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I’m just not so sure about how I feel about the OS anymore

Discussion in 'Pokémon Animé Discussion' started by srebak, Dec 30, 2018.

  1. DatsRight

    DatsRight Well-Known Member

    I think it really depends how well they make the characters merge into whatever's going on, funny or serious. If a character can still play into the current dynamic and feel like they fit, they can work. If they just spend each and every appearance doing the same old skit with no alterations of course they'll feel like dead weight. I mean Team Rocket's butting into every plot post-OS really has a "When are they going to get to the fireworks factory?" feel, they're not contributing to the dynamic, they're just doing their own thing and cutting the new ideas off rather than complementing and flowing into them. Hell the show itself treats them as irrelevant nuisances, but at the same time doesn't do anything with that. Ironically the OS was the only time the twerps really had a funny chemistry with them regarding it so they don't really click together as a fun rivalry otherwise. Brock meanwhile was famous for ending up a background character due to never altering his shtick of pervert gags or having many developed chemistries with the new companions.

    I guess the trick with Ash is that they often alter his character slightly to fit with the new dynamic and characters, so he usually still immerses into the rest of the series. Others like Brock, Misty and TR didn't really get fine tuned to keep standing out as the formula changed (besides maybe TR in BW, though many agree that was maybe too drastic).

    This is the most likely reason for some new characters that just don't 'click' either, the writers didn't think through how they would fit into the series' premise, usually they just have a few running gags and a goal and run that into the ground.
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2019
  2. Kintaro

    Kintaro Banned

    Gary might very well be one of the most screwed over rivals of the series. Out of the 276 episode OS, I think Gary only appears in less than 15 episodes. And most of the eps he does appear for are back to back eps like the league, or only 2 minutes of an episode and then disappears (like the Hoot Hoot ep in Johto, etc).

    It's actually bizarre Gary has remained so popular a character when you stop to realize how little he actually appeared in the anime, let alone how he disappears after the OS for most of AG, then only appears 3 times in DP...and then is never seen again to date.
  3. Redstar45


    My problem with writer staffs is they need shudõ himself to guide them during os kanto arc and they didn't post a real challenge stuff during later of the os era ( haif of orange islands arc and most jhotou arc)
  4. Shadao

    Shadao Champion GETTO DA ZE!

    Gary Oak simply leaves a big impression by being a brat, the rival that is always one step ahead in both knowledge, power and distance. Constantly mentioned by everyone else to deflate Ash when he's not on-screen might have helped as well.

    Then consider the fact that many fans got their hands on Pokémon games as kids. They control a character that looks like Ash, and they see this arrogant person as their rival who looks and acts like Gary from the show. And that rival has memorable lines like "Smell ya later!" (which is something that Gary has never said, oddly enough, despite the quote being attributed to him). Consequently, when player isn't in the nasty mood of naming him "LOSER", the rival is almost unanimously called Gary Oak (Blue/Green Oak wouldn't be until the G/S era). And this is what likely inflated Gary's popularity despite having a relative lack of screen time in the actual show.

    It's like finding out that J Jonah Jameson only appears for a few minutes in the first Spider-Man movie (and he disappears in the second half of the story) despite being one of the most hyped and memorable parts of the film (with comics and cartoons giving him more exposure to audiences when the film does not).
  5. Redstar45


    Actually he did say "see you later ! Satoshi-kun" in eary anime
  6. ash&charizardfan

    ash&charizardfan Humanity's greatest soldier

    I think gary's lack of appearances in particularly johto series signifies how poorly that series was written, i mean it was pretty obvious they wanted to built series around ash so for him to develop they would have brought him from time to time to spice p there rivalry which could develop both ash and gary. Secondly gary throughout the series was never seen battling for once which never built him as a redible rival, for all we see ash always got the better of gary whether it was in indigo league, the pokemon race and the johto league.

    gary's popularity is mainly due to nostalgia and fact that him vs ash are anime version of red vs blue, but as a rival i say paul was far more better even alain (as bad as XY was in treating rivals) pose a credible threat to ash in hindsight something gary never posed.
  7. Shadao

    Shadao Champion GETTO DA ZE!

    True, in Japan. But in the USA, where most people grew up with the English localization, there were many fans who would swear that Gary said "Smell ya later!" at one point in the anime, and they're not the type to be watching the original Japanese episodes (beyond the curiosity of Lt. Surge swearing and Butterfree being dead rumor).

    Clearly it has something to do with the games since there were old TV commercials showing the rival being called Gary.
    Spider-Phoenix and Redstar45 like this.
  8. LilligantLewis

    LilligantLewis primarina donna

    Gary beat Ash in the final episode of the Orange Islands. In fact, each time Ash wins something, Gary is there to knock him down a peg.
  9. ash&charizardfan

    ash&charizardfan Humanity's greatest soldier

    Yeah and the main reason he lost was because he was cocky after winning the orange league, even misty said so later. In fact gary has always beaten ash when won something like OL or BF to bring him back to earth and make him realize that there are other regions but ash has always beaten gary when both of them were in competitive match unlike paul or alain who use to beat him.
  10. DatsRight

    DatsRight Well-Known Member

    I feel like partway into the show they decided to reboot Gary into the more level headed rival that kept humbling Ash. Then when they got to the Johto league they remembered what an intentionally smarmy little asshole they made him originally so felt it right he get his token comeuppance.
  11. Kintaro

    Kintaro Banned

    Misty and Gary both became nicer in Johto but lost a lot of their spark and humor from Kanto. It was probably supposed to be character development but the writers just dropped aspects of their personalities.
    LilligantLewis likes this.
  12. CMButch

    CMButch Well-Known Member

    OS was, for me, good especially Kanto and OI thanks to 4kids. OS in Japanese is too much "Japanese for me", I wouldn't understand the jokes, while in 4kids I understood them. 4Kids >> Japanese for me. Johto was the most boring saga with countless fillers, despite comedy being there.
  13. Kintaro

    Kintaro Banned

    The better episodes of Johto are still good, and nearly all the Team Rocket-centered fillers in Johto are very funny. I ironically think TR were at their most entertaining in Johto after Kanto.
    PorcelainVulpix likes this.
  14. DatsRight

    DatsRight Well-Known Member

    Had Johto been streamlined to its most noteworthy and entertaining episodes it likely would have been a fun experience, though if you done that it likely wouldn't have been much bigger than Kanto. Besides stalling until Gen 3 came out, Johto shouldn't have been as long as a proper series.
  15. Kintaro

    Kintaro Banned

    Johto should have been another 83ish eps like Kanto was. Have Ash's Johto starters evolve (Totodile could have stayed as a gag pokemon I guess), and they could have given Misty more things to do in what was her final saga of the series forever. Instead all of Misty's development happens after she leaves the cast in her cameos/specials with things that should have been done when she was actually on the show.
    LilligantLewis and Redstar45 like this.
  16. Nodame

    Nodame Since 2008

    I enjoyed Johto fillers more than other Pokemon series as a whole..
    PorcelainVulpix likes this.
  17. Razor Claw

    Razor Claw Active Member

    One of the reasons I think Gary appeared so infrequently was because they wanted to keep his starting Pokemon a secret. He was always a somewhat secretive character until the end of Johto, where many of his Pokemon were revealed. So in that sense, he was written differently than other rivals such as Paul.

    Of course, he still has a lot of fans because he was the original rival, a good character in his appearances, and had a lot of strong Pokemon. He was funny in all of his appearances in the Kanto league, with his taunting of Ash being so over-the-top.

    I mentioned in another thread that it would be interesting to see a spinoff/side story show of Gary during the original series. We could see his character development and some Pokemon of his we never got to see, like Kingdra and Pinsir. It also would be interesting to see when in his journey he decided he wanted to be a Pokemon researcher.
  18. Kintaro

    Kintaro Banned

    I think the general problem is not much was planned out for the characters. I highly suspect Ash and Gary were originally intended to battle in the Indigo league but for some reason the writers changed their minds. To see Gary delayed all the way to the end of Johto to have his league match with Ash was telling.

    It's also kind of obvious there were no long term plans for Misty/Brock after Kanto. That's why once we got into Johto, they were mostly just there to be exactly the same, but since the writing got duller in Johto Misty/Brock got less things to do and their characters waned a bit.
    LilligantLewis and Redstar45 like this.

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