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I’m just not so sure about how I feel about the OS anymore

Discussion in 'Pokémon Animé Discussion' started by srebak, Dec 30, 2018.

  1. Kintaro

    Kintaro Banned

    If anything it's natural some aspects of the early seasons wouldn't age well because the writers learned how to write battles a lot better (which is obvious, the battles in the OS are the weakest of the series besides a few standouts like Charizard Vs. Magmar), and of course they learned how to develop characters better after the Johto season. Looking back Misty/Brock were sort of designed like Ash/Team Rocket where they only had miminal development because they were intended to last in the series a long time. All the other companions have a limited timeframe in the show, so I guess the development is more noticeable when they're only around a short time?

    I mean this is not even counting Brock's stagnation for most of AG and DP where the writers seemed to purposely use him as just an exposition character and not much more, which is why so many people got bored of him. I remember people wanting Brock to leave the anime years before he actually did for good.

    In fact it's pretty obvious most of Misty/Brock's development happens after they leave the cast. For Misty I think her specials during AG and her cameos in AG/SM developed her better in just like 10 episodes than the entire 156 episode span of Johto did. Isn't it funny Misty gets more development in her cameo returns than when she was on the cast in Johto just lugging Togepi around?
     
    LilligantLewis and Redstar45 like this.
  2. DatsRight

    DatsRight Well-Known Member

    I tend to feel the writers can only put their priorities into so many aspects of the anime per series, so usually for one to get solid development another takes the fall. BW and SM had similar pros and cons to the OS for example, a lower quality battle rate and less dynamic plots and arc focus, but in favour of making the more stagnant elements more fun like the character chemistries, Team Rocket's limelight and more versatile filler material. Most other series it's the other way round, a better focus on arcs and development and some of the more memorable battles, but most of the stuff in between being a very second priority.

    Yeah, the characters were imbalanced in OS, but it's really no different from Mallow's lack of development in SM (or their own water specialist similarly only getting limelight at the tail end) or Ash's equally large but undercooked Unova team. There's always something the writers just leave in the dust each series.
     
  3. ash&charizardfan

    ash&charizardfan Humanity's greatest soldier

    Yeah but SM still was able to develop it characters lillie and kiawe more than OS did to misty and brock, both kiawe and lillie atleast looks like individual characters OS characters were designed to wor great as team or support characters to ash later on and not there individually, similar way TR in SM are comical but they are legit threat in this region unlike BW where they become suddenly serious after being butt monkey for 13 years. Similar way BW Also had different dynamics it introduced multiple battle tournaments which kept the companions in focus not to mention cilan battled a lot in BW and iris goal was covered well. All three series OS, SM and BW were less battle focus series. Besides his unnova team his johto team was pretty poor as well.
     
    LilligantLewis likes this.
  4. DatsRight

    DatsRight Well-Known Member

    I dunno SM still has clear good and bad it just develops in different areas. TR were arguably far more relevant to the plot and had more developed roles as antagonists in OS and BW (though the latter drained their personalities for a while), their characters are okay in SM and we see a more dynamic premise for them, but their rivalry with the twerps is FAR more bland and they offer far less developed challenges despite ironically having better resources (OS and BW TR at least often forced the twerps to outsmart them or win through an actual fight than just a one sided beating, SM TR often lose handly without even getting in a scratch due to Bewear or plot armour, even against the weakest battlers). Out of the three series, I'd say SM TR still feel the most phoned in.

    SM also fluctuates between making the whole cast a mere supporting group for Ash or actual developed characters (even in the OS Misty and Brock at least often contributed their own share of slapstick and comedy, and had their own amount of defining flaws, it was kind of the straight C- student, SM is more the student fluctuating between As and Fs).
     
  5. Kintaro

    Kintaro Banned

    I honestly wish they didn't have Brock give up being a battler from literally his first ep when he went to travel with Ash. Sure he didn't want to stay at the Gym but he could have still been battle oriented on the cast. Instead Brock very rarely battles and especially in the OS whenever he did battle it was just to watch him lose. As I said before, after the first Gym win against Ash...I don't think Brock ever won a single battle in the OS besides some Team Rocket blast-offs here and there. I might be forgetting something, but from what I remember none of his pokemon have any major wins. Brock being a breeder is one thing but just imagine if he also stayed focus on battling, could have helped train Ash more, etc.

    Here's another fun fact: Misty and Brock actually never battle each other in the history of the entire series. I always found this interesting, we actually never see Misty go against Brock in battle in the anime.
     
    Redstar45 likes this.
  6. AznKei

    AznKei Competing against players in Match Masters. XD

    Why would they though? I don't see any purposes to see them fight each other besides gaining a little bit more experience to their Pokemons in which we wouldn't really going to see them outside of them fighting against the other main characters or TRio. I would have liked better if they had their own recurring rivals to keep themselves busy.
     
  7. Kintaro

    Kintaro Banned

    Well they could have battled in a mini-tournament setting, or in a regular ep, etc. I think the general problem was since the OS was so heavily centered around Ash, Misty and Brock were never really allowed to grow trainer/battle/pokemon wise until they left the cast. Their banter in the group kept them interesting (well at least for Kanto), but it's especially noticeable the writers rarely gave them focus outside the odd filler episode they dedicated to them every so often.
     
  8. AznKei

    AznKei Competing against players in Match Masters. XD

    Yeah, I felt a similar way about XY, especially since I care about the companions more, I'm like "My god! How could the writers restricted them so hard?", to make it worse Serena didn't get a special episode and a cameo. Way to go to let their fans down.
     
  9. Redstar45

    Redstar45 A POCKET MONSTERS & DIGITAL MONSTERS Fan !

    We get it....but just don't blame on Satoshi but writers team for that
     
  10. AznKei

    AznKei Competing against players in Match Masters. XD

    Sorry but he's the status quo and they're going to abuse him at their heart contents. That's why I favor to see him completely gone and gives Pikachu to someone else or a Pikachu unrelated to him like in the games, despite knowing how unlikely these would happen.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2019
  11. Redstar45

    Redstar45 A POCKET MONSTERS & DIGITAL MONSTERS Fan !

    I could care less about that Satoshi ruin Pokegirls as then old writers or incompetent director did .
     
    LilligantLewis likes this.
  12. DatsRight

    DatsRight Well-Known Member

    Truthfully, I can't help but feel the times Ash and Team Rocket take over the story are more due to the writers not having any ideas for the companions and needing the mainstays to pick up the slack, given they're usually easier to place into plots due to being conventional good guys and bad guys.

    If they got rid of Ash or TR they'd likely just make similar archetypes that could pad necessary screentime, as observed with episodes featuring the likes of Ritchie or Team Skull.
     
  13. AznKei

    AznKei Competing against players in Match Masters. XD

    I want to see the studio of the anime being challenged though, by having another studio being able to use the franchise rights as well and being able to make their shows as long as the main one outside of Ash. I would like to see the results, instead of expressing doubts. I want to see the competitions, so that the producers/writers can push themselves harder.
     
  14. DatsRight

    DatsRight Well-Known Member

    They did that just a couple years back. If anything it just pushed the mainstream anime to act more conventional to balance it out. If anything SM is them TRYING to make more ambitious storytelling right now.
     
  15. AznKei

    AznKei Competing against players in Match Masters. XD

    With what, origins & generations? That's not enough. That's why I wrote as long as the main anime earlier, because they haven't done anything like that before.
     
  16. DatsRight

    DatsRight Well-Known Member

    Yeah but they were still ongoing when XY was being made for the most part.

    I think the problem is that the main anime has been very formulaic for the large part, Kanto was more diverse, but they never expanded much after that, they were like a standard cartoon that streamlines to the most memorable parts and makes a formula out of them. The problem now is that they've done it so long it's really served it's time. Even compared to some other cartoon formulas that have lived on for decades but haven't neared the over 1000 times ongoing usage the Pokemon anime has went through.

    Right now, we do see baby steps of trying to be more versatile, but obviously since it's still a rather new and exciting direction, it's rather unfocused and the mainstay characters are still blatantly used as a crutch throughout the whole thing. When in doubt, have Ash battle, or have Team Rocket barge in with a scheme, or hit the BOTH of them with slapstick.
     
  17. Redstar45

    Redstar45 A POCKET MONSTERS & DIGITAL MONSTERS Fan !

    Then throw them out if they are overstayed their own welcome in the Pokemon anime show now
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
  18. Kintaro

    Kintaro Banned

    Also is it just me or is johto's animation worse than Kanto's? A lot of Kanto's eps still stand out to this day due to the nice hand drawn animation and some eps look really stylized. But when you get over to Johto the animation actually gets blander and all the eps look the same. Sure Iwane's animated eps still stand out but not the others. I guess because in Johto they were rushing one new ep out one after the other? Then they switch to digital animation during the last 10 eps of Johto and into AG and then stuff looks noticeably different.

    Johto is also where the, "generic anime forest" started to be used in almost every single ep too.
     
  19. PorcelainVulpix

    PorcelainVulpix justice for johto

    When people think of OS, do they just forget about the Orange Islands? I feel like it’s the “forgotten middle child” to some of the fandom, but I always loved it and found it entertaining.
     
    LilligantLewis likes this.
  20. Kintaro

    Kintaro Banned

    Not really, Kanto and to a lesser extent Orange Islands were considered the "golden age" of the anime. It's when you get over to Johto most people forget most of the episodes besides the ones that stand out, because a lot of Johto fillers all blend in with each other. And as I said before, Ash's Johto team like Bayleef/Cyndaquil/Totodile/Noctowl just doesn't have the same nostalgia following Ash's Kanto team has. Honestly Ash's Johto pokemon are the forgotten middle child of most of his pokemon teams.
     

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