I think Misty was only barely above a beginning trainer when we met her, Staryu was apparently her starter. I wonder if the Starmie was from her sisters since she never seemed to care about it as much. And she probably caught Goldeen only a little before meeting Ash.
-
Hi all. We have had reports of member's signatures being edited to include malicious content. You can rest assured this wasn't done by staff and we can find no indication that the forums themselves have been compromised.
However, remember to keep your passwords secure. If you use similar logins on multiple sites, people and even bots may be able to access your account.
We always recommend using unique passwords and enable two-factor authentication if possible. Make sure you are secure. -
Be sure to join the discussion on our discord at: Discord.gg/serebii
I’m just not so sure about how I feel about the OS anymore
- Thread starter srebak
- Start date
I think Misty was only barely above a beginning trainer when we met her, Staryu was apparently her starter. I wonder if the Starmie was from her sisters since she never seemed to care about it as much. And she probably caught Goldeen only a little before meeting Ash.
PineapplePizza
Well-Known Member
^Yeah it was heavily insinuated that Misty was pretty new to Pokemon training herself with her sisters talking about her leaving home to become a Pokemon trainer. The rules of gym leaderdom in the anime are pretty vague but I get the impression Misty was only a gym leader by virtue of being one of the Sensational Sisters.
It was drowning. It lost. At best you could argue that Pidgeotto beat the (presumably) stronger Starmie and would have most likely beat Staryu
She probably isn't much more experience than he is. She's only 10. And by the time they fought again he was much more experienced by then and battled more often than she did. At the very least their next battle she lost because A. Psyduck came out to fight when she wasn't calling on it B. Ash had already seen the headache trick
Jeal
Well-Known Member
It wasn't knocked out, Ash switched out and could use it again. If he had used Pikachu, he would have defeated her in two minutes. Pikachu refusing to fight was a dumb plot device.
Yeah, but Prof.Salty said she did not need to train(even though she was wanting to be a water type master) to be better than him.
It wasn't just whether Misty was 'better' than Ash but that she had been on the ropes longer than him and at the end of the day everyone has to start somewhere. She was berating and calling him incompetent before he'd even gone a full day as a trainer, and that day had MANY things working against him that she shown zero sympathy over. I think after that it's hard to blame Ash getting defensive and insulting her back.
I get she was implied to have got the same treatment from her sisters and the like for not being as 'good' as them, but that doesn't make Misty justified, it just means she has a sympathetic backstory and copes by taking it out on some other poor schmuck, which is the equivalent of a small bully thinking they're entitled to be such because they were picked on by a bigger bully.
Granted I might side with Ash more from experience, I have worked with several people who thought because they were more experienced they didn't have to show any manners about it and were obsessively rude, self important and bad tempered towards me and everyone else because we didn't do things absolutely perfectly as they wanted first time round, and very quickly I lost my temper and snarled back at them, and got in trouble for it. Misty is someone that is kinda likeable as a cartoon character but in real life is an insufferable jackass.
I get she was implied to have got the same treatment from her sisters and the like for not being as 'good' as them, but that doesn't make Misty justified, it just means she has a sympathetic backstory and copes by taking it out on some other poor schmuck, which is the equivalent of a small bully thinking they're entitled to be such because they were picked on by a bigger bully.
Granted I might side with Ash more from experience, I have worked with several people who thought because they were more experienced they didn't have to show any manners about it and were obsessively rude, self important and bad tempered towards me and everyone else because we didn't do things absolutely perfectly as they wanted first time round, and very quickly I lost my temper and snarled back at them, and got in trouble for it. Misty is someone that is kinda likeable as a cartoon character but in real life is an insufferable jackass.
Last edited:
pokemon fan 132
Well-Known Member
Perhaps due to family relationships ties, this is one of ways for someone to become gym leader on that sole account.
I think Misty was gym leader, but not very experienced one. Afterall she did stated several times that she was gym leader before traveling with Ash(in main anime but in third movie as well), who apparently got fed up living in shadow of older sisters who belittled her and degraded her worth.
I think Misty had more experience and strength than typical rookie at that time(after all Starmie and Goldeen alongside Staryu kinda supports this thesis), but due to not having much chance to practice her skills in gym at that time due to older siblings shutting her of from most activities and due to being fairly new herself to journey her battling competence wasn't all that high.
She did improved later, especially in Johto being one of her stronger points in that saga. Especially in master Quest where writers seemed to start picking things up giving her much better treatment. And as result of that Misty herself in characterization and interactions also was much more lively and showed fruits of her granted slow but still growth showing up in several episodes both in maturity but her competence as trainer too.
If she was written in whole Johto as it was in 5th season , people would have no issues with her treatment in that region.
But we all know what were real reasons behind middle of Johto being way it was(lack of understanding and vision between writers and higher ups).
Butterfree lost, it was confirmed in episode itself. In canon at end of episode it was stated that both Ash and Misty were completely tied for all intents and purposes. Staryu defeated Butterfree(due to drowning Ash called it back with this being treated as surrender). While PIdgeotto arguably was about to defeat Starmie. But that would only mean 1-1 as total result at that time.
Real question is, could it be that Staryu was actually stronger pokemon than Starmie?
Because based on its speed and competence showed in gym battle but also later in series it sure seemed to be on higher level.
Speaking of Pikachu, it was his decision not wanting to battle Misty due to having sympathy for her, looking back Ash Pikachu was always quite fond of her. Besides it was good call from writers side imo, because it allowed for more engaging and unpredictable outcome at that time. Sure Pikachu due to huge type advantage would win, but this way Misty and Ash chances were evened out.
Last edited:
LilligantLewis
Bonnie stan
gotta love Mr. Big and Reliable, eh, @AuraChannelerChris?
What does translation have to do with it? Was Charizard's disobedience different in the original?
I just think that's because so many Kanto Pokémon hogged the spotlight in Johto and so many Johto Pokémon remained unevolved, not because Johto is part of the OS lol.
and yet in SM043 she uses the fandom term PITY BADGES to describe the situation
PorcelainVulpix
currently watching LOK
Honestly you’re reading way too hard into it. The anime is based off of the games. They needed a rookie to make rookie mistakes that someone might make while playing the game and they needed someone to teach him to do it the right way. Misty being ~mean~ to him was supposed to be considered funny back then. Girl and guy teasing each other was kind of the thing back then I guess, think of Helga on Hey Arnold. She was terrible to him and no one blinked an eye lol.
Jeal
Well-Known Member
If you will use switch out as defeat, so Misty recalled Staryu(defeated) and Starmie was about to lose.
About Pikachu, I know why they did it, but it's still stupid. Mainly now with SM043.
Yeah, but the whole 'girls abusing boys is perfectly okay' skit always has been a divisive element.
The problem came more when Ash was made the 'designated villain' of the argument.
pokemon fan 132
Well-Known Member
Yes Misty did recalled Staryu exchanging it out for Starmie, but as we saw in some gyms like vs Blaine or Lenora for example in BW in some gyms both gym leader and challenger can recall pokemon during battle.
However unlike Butterfree who was clearly drowning with its recall being counted as defeat, Misty normally exchanged Staryu being still on her disposition for later use.
Just because it didn't had swirls in eyes does not mean Butterfree didn't lost, he was about to die with Ash just calling it back to save his life. Beside it was obvious who dominated that round.
I guess compared to newer sagas ways pokemon lost or won battles in early days may seem as unconventional or extreme but that's how it was.
At end of episode it was as a matter of fact clearly stated how Ash lost round with Butterfree with Ash himself acknowledging it saying he was about to come back with Pidgeotto. Being in canon stated how it was a draw that battle.
Last edited:
PineapplePizza
Well-Known Member
What? No. Why are you being obtuse about this? There's a difference between being forced into a retreat and switching out your Pokemon for another when your opponent calls out his second Pokemon.
Yes. Nobody is denying this. The point is Ash lost 1 Pokemon and Misty was about to lose 1 Pokemon. It's a fair assumption that Pidgeotto was going to beat Starmie and would have then beat Staryu (assuming Starmie is stronger than Staryu but given Starmie's track record its hard to say it might have been a Staryu that was evolved too quickly) And saying Ash would have probably won the match anyways is a pretty good prediction based on the events but we don't know. For all we know Starmie could have used recover and made a comeback or Staryu could have been stronger than Starmie and beat Pidgeotto.
As it stands Ash was down 1 Pokemon and Misty was on track to being down 1 Pokemon. Ash was not "pounding Misty"
I fail to see how SM043 makes it retroactively stupid now? Pikachu refused to fight Misty in this episode because at that point it knew Misty about as long as he knew Ash and appeared to like them just the same. By the time of SM043 it had traveled 7 regions with Ash and hadn't really seen much of Misty since the Johto days. It's not that hard to reason that he just wans't as attached to Misty as he used to be and had been through enough with Ash to listen to him no matter what.
Jeal
Well-Known Member
It knew her for 5 episodes. Ash was his trainer, it's expected it obeys the trainer instead of a girl it barely knows. It would be better if Pikachu was exhausted to fight.
PorcelainVulpix
currently watching LOK
Right, Pikachu had no reason to have an issue with battling Gyarados. I remember how badly it didn’t wanna battle Togepi lol.
Zhydra
Master of Chaos!
That and unlike most of Misty's pokemon, Pikachu never really knew Gyarados. That pokemon is someone Misty had to deal with on her own without Ash's help.
PorcelainVulpix
currently watching LOK
Well the writers do have a tendency to be very inconsistant.
Jeal
Well-Known Member
The reason because it didn't want to battle was Misty, not her pokémon(Misty's Staryu just appeared in the previous episode, Starmie debuted in the gym battle). Just acknowledge that it was a plot device, no need to make excuses.
ash&charizardfan
Humans are tools
the main reason pikachu didn't battled her was simply to make misty a threat, pikachu would have single handidly smashed both staryu and starmi on its own, even her elder sister mentioned that so it was to give her a chance in the match.