You need to interpret my words more carefully. Just because those Gabite, Drgonite, and Metagross I mentioned don't belong to Cynthia or Lance doesn't mean I'm implying that they are weak by default, nor have I said it anywhere. Pokemon like Salamence, Dragonite, Garchomp, Metagross are generally strong in the anime, but not as strong you were making them out to be (as in legendary status). Conclusion? Ursula's Gabite (why the heck would Urusla raise a weak Gabite anyway?), Tyson's Metagross are strong, but not in league of legendary/frontier brains/elite 4/champion.
Did anyone besides Chimchar battle Mismagius at all? No. Did Pikachu or Buizel land a hit against Drifblim? No
Did Anyone besides Chimchar battle Bronzor?
Do your homework first. Pikachu actually thunderbolted and paralyzed Drifblim. Although Drifblim shook off the effect of paralysis, it got hit by thunderbolt nonetheless, which dealt severe damage. Inconsistencey
Type advantage against Bronzor, and a pretty weak species overall. I know, I know, no need to get petty over type advantage
"Yeah but Gible never lost a battle without a single win like Buizel and the others did!!!!"
Did it really have the opportunity? It's only other battle that had a conclusion was against Barry's Empoleon and it LOST that.
It was Gible's FIRST match, goddammit. No need to bring out the Pokemon that had won their first match, but what were the odds that Gible actually had a chance against Empoleon? Empoleon is Barry's first Pokemon, and also his most used one. Did you really expect a newly caught, untrained Gible to win against a seasoned, well-trained Empoleon?
Finally, you admit it. You'll deny it again later though... meh.
No, I won't. And you can't show me either where I have denied it before.
You said Noctowl was considered weak in an earlier post inconsistency and you always say "it doesn't count unless the pokemon actually wins" inconsistency.
What does it matter if it was an evolved form of Dusclops? Earlier in this post you said pokemon's strength also depend on the trainer inconsistency.
Show me where I said Noctowl is weak, please! In one of my previous posts I even said Heracross can be replaced by Bulbasaur, Squirtle, or Noctowl depending on the situation, which means Noctowl has established its worth to be one of Ash's top 6 powerhouses. This is one of the other reasons where beating Dusknoir comes into play. On top of beating Shuckle, Gible beat a Pokemon that in turn beat one of Ash's strong Pokemon and Donphan.
Simply because of Shuckle's defense and Ash used strategy to defeat it, not Gible's raw power. It didn't actually defeat either of the pokemon. It even nailed Noctowl with a Power Trick'd Gyro Ball and it survived.
Who, when, how, what?...What is this? If it didn't beat either of the Pokemon, what did it do? I guess you'd say Gible ran around and tired them out, so they fainted out of exhaustion.
Hadn't Ash employed any strategy, he would have lost even if he used a Groudon.
Yes, based on the fact that a Dusclops took down the Messiah at one point. *Bows before the Duskull line*
It was mainly because of Ash's "rookie mistake", not Charizard's fault by any means. He gave it all to win for his trainer.
Wouldn't it be Volkner's considering they explicitly stated that he was the strongest Sinnoh Gym Leader?
Not only that, didn't they mention before that Volkner was undefeated ever since he became the gym leader? So Ash beating Volkner (along with Infernape taking down 2 of his Pokemon) did seem rather cheap as if the writers had forced those wins on Infernape. I was hoping that Ash would ultimately lose to Volkner, but he would give the badge to Ash nonetheless for the good/memorable battle.
Wha'? So you're saying just because Ash tied with Maylene her pokemon are suddenly almighty and vastly stronger than any other Gym Leaders?
Add to that, that's the only gym battle that was fair enough to bring down Chimchar's pride down to earth. *bows down before Lucario*
So you're judging Gible based on things it may or may not do in the future? It's ironic how things I point out here conflict with things you say later in this very post, but Snorunt was a late capture as well.
Like I said, it got the potential but there wasn't enough time in D/P to showcase them. Given the chances, Gible will be an established powerhouse.
So if braveness is a factor, why isn't he on the list then? If landing a hit against a legendary is so impressive, landing several against one must make Torkoal one of Ash's bests, no?
It depends on what kind of legendary. Greater or lesser legendary? I didn't call Gible as one of Ash's best just by judging its accomplishment of landing a hit on a legendary, but rather I also took into account of its other accomplishments - beating Dusknoir (which should count as 10 or more wins) and Shuckle.
Nope, never did. Only time they ever did that was when they said Mewtwo was the strongest pokemon in the world and, IIRC, that wasn't even present in the Japanese version.
Do you really believe Mewtwo has the same power level as a Heatran? Mewtwo is indisputably the most powerful and ruthless Pokemon. If you're still in doubt and think Mewtwo is on the same level as other legendaries, here are the Pokedex entries for ya"
"A Pokémon created by recombining Mew's genes. It's said to have the most savage heart among Pokémon."
"Because its battle abilities were raised to the ultimate level, it thinks only of defeating its foes."
"A vicious psychic Pokémon created by genetic engineering. Its cold, glowing eyes strike fear into its enemy."
Dialga created space, Groudon created earth, Kyogre created oceans, Palkia created time, but what's that say about their levels of battling prowess? Absolutely nothing. The idea of "uber" legendaries is a fanmade term for online play in the games, very similar to one you criticized earlier; "pseudo-legendaries." Cresselia seemed perfectly capable of holding it's own against that one Darkrai despite not being an "uber" and having a type disadvantage.
Cresselia is the lunar counterpart of Darkrai, so it makes sense if they are on the same level in the anime.
If you wanna be technical about it; Articuno is not considered an uber legendary. And Sceptile defeated a legendary it had a pure disadvantage against (Ice Beam.)
Inconsistencies and contradictions on so many levels. Sceptile might have had a move disadvantage against Darkrai, but certainly didn't have a type disadvantage
Now, the contradiction. I believe you said this:
Sceptile had a losing streak resembling Torterra's, possibly worse than Torterra's, at one point. It lost to a freakin' Luvdisc. [...] It also lost to Greta without a single win and a pokemon you just said "wasn't that great" (Snorlax) destroyed both of her pokemon with a type disadvantage to boot. [...]. It's win against Darkrai was undeniably pretty lame. You always go on about wins being handed to Infernape. Yeah, how about if a pokemon takes down a legendary in one hit? Don't even care that Gible and Heracross landed hits, that's still only three hits. That's less than what it takes to bring down most Gym Leader's pokemon. [...] It lost to Regirock, we can't just assume that it would have won had Ash not been possessed. Possessed or not Brandon could have used Lock-On and there wouldn't be a damn thing for Ash or Sceptile to do about it. It won against Claydol, but it had a type advantage and we ALL know that those battles don't count, right?
It was matched with Blaziken despite a type advantage but so what? May was a coordinator not a battler. Sure her pokemon were strong against other coordinators but she never had a chance to prove herself against a trainer prior to that battle. And being evolved to the final stage doesn't necessarily mean almighty, unrivaled power. I'd say Bulbasaur is still about even with Sceptile.
Told'a that post would come in handy for future reference
I've seen the light, you are right. Sceptile is by far Ash's strongest pokemon. Charizard's win against Articuno was pretty puny.
Neither are ubers =)
Sceptile da bomm
Seriously, you have problems interpreting things. When I said "Just to be clear, pseudo-legendary doesn't exist in the anime", what made you think I'd believe "uber" legendaries exist instead? That's why I said "If Darkrai is uber according to YOU
". Notice that I never said Darkrai is "uber" according to ME
. But in the anime, not all legendaries are treated the same, therefore there exist greater and lesser legendaries, just not the same as in competitive metagame. Entei, Suicune, Raikou represent the elements Fire, Water, and Electricity respectively. They roam around the land because of their great power
. Similarly Articuno, Moltres, and Zapdos represent 3 different seasons. In a nutshell, all these 6 Pokemon represent natural elements, and therefore, according to the "anime standard" should hold the place between Mewtwo and Darkrai (since you're comparing Sceptile's win against Darkrai to Charizard's win against Articuno and his valiant battle with Entei). What I'm trying to say is basically game tier system doesn't exist in the anime, rather anime has its own system to distinguish legendaries from greater to lesser. Entei and Articuno are obviously greater legendaries than Darkrai in the anime. Charizard beat Articuno single-handedly and fought valiantly with Entei without any fear, whereas Sceptile not only beat a lesser legendary than those two, it also got help from Gible and Heracross.
Conclusion: Charizard is just on a whole different level than Sceptile or any other Ash's Pokemon for that matter.
I actually like this one. You said "in my opinion." At least your not demanding everyone to agree with you and degrading anyone that doesn't. "OMG you don't think Charizard is Ash's best? How could you even compare it to that lowly pokemon?"
And I also said 100 times "It is my belief that Infernape is weak", but your friend here counters it with "INFERNAPE IS FACTUALLY STRONG, YOU ARE FACTUALLY WRONG" and other verbal attacks. Please enlighten me how it is any different than "demanding me to agree with him and degrading me if I don't". I think it's about time I take forceful measures too.
As much as this is true, I can't resist. His arguments are just so terrible, so easy to deconstruct, so fanciful...I won't stop until he does.
You are so desperate and aggressive at attacking me, that even a little appreciation to your point seems to be comforting to you. Figures.
I entirely agree Sceptile is one of Ash's top 6 Pokemon, but it has glaring record and quite frankly the rest of your selection is farcical. I'm really starting to believe you are either a troll or 9 years old. There is no other explanation for that double standard. I am tempted to counter-troll and put down every single one of Sceptile's wins, making it seem like a horrible Pokemon. I'd do a much better job of it than you do with Infernape, as well...mostly because I don't rely on pointless conjecture.
Whaaaat? Is this some kind of trick of yours to let my guard down, as you have employed it before as well? Seriously, show me a thread where I looked like I'm trolling. I have the rights to express myself, and just because I don't think like the way as you doesn't mean I'm trolling >.>
Welcome to NewGuy's guide to trolling: He who don't think like the way I do nor agree with me shall be trolling
I'll give you some examples of trolling:
sceptile is lame infernape would kill that stupid geeko
Poizonsting,J isn't overrated which is untrue and the huge image of Hunter J because of the internet fallacy is not true and it is your opinion which isn't facts at all,a lot of people do not think that J is a badass villain which is stupid non sense that isn't or ever was true to begin with,Hunter J was never a badass villain to start with and stop making things seem like facts when they really isn't.
Anyway, if you think Sceptile is "weak", go right ahead and feel free to express yourself. I won't even bother arguing against it as I've already said that to thunderblade. If it makes you happy to degrade Sceptile GO RIGHT AHEAD. I have nothing at stake to defend the cause of Sceptile anyway.