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I’m just not so sure about how I feel about the OS anymore

Kintaro

Banned
In many ways Kanto feels like it's own self-contained series separated from the rest of the anime, (even Orange Islands and Johto), because it was just intended to be a one and done thing. A lot of casual fans who never watched much of the anime after the early seasons largely just think of Kanto, even if they watched parts of Johto they probably don't even remember most of it. That's why there's not much nostalgia for Bayleef/Cyndaquil/Totodile, etc. as Ash's original Kanto team, you virtually never see that same type of nostalgia extended to the Johto segment.

I remember Ash leaving Charizard in the valley was a breaking point in 2001 for a lot of original fans for a few reasons:

1. Back then we had no idea if Charizard would come back, Charizard seemed like he was released similar to Pidgeot. Keep in mind back then most fans also weren't on the internet and didn't look up new episodes, so back then people assumed Charizard would be gone for good.

2. People simply assumed Charizard would remain on Ash's team forever. Like back then there was no indication Ash would constantly swap out old pokemon for new ones.

3. The initial fad of pokemon largely died up after the first year of Johto, hence many kids generally losing interest


Obviously looking back at this now, none of this matters anymore. But if you go back to the context of 2001 before we knew the anime would go on for 20+ years, it had a big impact. Probably the same people who tried to make a big deal out of Misty leaving felt the same, even though as said looking back on it now 16 years later, it made no difference.
 

Jeal

Well-Known Member
In many ways Kanto feels like it's own self-contained series separated from the rest of the anime, (even Orange Islands and Johto), because it was just intended to be a one and done thing. A lot of casual fans who never watched much of the anime after the early seasons largely just think of Kanto, even if they watched parts of Johto they probably don't even remember most of it. That's why there's not much nostalgia for Bayleef/Cyndaquil/Totodile, etc. as Ash's original Kanto team, you virtually never see that same type of nostalgia extended to the Johto segment.
I did not watch much of Johto (in fact, except for Kanto, DP and XY, I did not watch much of Pokémon), but in my opinion, Johto was boring. Boring battles, boring characters, bland pokémon, Kanto's comedy was gone, lack of plot.
 

Kintaro

Banned
I did not watch much of Johto (in fact, except for Kanto, DP and XY, I did not watch much of Pokémon), but in my opinion, Johto was boring. Boring battles, boring characters, bland pokémon, Kanto's comedy was gone, lack of plot.

Yeah but I'm referring to the people who actually did watch most of it. The Johto team, as much as I liked Bayleaf individually, doesn't really have that lasting nostalgic element the other teams have. That and when people think of Misty they think of her huge tempered self in Kanto or how Ash and the trio always bickered together...whereas in Johto there's very little to none of that.

I do think the very beginning and the tail-end of Johto have a lot of good eps, but the middle is kind of a mess besides the good Team Rocket centered episode or the occasional stand out like that Brock/Temacu episode.
 

Redstar45

The Anime/Special's canon know it all.
Yeah but I'm referring to the people who actually did watch most of it. The Johto team, as much as I liked Bayleaf individually, doesn't really have that lasting nostalgic element the other teams have. That and when people think of Misty they think of her huge tempered self in Kanto or how Ash and the trio always bickered together...whereas in Johto there's very little to none of that.

I do think the very beginning and the tail-end of Johto have a lot of good eps, but the middle is kind of a mess besides the good Team Rocket centered episode or the occasional stand out like that Brock/Temacu episode.
it is weird that i actually like that Kasumi and Satoshi is not bickering that much?
 

Jeal

Well-Known Member
Yeah but I'm referring to the people who actually did watch most of it. The Johto team, as much as I liked Bayleaf individually, doesn't really have that lasting nostalgic element the other teams have. That and when people think of Misty they think of her huge tempered self in Kanto or how Ash and the trio always bickered together...whereas in Johto there's very little to none of that.

I do think the very beginning and the tail-end of Johto have a lot of good eps, but the middle is kind of a mess besides the good Team Rocket centered episode or the occasional stand out like that Brock/Temacu episode.
Johto's team was weak and their personality was very bland. Misty and Brock became background characters too.
 

Kintaro

Banned
it is weird that i actually like that Kasumi and Satoshi is not bickering that much?

It depends, Ash/Misty's dynamic was based on that, you take it away and their dynamic as seen in Johto wasn't that interesting. I think in SM they made their dynamic better even though Misty's temper in SM is completely gone now.
 

Redstar45

The Anime/Special's canon know it all.
Well i do Think that ag-bf did great job to show them as friends
 

laiken

Member
In many ways Kanto feels like it's own self-contained series separated from the rest of the anime, (even Orange Islands and Johto), because it was just intended to be a one and done thing. A lot of casual fans who never watched much of the anime after the early seasons largely just think of Kanto, even if they watched parts of Johto they probably don't even remember most of it. That's why there's not much nostalgia for Bayleef/Cyndaquil/Totodile, etc. as Ash's original Kanto team, you virtually never see that same type of nostalgia extended to the Johto segment.

I remember Ash leaving Charizard in the valley was a breaking point in 2001 for a lot of original fans for a few reasons:

1. Back then we had no idea if Charizard would come back, Charizard seemed like he was released similar to Pidgeot. Keep in mind back then most fans also weren't on the internet and didn't look up new episodes, so back then people assumed Charizard would be gone for good.

2. People simply assumed Charizard would remain on Ash's team forever. Like back then there was no indication Ash would constantly swap out old pokemon for new ones.

3. The initial fad of pokemon largely died up after the first year of Johto, hence many kids generally losing interest


Obviously looking back at this now, none of this matters anymore. But if you go back to the context of 2001 before we knew the anime would go on for 20+ years, it had a big impact. Probably the same people who tried to make a big deal out of Misty leaving felt the same, even though as said looking back on it now 16 years later, it made no difference.

I agreed. In my country popularity for pokemon was also huge. I remember how in the first episode of Johto. People (mostly children, I was 8-9 years old myself) they complained that it was possible for Ash to get rid of his original starters. Or that suddenly in the first season they said that there are 151 pokemon and then suddenly reach another 100 add in Johto. For children, it was a huge confusion. Then many people did not even know (especially in my country) that pokemons are based on the game. Yes, it really was :D. it was a great confusion, today there are other times and everyone knows that every few years GF releases the next generation of creatures and that is now normal for all.

Back to the Topic.

I think for me OS (I mean OS and OI) is the best anime season. OS had unique humor, Ash and Misty (for me they were like Goku and Bulma / Chichi or Joh and Anna of Shaman King). There were not a lot of fillers like in AG DP BW or XYZ , okey a good filler is not bad. But the formula "is some trainer / pokemon who needs help ....." was exhausted for me by Johto and the same in later generations. By arguing Ash and Misty or their fighting, it did not seem as childish as today, that almost everyone is super nice to everyone. OS was something news in 1997 and beginner Ash was great because we as viewers, could easily get to him because we were also beginners(Pokemons were something new and everyone who started adventures did not know the rules of how types, attacks, items etc.).


I think that Johnto's popularity has been influenced by Anime's popularity.
The creators had no idea that it would live more than 20 years. So they were not prepared and they hurried their time so we got episodes that were often copies of earlier ones. I remember that to the end of Johto the episodes were the most about slowpokes (episodes about them were really a lot)
I dont understand why Misty dont won Whirl cup. That was great point to give Misty something for the scenario. In OS and OI its character and role was phenomenal. Okey She won a contest of beauty and fishing and some in MO5 but I think that something is missing. And it's a pity that they decided to throw her out right after Johto.
They did the same with Brock although I have recently seen all the episodes from OS to AG,
Brock did the least of all. It was stupid that they tried to extend the anime to last until the 3rd generation. They could just do more competitions about pokemon breeding or their feeding and care (in a broth brock could participate and make 2-3 episodes of the thread duplicate the scheme "help the needy") But no xd! Writers only keep Brock for gag with crush in others pokegirls. That was fun but by OS to BW it was already boring. If they left Brock for the gags to lengthen their time on the air, they might as well have left Misty who bothered him.
that it would be that I expressed myself clearly. I like Johto but I think that the creators did not manage as much as they could. I know that they chased their time, they had to start referring to the series of games with this season. And that could cause problems. But when I read the blog Shudo who said something like, that he was not able to develop the character of Misty, I do not really understand him. The same with Brock. It was enough to give a few competitions and some events on which they could prove themselves and it would be okay. Same with episodes as lugia larvitar, red gyarados. it was cool but why so late? I think that if it was not for such a large mass of fillers, Johto would be one of the better seasons of this series. A cool league in which Ash did not only make up for 6 pokemons and defeated his rival Gary.

Later in the AG there was a Pokemon Coordinator, an interesting goal, but this was not what the writers invented. This introduced Game Freak. And again, copies of episodes and formulas from previously known episodes began.

Personally, I think people can't compare OS to newer seasons. It was a completely different era and other anime that was created for a different purpose than the present ones. The anime was supposed to have a beginning and the end now we know how it looks. This is to be a never-ending story and the future writers are going easy.
Everything was drawn by hand which lasted longer. The same fights today make fighting animation is much simpler even with their current budget than it was 1997-2001. after the rule, the standards have risen not for the fact that they are better only because technology allowed them (or GF added a pokemon coordinator to the game, which made it easier for the creators to take care of the new heroines).


Sory for my bad english xd
 
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Redstar45

The Anime/Special's canon know it all.
I agreed. In my country popularity for pokemon was also huge. I remember how in the first episode of Johto. People (mostly children, I was 8-9 years old myself) they complained that it was possible for Ash to get rid of his original starters. Or that suddenly in the first season they said that there are 151 pokemon and then suddenly reach another 100 add in Johto. For children, it was a huge confusion. Then many people did not even know (especially in my country) that pokemons are based on the game. Yes, it really was :D. it was a great confusion, today there are other times and everyone knows that every few years GF releases the next generation of creatures and that is now normal for all.

Back to the Topic.

I think for me OS (I mean OS and OI) is the best anime season. OS had unique humor, Ash and Misty (for me they were like Goku and Bulma / Chichi or Joh and Anna of Shaman King). There were not a lot of fillers like in AG DP BW or XYZ , okey a good filler is not bad. But the formula "is some trainer / pokemon who needs help ....." was exhausted for me by Johto and the same in later generations. By arguing Ash and Misty or their fighting, it did not seem as childish as today, that almost everyone is super nice to everyone. OS was something news in 1997 and beginner Ash was great because we as viewers, could easily get to him because we were also beginners(Pokemons were something new and everyone who started adventures did not know the rules of how types, attacks, items etc.).


I think that Johnto's popularity has been influenced by Anime's popularity.
The creators had no idea that it would live more than 20 years. So they were not prepared and they hurried their time so we got episodes that were often copies of earlier ones. I remember that to the end of Johto the episodes were the most about slowpokes (episodes about them were really a lot)
I dont understand why Misty dont won Whirl cup. That was great point to give Misty something for the scenario. In OS and OI its character and role was phenomenal. Okey She won a contest of beauty and fishing and some in MO5 but I think that something is missing. And it's a pity that they decided to throw her out right after Johto.
They did the same with Brock although I have recently seen all the episodes from OS to AG,
Brock did the least of all. It was stupid that they tried to extend the anime to last until the 3rd generation. They could just do more competitions about pokemon breeding or their feeding and care (in a broth brock could participate and make 2-3 episodes of the thread duplicate the scheme "help the needy") But no xd! Writers only keep Brock for gag with crush in others pokegirls. That was fun but by OS to BW it was already boring. If they left Brock for the gags to lengthen their time on the air, they might as well have left Misty who bothered him.
that it would be that I expressed myself clearly. I like Johto but I think that the creators did not manage as much as they could. I know that they chased their time, they had to start referring to the series of games with this season. And that could cause problems. But when I read the blog Shudo who said something like, that he was not able to develop the character of Misty, I do not really understand him. The same with Brock. It was enough to give a few competitions and some events on which they could prove themselves and it would be okay. Same with bows as lugia larvitar, red gyarados. it was cool but why so late? I think that if it was not for such a large mass of fillers, Johto would be one of the better seasons of this series. A cool league in which Ash did not only make up for 6 pokemons and defeated his rival Gary.

Later in the AG there was a Pokemon Coordinator, an interesting goal, but this was not what the writers invented. This introduced Game Freak. And again, copies of episodes and formulas from previously known episodes began.

Personally, I think people can't compare OS to newer seasons. It was a completely different era and other anime that was created for a different purpose than the present ones. The anime was supposed to have a beginning and the end now we know how it looks. This is to be a never-ending story and the future writers are going easy.
Everything was drawn by hand which lasted longer. The same fights today make fighting animation is much simpler even with their current budget than it was 1997-2001. after the rule, the standards have risen not for the fact that they are better only because technology allowed them (or GF added a pokemon coordinator to the game, which made it easier for the creators to take care of the new heroines).


Sory for my bad english xd
Don't worry about it we understand you ......you had me re-thinking about Kasumi and Takeshi and i don't think os is not that bad but not great though
 

Kintaro

Banned
Misty and Brock just needed more focus on their goals in Johto, instead Johto started the filler formula and Misty/Brock only got a few eps that focused on them.
 

Redstar45

The Anime/Special's canon know it all.
Misty and Brock just needed more focus on their goals in Johto, instead Johto started the filler formula and Misty/Brock only got a few eps that focused on them.
Why are you saying that ?....did you read my mind !? Lol but i am actually agree with that as well
 

laiken

Member
Misty was still affected. This is still a couple of a small figure ( it should be better though). But there were too many fillers, Johto was too long, continuing 70-90 episodes, this problem would not be visible. Some time ago I watched all episodes from OS to AG, and the key to success was Brock, because of cooking and falling in love, he did nothing. Sometimes you feel that it's a bit like Tracy in MO2, where his dialogue to a few lines of text.


The creators are completely lazy and many other characters suffered from this syndrome: Max, Iris, Bonny, Clemont, Serena (the first episodes she does not do anything) most of the characters in SM and Rocket team (though not in every season). It seems to me that the anime on more than 100 episodes is simply beyond the creators.
 
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Kintaro

Banned
Yeah, but this is easy to do.

I'd probably make each saga 100ish eps. While Kanto worked as a shorter season, the other sagas usually have more focus on the female companion and the rivals, so naturally you need more episodes to give them proper focus and development.

The problem is each saga goes on for roughly 140-190 eps or so, with a large chunk of eps being fillers of varying quality.
 

Jeal

Well-Known Member
I'd probably make each saga 100ish eps. While Kanto worked as a shorter season, the other sagas usually have more focus on the female companion and the rivals, so naturally you need more episodes to give them proper focus and development.

The problem is each saga goes on for roughly 140-190 eps or so, with a large chunk of eps being fillers of varying quality.
Yeah, 40 out of 140 episodes of XY were filler, so 100 episodes would work.
 

LilligantLewis

Bonnie stan
I remember that to the end of Johto the episodes were the most about slowpokes (episodes about them were really a lot)

there was a grand total of one Slowpoke filler near the end of Johto (episode 260)

I'd probably make each saga 100ish eps

the length of just Hoenn (not whole AG) was pretty good - Ash got 8th badge episode 111.

Also, in looking this up I found another proof of Mal's XY is the new AG meme - the final episode of the league was episode 131 in both.
 

pokfans

Member
there was a grand total of one Slowpoke filler near the end of Johto (episode 260)

I dont remember in 100% but episod with slowpoke was much in Johto ( episode with GS ball, episode sslowpoke which turned into slowking, episode EP244) and I think I missed something so it really was a lot.
 

LilligantLewis

Bonnie stan
I dont remember in 100% but episod with slowpoke was much in Johto ( episode with GS ball, episode sslowpoke which turned into slowking, episode EP244) and I think I missed something so it really was a lot.
That's a grand total of 2 episodes out of 156. Furthermore, the original person I was talking to said near the end of Johto.
 
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