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I really wish the writers would stop "trying new things"

Discussion in 'Pokémon Animé Discussion' started by Sham, Jan 25, 2020.

  1. Sham

    Sham Aang could never

    From small things like making anime exclusive goals, to getting rid of the traveling formula to now no longer going with the current games plots or using their characters. OS-DP felt like a perfect flowing story and the writers just keep trying to shake the table and every time it gets worse and worse.
  2. BabaVanga

    BabaVanga Well-Known Member

    The lack of overarching plot definitely hurts the story, but as someone who enjoys episodic plots and characters I don't mind it as long as I can see some of my favourite Pokémon animated.

    It's also nowhere near as bad as the games and their new gimmicks. I've reached a point where I don't want any of the older Pokémon to get a new form/regional variant/evolution.
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2020
  3. TheWanderingMist

    TheWanderingMist Gaganga, Keeper of the Gates Impartial

    No, it didn't. Sure, the OS regions flowed into each other, but there's an abrupt break at Hoenn that doesn't get restored until Battle Frontier and then Sinnoh just throws Ash's personality out the window in a failed attempt to be serious.
  4. Leonhart

    Leonhart Imagineer

    The anime would became stagnated if the writers didn't try new things every once in a while. I wasn't a fan of how SM was handled since it brought a lot of change that I didn't like, but I tolerated it just like I'm tolerating the new stuff from Pocket Monsters.
    wolf jani and AshxSatoshi like this.
  5. Sham

    Sham Aang could never

    The entire series doesn’t revolve around Ash’s personality. I was mostly referring to narrative wise and Ash’s journey as a trainer along with key aspects of the anime that was for the most part consistent like Pokegirls being in occasional battles.

    I’m all for change as well but only if the change is positive or the positives out weigh the negatives. Changing the “formula” should be a good thing that has positive results. I enjoyed SM for being different but Ash and co being stuck on Melemele island for no good reason and barely showcasing the other Islands was a bad choice.
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2020
  6. BabaVanga

    BabaVanga Well-Known Member

    Ash leaving all of his Pokémon barring Pikachu behind before going to Hoenn is all but "perfect flowing story" though.
  7. Sham

    Sham Aang could never

    By the logic you should of stopped watching the series after Johto because that’s a thing done every series. It’s consistent within the show that Ash’s switches his teams every saga. Maybe at the time it wasn’t consistent but looking at the collective at a whole; it’s pretty consistent. Exaggeration is also a thing, I’m fully aware that each series had their tweaks but not as drastic as what we’ve been getting.
  8. BabaVanga

    BabaVanga Well-Known Member

    Same can be said about non-battling Pokégirls; it's the third series in a row without Pokégirl with a battle-related goal so it's also became pretty consistent now.
  9. Sham

    Sham Aang could never

    I already said in a previous part that Pokegirls battling WAS consistent...so what are you arguing about?
  10. Satoshi & Touko

    Satoshi & Touko Glimwood Tangle is Literal Dreamland

    At first, I cringed hard at the title of this thread because "trying new things" should never be something that is avoided.

    On that note though, PM2019 does remind me that the first part of what I quoted is valid. PM2019 does change things up, but not in a good way. One change that should've never been made was that of no longer having the setting being the region of which the new generation games are based off of.
  11. Sham

    Sham Aang could never

    Ergo the saying "don't fix something that isn't broken". I'm fine with sticking to the formula and changing things every once in awhile than drastic changes that overall were bad choices (at least in my opinion). Anime exclusive goals? Not showcasing the new region? Now allowing the girls to battle? Only staying in one place without saturating the rest of the region? Bad choices.
    janejane6178 and Ubermuk like this.
  12. BabaVanga

    BabaVanga Well-Known Member

    Ash taking his Pokémon with him to other regions was consistent too. It changed since the Hoenn saga and now ir's consistent he switches his team every region.

    Pokégirls being more active battlers was consistent until XY, and now it's consistent they rarely take part in battles. It's 3rd saga without Pokégirl battler so it's consistent.

    That's why OS-DP wasn't perfect flowing story because after traveling with his older mons through Orange Archipelago and Johto he decided to only take Pikachu with him to Hoenn.

    That's kind of drastic change if you ask me, more so than Pokégirls being mire active battlers or anime-exclusive goals (which was actually a thing since OS when they gave Brock Pokémon Breeder goal).
    Leonhart likes this.
  13. Sham

    Sham Aang could never

    Ash took all his Pokémon to a total of one region excluding the Orange Islands. How is that consistent? Compared to Pokegirls battling for a total of five sagas? Ash releasing his Pokémon per region maybe not consistent to you but Ash him releasing his Pokémon every saga definitely is consistent. Like I said hyperbole was being used in terms of “perfect” but if you can’t see a distinct difference in between BW-Pk19 from OS-DP due to the fact Ash released his Pokémon for the first time 17 years ago I can’t really help you.
    AshxSatoshi likes this.
  14. Leonhart

    Leonhart Imagineer

    I wasn't that fond of the way that Jouto transitioned into Houen since we had to deal with that awful episode where Satoshi and Pikachu were on their own right before AG began, which I felt was especially painful since it was the very last OS episode and it ended up becoming one of the worst ones of that saga. Then of course there was Kasumi's departure in the episode before that, which was highly controversial at the time. But even with that ordeal, I was still a little glad that the writers tried something new by getting rid of Kasumi and having Satoshi start off fresh with just Pikachu. Looking back, I can't imagine the Houen saga starting off any other way.
    JustAStatistic likes this.
  15. Blastmaster

    Blastmaster Well-Known Member

    It's... not about trying new things. It's about executing them well. It's not like Contests are at all like they are in the games, and the anime has never been about faithfully adapting game material. Hell, the highlights of most series are almost always anime exclusive. Rivals like Paul, Drew, Harley? None of those guys exist in the games.

    Plus the idea of what the formula actually is has changed a ton over time. Getting rid of Misty and Ash leaving with only Pikachu was huge when it first happened. I actually agree that OS-DP felt a lot more continuous, but it's not because the later series altered the formula, it's because they just had a bigger focus on continuity. You can say the changes to the formula are getting worse recently, and you're entitled to that opinion (I might even agree with you on some of them), but you can't say it's bad just because the formula was changed. The formula's been changing since the beginning.
  16. Sham

    Sham Aang could never

    In my opinion Paul was definitely influenced by Silver but that’s just my thoughts. I agree with your analysis that the anime is ever changing. The reason why I probably don’t consider Ash leaving his Pokémon and Misty is probably because I grew up basically DP-BW so it was already a trend in my view. My bias aside I still stand by the belief that there was formula or “blue print” that each series followed for the most part. The formula has been “changing” because naturally the writers can’t give us the same bread and butter each series but that doesn’t mean core things weren’t kept. After DP (or XY depending on who you ask) there was disruption. I don’t think you can even blame continuity on why OS-DP seemed coherent when SM had a bunch of continuity but was still an outlier. Same series that had Ash reference Tauros, remixed DP tracks, brought back Misty and Brock etc. When I say “I’m tired of them trying new things” I’m discussing them trying new things horribly. It’s my way of saying that I’d rather them stick to what they know if they’re just going to keep giving us bad ideas back to back.
    brtnvm and Leonhart like this.
  17. SerGoldenhandtheJust

    SerGoldenhandtheJust Well-Known Member

    Oh hell no i disagree with the title
    "don't fix what isn't broken" It was broken. Oh it was broken so so so much. It was stale, boring, unoriginal and ash was slowly losing personality
    OS-DP felt like a continuous story But BW XY SM didn't. That's not because of new changes its because of less continuity. Come on now.
    I for one welcome new changes. The contests in the games are boring. The show made them so appealing and fun. Anime only goals are part of its charm. SM finally for me made fillers so much fun. Something new and exciting. Changing up dynamics, ash not having the same damn team everytime, etc. You guys are just angry at PM19 rn coz there isn't an overarching plot yet but give it time. It's so overreacting imo. For once i cant can't predict the anime and it's a fun ride. It makes me look forward to what they pull next
  18. CMButch

    CMButch Kanto is love. Kanto is life.

    New things should be made into old thing like not changing the structure of anime.
    Example SM changed the structure of anime into Slice of Life and Comedy and Pokemon has always been adventure with action and comedy on the side( except OS where comedy is more present).
    OS: Adventure and comedy with some action.
    AG: Adventure and action with some comedy
    DP: Adventure and action with less comedy
    BW: Adventure and action with some comedy
    XY: Adventure and action with less comedy
    SM: Slice of Life and comedy with less action
    PM: Adventure and comedy with less action( so far)
    That's why SM is the weakest because PM's change works just they need to put more action in it and it'd be really good.Pokemon has always been adventure and comedy and change sometimes doesn't work. Imagine DBZ turning into mystery/drama instead of action/comedy anime. Does that work? No. But if DBZ is done like action/comedy and things change like fights are different like strategic and not just screaming and who hits harder that's a change which works it doesn't change DBZ to be mystery drama. Same with Pokemon. PM is good just it needs more action and that's it. Pokemon doesn't work as SoL but as adventure just different adventure like in PM or better...

    What SM should've been is retaining adventure with action but done things differently like Naruto part 1.( going into different locations beating evil etc).
    PM removed SoL aspect and made adventure back but so far action is not presented in it. I found PM better than SM but it kinda seems boring...We will see.
    If PM picks up on action it will all be good and that change is good. They changed formula of anime by not changing key elements like adventure, comedy and per say action( like I said it needs more action), while SM not only changed formula( which was good thing) but changed key elements which is bad thing like SoL thing instead of adventure. Action was really bad and reduced( until the league) and comedy was there which was presented in anime.
    If PM retains action back like in AG,BW,XY and DP. PM would be my 2nd or 3rd favorite Pokemon series. I doubt anything will surpass DP for me. XY is hard but we will see PM.
  19. U.N. Owen

    U.N. Owen In Brightest Day, In Blackest Night ...

    The reason why I was among the people who wanted change in the DP days is that there was just so much wrong with those old series. Bad pacing, reused plots, boring characters, half-baked concepts, and an overall lack of tension.

    Despite the changes, the old habits die hard. We still have these problems. I would argue that the changes only magnified them.

    BW: Even looking at it from a soft reboot perspective, it's hard to like this series because it tries so hard to emulate the OS. It tries so hard that it actually emulates the flaws of the OS. For example, Iris's dragon master is as vague and half-baked as Misty's water master plot. The pacing was awful. They didn't utilize their time wisely for Episode N and failed to develop Team Plasma outside of being a discount Team Rocket only without the interesting schism. Oh and everything about Trip. It certainly emulated the poor pacing of the OS where filler would take up so much time (Johto).

    XY: This is where boring characters hit the fan as I found rivals to be half-baked. If the rival proper wasn't half-baked like Miette or Nene, then you have a highly underdeveloped rivalry like Alain. This leads to boring plots, especially Serena, and lack of tension. It certainly emulated how I found May more interesting than Ash because of a better supporting cast only without a good supporting cast for Serena.

    SM: This is where bad pacing hits the fan since arcs exist, but they are way too short and choppy or are so tensionless that I don't care. Keep to the SoL stuff. That's what you're good at.
  20. Sceptile Leaf Blade

    Sceptile Leaf Blade Nighttime Guardian

    This isn't even something that bothers me. This setting has a lot of potential to revisit old areas and touch upon things in regions we didn't get to see before. My problem is they're not grabbing that potential and teleporting all over the world with a different region every episode with nothing but old formulaic fillers. What's the point of going all the way to Snowpoint City if all you're going to do there is an episode that you could copy-paste to the harbour at Vermillion City and not change a thing? Like, I'd have loved for them to get more in-depth with some of the old legendaries and their lore, like picking up the old Ho-Oh plotline, or visiting Meteor Falls and the Draconid people from the ORAS Delta Episode, or maybe finally explore the Cave of Origin or figure out where Team Aqua and Team Magma got their hands on Groudon and Kyogre. They never did Xerneas and Yveltal in Kalos either if I recall correctly. I'd have loved it if they took arcs of a couple of episodes doing things like that.
    JW1004, catzeye, anjunajake and 3 others like this.

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