and strategy (which Silvally ultimately won through, though was weakened enough for Pikachu to defeat the same way). Torracat only evolved AFTER winning his matches. Naganadel I'll agree was kinda a hand out (pretty much everyone agress he should have done more as Poipole), but at least they waited until after the league for him.
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Dragonsoldier77
Bittersweet Satisfaction
Come on now, that’s just such a stretch. Especially the tradition and history, when it’s literally the first league. Alola has it’s own history and tradition that kukui tried to integrate to the league to be more accepted by the people, doesn’t mean history of alola becomes the history of the league.
All the other leagues have established systems and that infrastructure to support it just to enter. Various gyms had to be set up and managed across the region, with the gym leaders themselves being shown to have a degree of authority and respect. The location for the league itself have all been bigger and more complex than the simple one in alola. There’s a clear different level of investment towards the league in other regions.
Just because all of them are ‘leagues’ doesn’t mean it suddenly have the same reputation and prestige. Even irl nobody would say the us major league soccer have the same kind of prestige as the english premier league, just because they’re both the highest league in the respective countries. Nobody has even been shown to give a damn that ash is ‘champion’ compared to the champions and E4 of the other regions who we see people make a big deal of.
It’s not even a bad thing that the alola league has less prestige and reputation. It’s just the natural course of things for any kind of new competition. Even in alola itself competitive battling isn’t really a thing. For then battling is more ritual than sport. It’ll take a while before it’ll have the same kind of reputation of the leagues of the other regions.
Morax
King of heroes
Literally nobody had a full team so that ash won't be at a disadvantage. Once again, the plot favouring ash.
Rivals/opponents/villains are allowed to have all kinds of asspulls because they are ultimately obstacles to be overcome by the protagonist. It's when you give the protagonist special snowflake powers that the plot feels contrived.
When tournaments are concerned, the protagonist is supposed to be the underdog so that when he emerges victorious it feels "earned". Not only did alola (and kalos) turn that upside down, they gave ash all kinds of tools that would put him at an advantage over his opponents and that's my major complaint with the way ash is written post-BW. I know ash has always been the chosen one, but never to this extent.
cricketlaxwolvesbandy
Summoning...
I’d argue against that.
AuraChannelerChris
Easygoing Luxray.
Don't forget the fact the league allows criminals everyone knows to participate, and I don't mean TRio.
That wasn't a league battle. Hell, it was sort of an *** pull that got longer the moment Naganadel came back and Kukui magically conjured a full team for the sake of league hype YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!
Red and Blue
Well-Known Member
The only match where Ash didn't struggle was with Faba. He still had a difficult time against his other four opponents
Xuxuba
Well-Known Member
Sinnoh > Kalos > Johto > Unova/Hoenn/ Kanto/Alola
That's in terms of prestige cuz i certainly didn't like Tobias' character appearing out of nowhere with a random Darkrai (tho i don't care much about Ash losing).
Sinnoh probably had the best trainers overall, especially at coming up with strategies, like Paul and Conway. In terms of power, it's hard to beat Tobias. The gym leaders were strong so qualifying was hard.
Qualifying for Kalos League is also a feat, as it had very strong gym leaders, which Ash struggled a lot. There were lots of mega evolution users. Alain had the most OP Mega Charizard to ever exist (probably the only character who could stand against Tobias) and Sawyer was great at strategies and his Mega Sceptile was almost on par with Ash-Greninja. Tierno wasn't bad either, his battling style even inspired Ash, tho he didn't receive as much focus as the other rivals. The only one bringing down the ranking was Trevor, but to be fair, he stood against Alain right on the first round, so there wasn't much time for him to shine anyway.
Can't say i remember much of Johto, but i do remember the gym leaders being certainly harder than OS and the Blaziken's trainer being very powerful. It also had Gary, which was a great trainer overall.
Hoenn didn't exactly have League rivals that stood out to me (nor gym leaders either).
Kanto had the easiest gym leader battles (can we even call them battles if they hand badges to anyone?). Gary was good but at that point he wasn't as strong as he was on the Johto League and Richie was just a copy of OS Ash (which was far from being his strongest version) but with all 6 pokémon obeying him.
Unova had
Alola would probably be higher if Kukui was part of the competition and not just some comemorative battle. But the League was limited to small battles that didn't show the potential of the trainer's full team and it had characters like Lillie and Mallow on the top 16 even though they barely ever fought. Even TR got to go far and it is not like they were early SM TR which could actually put a up a bit of a fight, at that point they already reversed to their old incompetent versions... Pretty much the only threat there was Guzma which was known for always getting second place on everything he participated and Gladion, which is the type of rival present in nearly every League that Ash always struggles first but beats on the League at the end. The lack of requirements also brings down the ranking.
That's in terms of prestige cuz i certainly didn't like Tobias' character appearing out of nowhere with a random Darkrai (tho i don't care much about Ash losing).
Sinnoh probably had the best trainers overall, especially at coming up with strategies, like Paul and Conway. In terms of power, it's hard to beat Tobias. The gym leaders were strong so qualifying was hard.
Qualifying for Kalos League is also a feat, as it had very strong gym leaders, which Ash struggled a lot. There were lots of mega evolution users. Alain had the most OP Mega Charizard to ever exist (probably the only character who could stand against Tobias) and Sawyer was great at strategies and his Mega Sceptile was almost on par with Ash-Greninja. Tierno wasn't bad either, his battling style even inspired Ash, tho he didn't receive as much focus as the other rivals. The only one bringing down the ranking was Trevor, but to be fair, he stood against Alain right on the first round, so there wasn't much time for him to shine anyway.
Can't say i remember much of Johto, but i do remember the gym leaders being certainly harder than OS and the Blaziken's trainer being very powerful. It also had Gary, which was a great trainer overall.
Hoenn didn't exactly have League rivals that stood out to me (nor gym leaders either).
Kanto had the easiest gym leader battles (can we even call them battles if they hand badges to anyone?). Gary was good but at that point he wasn't as strong as he was on the Johto League and Richie was just a copy of OS Ash (which was far from being his strongest version) but with all 6 pokémon obeying him.
Unova had
Alola would probably be higher if Kukui was part of the competition and not just some comemorative battle. But the League was limited to small battles that didn't show the potential of the trainer's full team and it had characters like Lillie and Mallow on the top 16 even though they barely ever fought. Even TR got to go far and it is not like they were early SM TR which could actually put a up a bit of a fight, at that point they already reversed to their old incompetent versions... Pretty much the only threat there was Guzma which was known for always getting second place on everything he participated and Gladion, which is the type of rival present in nearly every League that Ash always struggles first but beats on the League at the end. The lack of requirements also brings down the ranking.
Ragnarok4
2024
Kanto and Johto League were mentioned in BF arc, Kanto League was mentioned in the Pokémon Johto League, Professor Oak said he watched the Unova League on TV
I also remember Illima, he participated in the Kalos League and they respected him for that, that is, like the other leagues, has a lot of reputation.
I think Alola should be striking because Z-Movs and the Island Challenge , not because of its league
SerGoldenhandtheJust
Deluded Dreamer
The reason they were allowed to participate was so Kukui didn't seem a hypocrite for his earlier statements and he wanted to prove guzma wrong
Also like do you purposely do not read stuff or?.... That comment of mine was in reference to him saying Kukui doesn't count but then including pikashunium Z in favour of it being easy for ash to win for some reason
Like literally none of these mattered lol, ash won on his own accord and skills and not coz of plot armour and bs asspulls
No matter your headcanons the Alola league in narrative and by official sources is the same as any other league in term of importance and prestige, even if it was different (due to it being the first league also may I add)
Stop pushing your headcanons as actual facts when nothing of the sort was ever stated by the anime or its team
I'm all for protagonists NOT being plot armoured with loads of 'special' resources, but it feels more moot when EVERYONE gets access to them. It's not like AshGreninja where Ash and ONLY Ash had the synchronisation power, again EVERYONE had Z Moves, and Mallow and a few rivals had unique Pokemon. I don't think the protagonist should have the best resources by a ridiculous margin, but they don't need the worst to make their victories feel earned either. A mythical vs legendary trainer battle was actually kinda cool to see. We rarely see that kind of power at even playing floor.
At the end of the day, Ash did feel a bit of a bar above everyone, but it felt more because he had legitimately trained for six regions and even among his Alola team, we saw him tutoring them new moves and skill boosts by himself plenty of times, compared to early series, where nearly all boosts were through 'the power of really really wanting it'. There was definitely some happenstance but I think it was indiscriminate enough in that regard that Ash's upper hand didn't feel 'unfair'.
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Ragnarok4
2024
You should calm down a bit, it seems that when someone mentions low points about Alola, you get upset. This is a thread about discussions, if it seems exhausting, you can withdraw from here
On the other hand, I could agree that my first point does not make much sense, but I remain firm in my second point, as many said here, the lack of structure and rigor, Just being the first league and not having a champion even after Ash wins and the lack of 6v6 or 3v3 matches makes me think that it is the least prestigious.
Everyone keep in mind that this does not mean that it is the easiest
CMButch
Kanto is love. Kanto is life.
IIRC in DP Reggie or Paul have said that Paul participated in Kanto, Johto, Hoenn leagues.
Kalos league was mentioned by Ilima too.
Dragonsoldier77
Bittersweet Satisfaction
Eh it doesn’t really have to do with the prestige topic, but i think XY and SM are pretty equal for that. Ash-greninja was really just a mega by another name, and the league was filled with megas. While it has the shared senses, it balances out by both having advantage and disadvantages. Melmetal is probably the only thing that might tip it to SM a bit for me because of it’s sheer power, but it’s probably the least trained out of ash’s league pokemons anyways.
SerGoldenhandtheJust
Deluded Dreamer
I am calm lol, written words don't really do well with giving off the vibe I usually mean
It's the fact that it's the same arguments all over again starting again esp since the topic of this thread is disingenuous considering there hasn't really been a case of prestige or one league being superior over the other in canonical terms, so people pretending Alola for a fact is less prestigious and that ash just won due to plot bs when literally every league has that and he didn't struggle seems off to me, it isn't to do with the fact that Alola is being criticized, but the way people are going about it.
The thing I don't get is that yes it has a different format (so did the johto league) but being the first iteration of a tournament doesnt mean it isn't important? Like in general for tournaments future iterations always have changing rules and structure at times that doesn't mean one iteration is superior over the other. And I don't get what you mean by the Alola league not having structure..... A whole stadium is constructed on an island purposely used just for this league, Aether foundation the richest organisation in Alola is funding and sponsoring it, island kahunas, prestigious trainers of the alolan culture preside over it as judges and referees, it offers a chance to battle with the strongest trainer in Alola, the masked royal, the island has shops and whole markets set up for people to purchase merchandise and all, it has a big audience and a stadium, it's being broadcasted to as we saw in the episode where Gladion gets zoroak, being promoted throughout the region as a big affair, attracting the attention of the island deities too. How does it lack then as not a proper event? It has different rules yes, since it's the first league and Alola doesn't have much battling it's open for the general public to get interest in it and has a battle royale to weed out the weak trainers and slowly and steadily only the strongest Rose to the top, with the finalists being the only ones who had completed the island challenge. Yes it does have a champion, Ash as the FIRST champion, and even then there is a battle with Kukui, the defacto champion, just like in the games. Yes there isn't any elite four (coz it's the first league, this probably holds true for any other first league of any region) and heck galar league doesn't have an elite four, is it less prestigious? I can understand not liking there being no 6v6 in the finals (although it was done to showcase everything in the league and all the battles and we eventually got 4 episodes for an amazing 6v6 battle, same amount of episodes we get for other series 6v6 battles) or not liking there isn't entry requirements but it doesn't make sense that it makes it less important then the other leagues, and as per canon it is in the same footing as any other league anyway
PokemonBattleFanatic-
Hardcore Paul Fan
Yeah Paul mentioned it in episode Top Down Training,in early AG Max said he saw Ash compete in the Johto League on TV.