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If Ash used different Pokemon against Takuto would the outcome be different?

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garfield15

Digi/Pokemon lover
It's just because people really want Ash to win once.

I mean, it's never gonna happen, but that is why it keeps getting brought up.
 

Joe.

Well-Known Member
No, he had to get beat down so he could have used the dream team and nothing would have changed.
 

TsukiMirage

Rikudou Master
Likely not. I could see Paul doing it though.
 

demiblood

Well-Known Member
I don't think so. I mean they gave Takuto legendary pokemon! I mean I'm surprised they are even aloud in.
 

KibaLG8

Well-Known Member since the DP Series.
If Ash used Pikachu, Sceptile Charizard, Snorlax, Infernape, Torterra, Heracross, Torkoal, Glalie, Swellow, and Gible.... somehow, Ash would still lose. Even his best 6 Pokemon, whoever they are, wouldn't have been able to take down 6 Pokemon of Takuto's. Now I wonder how the Isshu League Rival will be, hopefully not Touko(having similar clothes to Ash) and having some of pre-evolved Isshu Pokemon that Ash will have at the time of the league..... oh and they are nicknamed! 0_0
 

SketchFox7

Well-Known Member
I believe that

Pikachu
Charizard
Sceptile
Staraptor/Snorlax
Infernape
Glalie/Gible

Coulda gotten him further against Takuto, possibly to Pokémon number 6
 

mew151

Thunder Trainer
I think he still would have lost against Takuto even with his team of formidable Pokemon. Still, I would expect Ash to reveal all of Takuto's 6 Pokemon if it was played differently in answering to us what the other 4 Pokemon the Sinnou League winner would have used. This battle sorely needed a 2nd part.
 

poizonsting

Pokemon master
I'm still in shock that Ash used Swellow as his wildcard instead of Charizard. Not that I was expecting to see Charizard anyway, but using 3 Hoenn Pokemon against Takuto? C'mon now...that was totally overkill.

Had Ash used Charizard as his wildcard entry, the outcome wouldn't have been different; and by that I mean Ash still would have lost to Takuto, but he would have lost by a lesser margin. This is how I picture the battle would have been:

Ash's team: Heracross, Gible, Sceptile, Torkoal, Pikachu, Charizard.

Darkrai vs. Heracross - Heracross loses but before fainting weakens Darkrai by Megahorn

Darkrai vs. Gible - Gible loses but before fainting weakens Darkrai further by Rock Smash

Darkrai vs. Sceptile - Sceptile wins using Leaf Blade

Latios vs. Sceptile - Sceptile goes down without even landing a single hit on Latios

Latios vs. Pikachu - After a hard fought battle, Pikachu beats Latios, leaving Pikachu on the verge of fainting

Entei vs. Pikachu - Pikachu is easily defeated without even landing a single blow on Entei

Entei vs. Charizard - I'm assuming Charizard has had learned Dragon Rush back in the Charicific Valley when Ash called him upon for the league battle. So, both Pokemon keep exchanging powerful moves that keeps Ash pondering on how to beat Entei. Suddenly, Ash orders Charizard to use Overheat/Blast Burn on itself so that Charizard's whole body is covered with fire. Takuto watches Ash and Charizard in awe. He says arrogantly "Ordering your Pokemon to use move on itself. I see you have already given up hope". Ash smirks, "I am only beginning to warm up". Ash then commands Charizard to fly up high while spinning. As soon as Charizard reaches a reasonable height, Ash orders him to dive down as fast as he can and use Dragon Rush directed at Entei (picture how Cynthia's Garchomp would look like if it were to use Dragon Rush while its body is covered with flame and spinning). Takuto's mind starts running wild. Not sure what to do, he hesitantly commands Entei to dodge. Entei dodges, but Ash is quick, as if he was expecting that to happen. Ash orders Charizard to quickly turn around and keep aiming at Entei. This time Ash's improvised combo hits Entei, sending it flying and Entei crashes into the stadium wall. Entei faints. Spinning Overheat/Blast Burn + Dragon Rush at supersonic speed = dead Entei. By the way, this is the best combo I have ever pictured for any Pokemon.

Lucario vs. Charizard - Lucario takes advantage of weakened Charizard, pushing Charizard to its limit. Charizard is almost on the verge of fainting, but Ash is determined "I can't lose". He flips his hat backwards and yells, "Charizard, I know you can do it". This triggers Charizard's ability - yes, Blaze. Charizard releases the most powerful Overheat/Blast Burn ever, obliterating Lucario, as well as demolishing the entire stadium. Lucario faints immediately, but Charizard is out of breath too, so he goes down too. The referee calls it a tie, as well as rendering the stadium unusable for the semi-final. Brock, who stacks a broad knowledge of Pokemon, comments "That must be the most powerful Blaze I've ever seen, surpassing Infernape's by many many times"
 
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Caseydia

Ace Trainer
It's amazing how many times people keep bring back the Takuto threads. However, for the posts that were made above me, Ash didn't know he was going to face legendaries. If he did he would have used Charizard like he always used to when going up against strong Pokemon. But using Charizard all the time isn't always a good idea just like using Infernape too much. People started complaining about Charizard in the past in Master Quest, then did it when Infernape was used alot. Plus having two fire Pokemon in Ash's team will never happen. It would be too many power wars.
 

pokemonloverXD

Ash's fangirl
I think Takuto would probably be using his third or maybe fourth legendary if Ash were to use that team but Ash would still loose in the end
 

Lunanight

Well-Known Member
it would STILL be the same result, ash would lose

If darkrai can sweep almost all of ash's team alone then even with his best pokemon, he would still lose 6-2, maybe 6-3.

fanboy's, get over it: charzard is no longer his strongest pokemon, in fact: he technically does not own it since he does not have it's pokeball anymore. the charzard trainer does, I think
 

ChaosMage

Izit cuz I is black?
How come people are STILL rabbiting on about Takuto having Lucario and Entei just because they appeared in the opening? You know, that opening in which he used Buizel against Darkrai? Reminds me of how annoyed I was when AG didn't end with Ash battling a trainer with an Arcanine, Skarmory, Gyarados, Aerodactyl and Aipom when "Spurt!" so bviously foreshadowed it! And we're still waiting on our Pikachu/Combusken VS Gardevoir/Hariyama battle too! Why would they put something in the opening which isn't going to be repeated in the show itself? Silly people.


I do agree that Ash didn't choose the best team he could have. Gible might have down well against Conway, but it really wasn't up to the challenge of Darkrai. Torkoal should have done better but they were screwed for time and had it go down quickly. Same with Swellow, who's meant to be an endurance demon.

Also, I will emphasise that Sceptile basically just got lucky. It woke up before Darkrai could really damage it, and then landed a killer hit with Leaf Blade. Charizard would have struggled to do the same, as Darkrai had such quick evasive skills and Charizard isn't nearly as agile as it would need to be. That's why Sceptile was the perfect choice, but it was still a hell of a lucky twist that it woke up before going the way of Heracross. If it was the only pokemon out of every gym leader and a total of 25(!) league opponents to take down Darkrai, then that's some pretty good going in itself.
 

poizonsting

Pokemon master
There's a good reason why Charizard and Snorlax wern't used in the Sinnoh League.

And what is that?

charzard is no longer his strongest pokemon, in fact: he technically does not own it since he does not have it's pokeball anymore. the charzard trainer does, I think

Since when Charizard is not Ash's strongest Pokemon? You can argue whether Sceptile, Pikachu, or Gible is the Ash's strongest Pokemon over Charizard, but Charizard is undeniably one of Ash's strongest.

Since when is it a fact that Ash doesn't technically own Charizard? Although he stays in the Valley, Ash is still his original trainer - not Liza - and still owns his Pokeball - this is evident when Ash takes out Charizard of his Pokeball against Claire and Brandon.

And for the love of Mojo jojo, if you're gonna bash a certain Pokemon, at least spell its name right. It's Charizard, say with me C-H-A-R-I-Z-A-R-D, not "Charazard" or "Charzard".
 
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Blazenuva

Well-Known Member
I am speculating that Takuto's team is full of Legendary Pokemon. Even if Ash had some kind of "all star" team (people can argue its members to death), the most I see happening is Ash losing but probably taking out another one or two of Takuto's Pokemon.
 

TheNewGuy

Well-Known Member
Taking into account the circumstances, the writers did a decent job with the Takuto battle. I don't believe the battle should ever have taken place, since Takuto is one of the worst plot devices in the show's history - and make no mistake, that's all he is: a plot device. The league-only rivals like Ritchie were also plot devices, but they had character and buildup at least. Takuto was just "here's a legendary trainer for Ash to lose against, and share maybe five lines of dialogue with". Terrible.

But like I said, the writers did a good job with it. Ash's team was selected based on Pokemon that had fought legendaries before, Heracross' type advantage and Gible's Draco Meteor (the last one is tenuous, but whatever). That's not completely awful reasoning and gives them license to have use "weaker" Pokemon like Torkoal and Gible, but based on "sound" reasoning - so you can at least put Ash getting curbstomped down to some of the Pokemon he used.

Thinking about it, they also measured established strength almost exactly. Torkoal is one of Ash's worst Pokemon and this held true in the battle vs. Darkrai, where it failed to land a single hit and was OHKOd; Sceptile, an established powerhouse, was the one who managed to KO Darkrai; Pikachu, in his typical end-of-arc power buff, tied with Latios. I'd say Swellow is the only Pokemon in that battle who was treated "harshly" based on their already established strength. It's no coincidence that the two Pokemon who scored KOs were Sceptile and Pikachu, Pokemon with established and genuine strength.

Now, I think for the purposes of this topic we have to ignore the fact that this is a TV show and the writers dictate everything and just say what would have happened if Ash had used Pokemon that had been established as stronger.

First off, Heracross can stay. Yes he lost, but Sleep Talk Heracross is one of the best Darkrai counters around and if I was Ash and I had a Sleep Talk Heracross that's exactly what I'd do as well. Perfectly understandable decision.

I wouldn't use Infernape. Too tired after battling Paul, even with the type advantage over Darkrai. However, Charizard can easily fill the fire-type quotient by replacing Torkoal without a problem.

Sceptile can also stay. A grass-type which is always nice to have, and his Hoenn powerhouse.

Pikachu can stay as well. Kind of a "clutch" Pokemon for Ash, works well. Beat a legendary before.

Gible's appearance in the battle was the most tenuous of all. He can easily be replaced by Snorlax - and remember, eating Snorlax's dreams only serves to piss it off. I could see something like Ash vs. Harrison happening here, where it beat Hypno after having its Dreams Eaten.

The last spot is a difficult spot to fill. However, I feel Staraptor's Close Combat could be a useful weapon vs. Darkrai. Swellow was a decent choice though. Glalie was another viable option, and since he lacked a water-type, he could also have used Squirtle.

Would the outcome be any different? Well, we saw Heracross lose easily. However, I think Charizard is stronger than Torkoal and Gible put together, so there's a possibility it could have beaten Darkrai. Sceptile or Snorlax could also come out second and weaken it, for Charizard to then finish it off (Sceptile also could do that, if Snorlax was sent out second). That leaves us with 4 on 5, or 5 on 5 if the second Pokemon was returned Ash's Charizard knows Dragonbreath, so it might be able to at least weaken Latios, allowing something else to beat it, like Pikachu or Glalie at a stretch.

Overall, it's a possibility that he could have won given the sheer power of some of the Pokemon Ash has at his disposal that he did not use, and the relative weakness of some of the ones he did (Charizard and Snorlax over Gible and Torkoal). However, a 6-2 loss is a massive deficit to overhaul, and it's very difficult to make an accurate judgement without knowing Takuto's full team.
 

No. 1 Machop Fan

Well-Known Member
I'm pretty sure Ash would've lost no matter what, unless MAYBE he used:

Pikachu
Charizard
Squirtle
Bulbasaur
Snorlax
Heracross

Pikachu, Charizard, Squirtle and Bulbasaur are the 'gang of four' that succeeded where Ash's other Pokemon had failed, by defeating Brandon. Snorlax and Heracross are also powerful pokemon who would no doubt have been great assets to Ash's team.
 
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