If Ash used different Pokemon against Takuto would the outcome be different?

[poizonsting]

Very clear on that. Pseudo-legendaries don't even exist in the game if you want to be technical about it. What's it hurt to pass that fanmade term along to the anime? Pokemon such as Garchomp, Dragonite, Salamence, and Metagross have all been shown to be very strong in the anime.

It depends on who those Pokemon belong to. Cynthia's Garchomp, Anabel's Metagross, and Lance's Dragonite are shown to be strong, but on the other hand, Ursula's Gabite lost to freaking Dawn, Paul beat a certain Dragonite with a puny Honchkrow in the Pokeringer competition, and Pikachu beat Tyson's Metagross.

Like I said, majority of Ash's team have defeated two pokemon in one battle at one point or another.

But Gible beating Conway's 2 Pokemon is very different. First off, Gible took down Conway's 2 Pokemon that were not weakened by any other Pokemon. Secondly, hate to say this, but Brandon's Dusclops beat Charizard. Although it was Ash's "rookie mistake" that cost him that defeat, Dusclops gave Charizard a run for its money nonetheless. In this context, Gible beat an evolved form of Dusclops (more powerful and which knocked out both Noctowl and Donphan), and on top of that it beat Shuckle (on which both Noctowl and Donphan failed to land any successful hit). So Gible's win over Dusknoir alone should count as 10 or more wins. Needless to say, Conway's Pokemon are more powerful than Sinnoh gym leaders' Pokemon, save for Maylene's (in case you get petty over how many gym leaders' Pokemon a certain Pokemon have beaten). Moreover, do you not realize that Gible was a late addition to Ash's Sinnoh team? And those battles it has had already prove it's a rising star on Ash's powerhouse team, although the majority won't take it for granted that Gible is an established powerhouse. Gible will surely shine, given the chances.

And I don't see how braveness plays into the equation. Torkoal was bave enough to fight two legendaries and that thing's a crybaby.

Torkoal was a crybaby as in being overemotional, but he ain't no p**** when it comes to battling.

Wa-wa-waiiiiit a minute. Glalie is weak now? The pokemon that thrashed two fire types solo at the Hoenn League? It also took down Morrison's star pokemon with a type disadvantage.

Never said Glalie is weak, but it's not an established powerhouse either. I just hope Gible doesn't get the same treatment as them.

Why?

1. Why?Why? You just got through saying that "pseudo legendaries don't exist" so why should these fan created "uber legendaries" exist either?
   
   I'm sure that in the anime they said in multiple occasions that certain legendaries are greater than others. Dialga certainly isn't on the same level as Regice, and Darkrai certainly isn't on the same level as Phione according to the "anime standard", for example. A certain Buneary was even able to beat a Phione.
   
   

   But how strong? It stopped an attack from an "uber" legendary effortlessly. That would put it at a higher level than the vast majority of Ash's pokemon with your logic.

   
   However, Ash's Pokemon actually beat legendaries. If you consider Darkrai to be uber legendary, Sceptile defeated it (yeah yeah, it got help from Gible and Heracross, no need to get petty about it). Ash also beat Articuno, has experience battling with Entei.
   
   
   Like you have done with all the Pokemon I have picked as Ash's top Pokemon, I can go on regurgitating about Snorlax in the same manner, but that won't change anything. Snorlax just doesn't cut it to be one of Ash's top 6 Pokemon, in my opinion.
   
   
   

   This seems an awfully forceful, aggressive way of saying this.
   
   Considering you criticised me in the other topic for "forcing my opinion down your throat"...it's almost as if you believe Sceptile's strength is a fact, eh poizonsting?
   
   In any case, I will take that post as an admission that everything I have ever said about Infernape must be 100% ok in your eyes, since there's very little difference between that and what I've been saying all along.

   
   Example of forceful, aggressive, and "forcing down an opinion onto others throat" approach:
   
   "<insert pokemon's name> IS FACTUALLY STRONG, YOU ARE FACTUALLY WRONG"
   
   or
   
   "ACCEPT IT, <insert pokemon's name> IS WEAK/STRONG"
   
   Sceptile has proven over time that it's strong, therefore Sceptile being one of Ash's powerhouse is a fact, whereas Infernape has not. Yeah sure, you would mold those statements to your convenience, but there is no admittance from my part or anything of that sort, other than the fact that Sceptile is strong enough to earn the place in Ash's top 6.Take that other thread into account as a reference, if you please. I don't want to go all through that in a thread that doesn't even specifically belong to Infernape.
   
   

   Well, since the question is answered, Im actually interested. After reading your initial post, WHY does Gible come into the frame then?
   
   Rock Smash?

   
   No.
   
   It's a late addition to Ash's team in Sinnoh, so it didn't get the required screentime for more battles/wins, but it definitely got the potential when it mastered Draco Meteor to beat Conway's 2 Pokemon. Not to mention it was brave enough to face Darkrai, and even land a hit on Darkrai to weaken it. I can clearly see there's a future for Gible. I don't think it's gonna be another Totodile or Glalie. It's about time Ash had a Dragon-type as his powerhouse.
   
   Plus, look up at my reply to thunderblade as to why only 2 wins made a huge impact in choosing Gible as one of Ash's top 6 powerhouse.

 

[Fa7e]

would have been the same considering he was just thrown in there so ash does not win, if ash used his best hell they would have probably gave him 6 Arceus

 

[Waterpokes]

Yeah... we're back into the debate again on "_____ are stronger then ______" & "_____ is criminally overrated" blah blah.

The outcome would have been the same, no matter what Pokemon Ash would use. He could throw in whatever Pokemon in there, and they would probably just lose like Torkoal and Heracross. Does it really matter? The battle sucked cause it was rushed, and just OHK-hits from Darkrai. And duo the rush, the Johto Pokemn was robbed from a battle. Even though Ash would most likely lose, the match-up would be different, but no, we got Ash's Hoenn Pokemon get OHK by Darkrai. Makes me realise how terrible the ending was.

Even though I do think that they were going to make a real match between Ash and Takuto. Like giving Heracross Sleep Talk might have forshadowed Heracross winning over Darkrai, and thus changing the match completely. Takuto would still win, but the who lost and stuff would be changed. I honestly think that the Takuto match would have been different, but duo rush, they made it OHK in all match-ups, except for Pikachu and Latios.

 

[thunderblade12]

It depends on who those Pokemon belong to. Cynthia's Garchomp, Anabel's Metagross, and Lance's Dragonite are shown to be strong, but on the other hand, Ursula's Gabite lost to freaking Dawn, Paul beat a certain Dragonite with a puny Honchkrow in the Pokeringer competition, and Pikachu beat Tyson's Metagross.

Every post you make creates inconsistencies with something you've said earlier. You're just going along with it at this point and changing your argument to fit the current situation.

Ursula's Gabite
Why shouldn't it lose to Dawn? She was using Mamoswine; a powerhouse in it's own right and it had a 4X type advantage. Don't even bother bringing up Pachirisu because it didn't get KOed in that battle; it's not the same. You bring up Sceptile vs Blaziken like it's supposed to impress people, but (1)Sceptile didn't actually win that battle and (2)It was trainer vs coordinator. So why does losing to ANOTHER COORDINATOR'S pokemon make Gabite weak? Oh, I forgot, Dawn is a character you don't like so we can safely attribute all of her wins to the opponents simply being weaklings.

Bias and Inconsistency

Tyson's Metagross
You said Pikachu was one of it's top pokemon, yet it defeating Tyson's Metagross makes Metagross weak? Inconsistency Also, Metagross had been weakened by Ash's other pokemon previously and Pikachu had only won through strategy on Ash's side; things you bring up when it comes to other battles. Inconsistency In fact, you bring it up in this very next quote Fail

But Gible beating Conway's 2 Pokemon is very different. First off, Gible took down Conway's 2 Pokemon that were not weakened by any other Pokemon.

Did Pikachu land a hit against Floatzel? No. Did Turtwig land a hit against Quagsire? Well... yes, but it just barely grazed it and Quagsire didn't even wince.

Did anyone besides Chimchar battle Mismagius at all? No. Did Pikachu or Buizel land a hit against Drifblim? No

Did Anyone besides Chimchar battle Bronzor? No. Did Buizel land a hit against Steelix? No.(And you'll go back to the arguements about Bronzor being unevolved that I shot down early. Notice you ignored trying to refute that argument BTW)

Just three examples. There are more.

"Yeah but Gible never lost a battle without a single win like Buizel and the others did!!!!"

Did it really have the opportunity? It's only other battle that had a conclusion was against Barry's Empoleon and it LOST that.

Secondly, hate to say this, but Brandon's Dusclops beat Charizard. Although it was Ash's "rookie mistake" that cost him that defeat, Dusclops gave Charizard a run for its money nonetheless.

Finally, you admit it. You'll deny it again later though... meh.

In this context, Gible beat an evolved form of Dusclops (more powerful and which knocked out both Noctowl and Donphan),

You said Noctowl was considered weak in an earlier post inconsistency and you always say "it doesn't count unless the pokemon actually wins" inconsistency.

What does it matter if it was an evolved form of Dusclops? Earlier in this post you said pokemon's strength also depend on the trainer inconsistency. Now you may say since Conway has eight badges he is on Brandon's level and able to take down his non-legendary pokemon, which could be true considering even Reggie defeated 6/7 of the Frontier Brains, but wasn't it you that said the Frontier Brains were stronger than the Elite 4 and Brandon is as strong as the Champion? Inconsistency

and on top of that it beat Shuckle (on which both Noctowl and Donphan failed to land any successful hit).

Simply because of Shuckle's defense and Ash used strategy to defeat it, not Gible's raw power. It didn't actually defeat either of the pokemon. It even nailed Noctowl with a Power Trick'd Gyro Ball and it survived.

So Gible's win over Dusknoir alone should count as 10 or more wins.

Yes, based on the fact that a Dusclops took down the Messiah at one point. *Bows before the Duskull line*

Needless to say, Conway's Pokemon are more powerful than Sinnoh gym leaders' Pokemon,

Yep, every trainer in the League, and League, has pokemon that are stronger than that of Gym Leaders. Next?

save for Maylene's

Wouldn't it be Volkner's considering they explicitly stated that he was the strongest Sinnoh Gym Leader?

(in case you get petty over how many gym leaders' Pokemon a certain Pokemon have beaten).

Wha'? So you're saying just because Ash tied with Maylene her pokemon are suddenly almighty and vastly stronger than any other Gym Leaders?

Moreover, do you not realize that Gible was a late addition to Ash's Sinnoh team? And those battles it has had already prove it's a rising star on Ash's powerhouse team, although the majority won't take it for granted that Gible is an established powerhouse. Gible will surely shine, given the chances.

So you're judging Gible based on things it may or may not do in the future? It's ironic how things I point out here conflict with things you say later in this very post, but Snorunt was a late capture as well.

Torkoal was a crybaby as in being overemotional, but he ain't no p**** when it comes to battling.

So if braveness is a factor, why isn't he on the list then? If landing a hit against a legendary is so impressive, landing several against one must make Torkoal one of Ash's bests, no?

Never said Glalie is weak, but it's not an established powerhouse either. I just hope Gible doesn't get the same treatment as them.

Winning several battles against trainers with 8+ badges each, most of which it has a disadvantage in? No, that'd be terrible. I'd never wish that on Gible or any other pokemon.

I'm sure that in the anime they said in multiple occasions that certain legendaries are greater than others.

Nope, never did. Only time they ever did that was when they said Mewtwo was the strongest pokemon in the world and, IIRC, that wasn't even present in the Japanese version.

Dialga certainly isn't on the same level as Regice,

Says who? Dialga created space, Groudon created earth, Kyogre created oceans, Palkia created time, but what's that say about their levels of battling prowess? Absolutely nothing. The idea of "uber" legendaries is a fanmade term for online play in the games, very similar to one you criticized earlier; "pseudo-legendaries." Cresselia seemed perfectly capable of holding it's own against that one Darkrai despite not being an "uber" and having a type disadvantage.

and Darkrai certainly isn't on the same level as Phione according to the "anime standard", for example. A certain Buneary was even able to beat a Phione.

Is Phione even a legendary? That's debatable. It wasn't even treated like a legendary, or anything special for that matter, in the anime. "Oh there's a freak baby of that one pokemon from Movie 9. And it and leak through sink faucets, what a gas."

However, Ash's Pokemon actually beat legendaries.

If you wanna be technical about it; Articuno is not considered an uber legendary. And Sceptile defeated a legendary it had a pure disadvantage against (Ice Beam.) Sure Articuno may have had Water Pulse, but it was a giant ice bird fighting a fire breathing lizard. We all know ice melts under extreme temperatures in the real world. Besides Chimchar vs Bronzor doesn't count even though Bronzor also had Rain Dance (to hurt Fire types on contact) and Heat Proof to make Chimchar's fire attacks only donormal damage. This is similar to that

I've seen the light, you are right. Sceptile is by far Ash's strongest pokemon. Charizard's win against Articuno was pretty puny.

Again your logic bites you in the foot, my friend.

If you consider Darkrai to be uber legendary, Sceptile defeated it

Uber. Lol

(yeah yeah, it got help from Gible and Heracross, no need to get petty about it).

Um........

*High pitched*
Um..............................................

*Higher pitched*
ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Pettiness: It's only okay if it benefits poisonstingz's point.

Did you just kinda forget how your main argument against Infernape or any other character you dislike is how they had help from others or how they had a type advantage? In fact you've used both arguments in these quotes at one point or another.

Just admitting your biased and saying the equivalent of "lalalala la, not listening, lalalala!" to everyone's counterarguments?

Ash also beat Articuno, has experience battling with Entei.

Neither are ubers =)

Sceptile da bomm

Like you have done with all the Pokemon I have picked as Ash's top Pokemon, I can go on regurgitating about Snorlax in the same manner, but that won't change anything. Snorlax just doesn't cut it to be one of Ash's top 6 Pokemon, in my opinion.

I actually like this one. You said "in my opinion." At least your not demanding everyone to agree with you and degrading anyone that doesn't. "OMG you don't think Charizard is Ash's best? How could you even compare it to that lowly pokemon?"

Example of forceful, aggressive, and "forcing down an opinion onto others throat" approach:

"<insert pokemon's name> IS FACTUALLY STRONG, YOU ARE FACTUALLY WRONG"

or

"ACCEPT IT, <insert pokemon's name> IS WEAK/STRONG"

I don't feel like searching, but you've said both at one point. Or at least something very similar.

Sceptile has proven over time that it's strong, therefore Sceptile being one of Ash's powerhouse is a fact,

Oh that's right, immediately after you get through preaching facts/opinions.

whereas Infernape has not.

Because poisonsting says so.

Congratulations Poizonsting, you managed to turn this thread Infernape debate. Bravo. TheNewGuy, thunderblade, you guys have great arguments, but he's not gonna listen to you, no matter how objective and logical (and right!) you are. If I were you, I just wouldn't bother- for the sake of the thread at least :S

This guy's right. It's impossible to snap people out of delusional bias.

/Done.

 

[Caseydia]

I think that even if his team was changed, the outcome would have been the same. The writers obviously don't want Ash to win anymore leagues than the OS.(which was the cheapest league ever) And they way things are going with BW, it seems that maybe the a Top 2 might happen this time. Sigh

 

[TheNewGuy]

This guy's right. It's impossible to snap people out of delusional bias.

As much as this is true, I can't resist. His arguments are just so terrible, so easy to deconstruct, so fanciful...I won't stop until he does.

Example of forceful, aggressive, and "forcing down an opinion onto others throat" approach:

"<insert pokemon's name> IS FACTUALLY STRONG, YOU ARE FACTUALLY WRONG"

or

"ACCEPT IT, <insert pokemon's name> IS WEAK/STRONG"

Example of a "forcing opinions down people's throat" approach:

you need to be blind to not see that Sceptile is one of Ash's strongest.

No worse than anything I have said. While I make NO apology for what I have said (Infernape being strong IS fact and you ARE wrong), you've always been the one farcically seeking to take the "moral high ground". You seem to think I use the "Infernape's strength is fact" thing as a way to make my opinion seem more forceful. Nothing of the kind, his strength is just outright fact. *shrug*

Sceptile has proven over time that it's strong, therefore Sceptile being one of Ash's powerhouse is a fact, whereas Infernape has not.

Sceptile has beaten less Gym Leader Pokemon than Infernape and lost to a Luvdisc, a far more embarrassing loss than any Infernape endured. If Sceptile's strength is fact than Infernape's is. You can't seperate the two.

(Note: I know Sceptile beat Claydol but it was with a type advantage. As t-blade said, you can't count those wins if you don't count wins for Infernape that come with type advantage. Sceptile's win over the (already weakened, but still) Darkrai was impressive and cemented his place among Ash's top Pokemon, no arguments from me there)

You're actually right, Sceptile's strength is fact, if that's what you're saying. But you can't take Sceptile's strength and call it fact and then not say the same about Infernape. Surely even you can acknowledge the massive double standard there? They're either both factually strong or neither of them are (hint: they both are).

Yeah sure, you would mold those statements to your convenience, but there is no admittance from my part or anything of that sort, other than the fact that Sceptile is strong enough to earn the place in Ash's top 6.Take that other thread into account as a reference, if you please. I don't want to go all through that in a thread that doesn't even specifically belong to Infernape.

I entirely agree Sceptile is one of Ash's top 6 Pokemon, but it has glaring record and quite frankly the rest of your selection is farcical. I'm really starting to believe you are either a troll or 9 years old. There is no other explanation for that double standard. I am tempted to counter-troll and put down every single one of Sceptile's wins, making it seem like a horrible Pokemon. I'd do a much better job of it than you do with Infernape, as well...mostly because I don't rely on pointless conjecture.

 

[streetlightdsb]

I am tempted to counter-troll and put down every single one of Sceptile's wins, making it seem like a horrible Pokemon. I'd do a much better job of it than you do with Infernape, as well...mostly because I don't rely on pointless conjecture.

As much as I wish these arguments would stop (won't somebody PLEASE think of the children?!) I would quite enjoy seeing that

 

[(P.O.K.E.M.O.N)]

sceptile is lame infernape would kill that stupid geeko

 

[Fa7e]

sceptile is lame infernape would kill that stupid geeko

lol i havent even used these forums in a while and when i come back you are STILL trolling every thread you can put Infernape RULEZ Sceptile SUX!!1!!

stfu, out of the 100+ times you have said that i dont even think you have given a single reason to why he is better, you need to be banned badly

 

[TheNewGuy]

Fa7e, obviously he's right. Why would you come in here and troll the thread?

Sceptile is a horribly weak Pokemon. You can't recover from losing to a Luvdisc. It's a crappy weakling that the writers tried to make look good because the kids like the design of the Sceptile family. So they gave it crap "wins", like over Claydol (it had type advantage and DEMd a new move), and Darkrai (already weakened and almost certainly on its last legs).

Terribly weak Pokemon.

 

[(P.O.K.E.M.O.N)]

and this was my first comment in thease forums for a long time it was just coincidence that you saw it and because i say sceptile sucks doesnt mean i get banned because its not a ban-able offense so in future regards you can go have a cry

 

[Dark M]

Fa7e, obviously he's right. Why would you come in here and troll the thread?

Sceptile is a horribly weak Pokemon. You can't recover from losing to a Luvdisc. It's a crappy weakling that the writers tried to make look good because the kids like the design of the Sceptile family. So they gave it crap "wins", like over Claydol (it had type advantage and DEMd a new move), and Darkrai (already weakened and almost certainly on its last legs).

Terribly weak Pokemon.

Oh really at least it didn't abuse the ability overgrow like what Infernape did with blaze.Correction Grovyle lost to Juan's Luvdisc.It was a water battlefield and Luvdisc had swift swim thus evading Grovyle's attacks.Not to mention Grovyle was also confused but no ash didn't switch out.Now on to Infernape,obviously the writers were running out of ideas so they remembered how Charizard was a hit thus making a clone aka Infernape.How sad little chimchar was treated like trash from its trainer and here comes Ash to the rescue lol.Infernape is weak and will always rely on blaze to win battles.Um no Darkrai didn't show any signs of being weakened even after getting hit by draco meteor and megahorn.It was still able to dodge leaf storm and counterattack with Ice Beam.I laugh at the fact that your calling Sceptile weak just because some dude is insulting Infernape lol.Where are all of these Infernape Fanbois coming from XD

 

[(P.O.K.E.M.O.N)]

excuse me dark m but your just a hoenn fanboy who likes the worst gen of pokemon and the worst pokemon in a region infernape only used blaze 4 times and only won the battle twice using it thats not over using

chimchar used blaze the battle ended because he couldn't control it
monferno used blaze even though a battle wasn't even on

infernape used blaze against luxray and electvire thats it thats not over using it you looser

and the writers wanted to give ash another powerhouse and a weak little sceptile wont cut it lol

 

[TheNewGuy]

You cannot excuse the loss to Luvdisc. Sceptile is a poor Pokemon. I will take the moral high ground here because it suits me, and tell you that you are entitled to your opinion. But suffice to say I believe Sceptile is a bit weak despite the "arguments" you place in front of me. Who says I need to be logical? I can just use conjecture to fill any logical gaps.

Your silly little counterargument to Luvdisc's win over Sceptile (I use Sceptile because everything might as well come under the Sceptile banner: I am not wrong and never make mistakes) was Sceptile's "confusion". This is ridiculous. If Sceptile/Grovyle/Whatever is as "strong" as you claim it should have been able to overcome the confusion and beat a weakling like Luvdisc. But no, it didn't, and it lost. That is terrible whatever way you slice it, it cannot be justified or written around.

Sceptile's inability to shake itself out of confusion against Juan also means that its defeat of Darkrai was a DEM. Here, Sceptile DID shake itself out of a status condition, something he couldn't do against Juan. But I have already prevented indisputable evidence that Sceptile is too weak to do that...it was just writer hax that allowed Sceptile to beat Darkrai, not its strength as a Pokemon. For some reason, the writers didn't just let that weakling faint when it should have done - after it got hit with Dream Eater or Ice Beam.

Stronger Pokemon like Swellow and Gible (and possibly Torkoal) should have starred in that battle, but no, the writers just HAD to try and make Sceptile look stronger than it really is.

 

[Lorde]

Let me put it this way: Ash could have used a team of Arceus and Takuto still would've won. Takuto was only ever created to troll beat Ash at the Lily of the Valley Conference. That's it. The writers had planned for the League ahead of time so they created a character who could defeat Ash quickly before he got too ahead in the competition, since Best Wishes was just around the corner and they couldn't afford to create more Sinnoh League episodes. The League really was more about Ash and Paul ending their rivalry so it makes sense that the battle between Ash and Takuto was rushed. Looks like the writing staff had a good reason to troll make stuff rushed this time, so I can't be too mad at them.

Also: take that Takuto! < I couldn't resist knocking him down a peg

 

[Fa7e]

Fa7e, obviously he's right. Why would you come in here and troll the thread?

Sceptile is a horribly weak Pokemon. You can't recover from losing to a Luvdisc. It's a crappy weakling that the writers tried to make look good because the kids like the design of the Sceptile family. So they gave it crap "wins", like over Claydol (it had type advantage and DEMd a new move), and Darkrai (already weakened and almost certainly on its last legs).

Terribly weak Pokemon.

obviously he is not, and he comes into every thread hes get a chance to and just says things like " Sceptile suck pokemon, infernape awsome is pokemon " he types like that to, hes a moron

please give me better reasons to why Sceptile is a horribly weak pokemon because those were not very good, just because he lost to a luvdisc that makes him automatically terrible WTF? and he was still a grovyle that doesnt prove ****, better yet, prove the point hes trying to make and tell me how the hell infernape is stronger than sceptile, and i think i have seen you arguing in other threads and you like to give wall of texts but please dont, i dont feel like arguing to much over this, i already posted enough in the " Just because infernape has blaze doesnt mean its his strongest pokemon " ( something like that ) thread, go look threw my posts on those before i start arguing over the same **** here

i think its a joke that that luvdisc battle means like everything to you, im going to watch it again tomorrow because i havent seen it in forever, i highly doubt its as terrible as you make it seem and if so who gives a ****? you have that much hate because of ONE battle

 

[(P.O.K.E.M.O.N)]

wow alot of swearing? maybe you should calm down?

 

[Fa7e]

well idk if ill be on the computer tomorrow so i might not be able to argue so ill just leave this

it honestly makes me so frustrated that people can think infernape is better than sceptile, i accually think you are an idiot that just gets excited seeing ape going super ape mode and dont even really think hard about it, sceptile has so much more experience, stuborness, skill, link with ash, everything than infernape
you may not think the claydol and darkrai victorys are impressive but what the hell has infernape done???? i would love to know, sceptile has faced opponents 1000 times harder, and its true he has been around longer and even got to be in alot of frontier battles, im not saying infernape doesnt have the potential to be just as good but he just hasnt been around as long and is not up to par with sceptile or ALOT of ash's older pokemon, look at the Flint battle, i know its an elite 4 but that still showed how not ready infernape is to face a really good trainer yet, infernape doesnt have like any recognizable wins and you may think neither does sceptile but its better than apes, hell if it wasnt paul ash was facing he probablly wouldnt have been as determined and not have even gone super ultra mega blaze monkey mode, just the fact that it was paul and he wanted to win so bad made him get up, if he didnt have blaze hands down he would have lost, we havent seen sceptile rely on overgrow at all really, i know its not infernapes fault he has blaze, but he cant always rely on that for opponents better than him (electivire),and the darkrai win, was impressive, it showed not only his bond with ash but showed its ENDURANCE ( WHAT NONE OF YOU LOOK AT ), look how fast darkrai knocked out ash's other pokemon and sceptile took 2 or 3 hits i believe, one being ice beam ( super effective ) and still got up and KO'd him, all you people look at is " O he was weak and thats why he KO'd him " ( btw he didnt look worn out at all to me ) really

and im not hating on ape, im just stating what i think is a FACT that sceptile is better and has alot more experience than infernape does, infernape is just a baby compared to him

Sceptile has proven to be a powerhouse on ash's team, infernape on the other hand, has not, maybe we will see in the Isshu league

ALSO the luvdisc loss, i just watched and wtf? that was far less embaressing than any of you make it out to be, it dodged a leaf blade, then used sweat kiss and ash didnt tell grovyle to move or aything, then he got hit, became confused or w/e ( DUH ) and got hit and lost..... not that bad? a normal loss, its a bad match up so he confuses it then KO's him, i dont see what you people are jizzing about

wow alot of swearing? maybe you should calm down?

stfu and let the big boys talk, your like a cheerleader

you dont even say ****, now you got someone in here backing you up even though you dont do anything because you are a dumbass, just go find yourself some new threads to say " Infernape is awsome, sceptile sux " or better yet just stop posting because you are a moron

 

[TheNewGuy]

I would say losing to a Pokemon such as Luvdisc puts you instantly on the back foot. You need a lot of genuinely good, convincing wins to get back on top and Sceptile just doesn't have them. Like I said, the wins vs. Darkrai and Claydol were awful - both were DEM, the writers "forcing" those wins onto Sceptile to make it look stronger. Presumably because kids love the Sceptile evolutionary line.

I don't particularly care about Infernape at this moment in time. Comparing the two constantly is irrelevant idiocy - I'm just putting forward the argument that Sceptile is horribly weak. Saying "but Infernape is also weak!!!111" means absolutely nothing to me in this context.

Like I said, the Darkrai win was horribly DEM and cannot be taken seriously or put forward as an argument. If Sceptile couldn't shake itself out of confusion it is a weak Pokemon. Why could it suddenly shake itself out of sleep? Because the writers decided to make Sceptile, a weak Pokemon, look stronger than it is.

Now I will get off the moral high ground because it suits me and tell you that you are factually wrong for saying Sceptile is any good.

 

[poizonsting]

Ursula's Gabite
...

Tyson's Metagross
...

You need to interpret my words more carefully. Just because those Gabite, Drgonite, and Metagross I mentioned don't belong to Cynthia or Lance doesn't mean I'm implying that they are weak by default, nor have I said it anywhere. Pokemon like Salamence, Dragonite, Garchomp, Metagross are generally strong in the anime, but not as strong you were making them out to be (as in legendary status). Conclusion? Ursula's Gabite (why the heck would Urusla raise a weak Gabite anyway?), Tyson's Metagross are strong, but not in league of legendary/frontier brains/elite 4/champion.

Did anyone besides Chimchar battle Mismagius at all? No. Did Pikachu or Buizel land a hit against Drifblim? No

Did Anyone besides Chimchar battle Bronzor?

Do your homework first. Pikachu actually thunderbolted and paralyzed Drifblim. Although Drifblim shook off the effect of paralysis, it got hit by thunderbolt nonetheless, which dealt severe damage. Inconsistencey

Type advantage against Bronzor, and a pretty weak species overall. I know, I know, no need to get petty over type advantage

"Yeah but Gible never lost a battle without a single win like Buizel and the others did!!!!"

Did it really have the opportunity? It's only other battle that had a conclusion was against Barry's Empoleon and it LOST that.

It was Gible's FIRST match, goddammit. No need to bring out the Pokemon that had won their first match, but what were the odds that Gible actually had a chance against Empoleon? Empoleon is Barry's first Pokemon, and also his most used one. Did you really expect a newly caught, untrained Gible to win against a seasoned, well-trained Empoleon?

Finally, you admit it. You'll deny it again later though... meh.

No, I won't. And you can't show me either where I have denied it before.

You said Noctowl was considered weak in an earlier post inconsistency and you always say "it doesn't count unless the pokemon actually wins" inconsistency.

What does it matter if it was an evolved form of Dusclops? Earlier in this post you said pokemon's strength also depend on the trainer inconsistency.

Show me where I said Noctowl is weak, please! In one of my previous posts I even said Heracross can be replaced by Bulbasaur, Squirtle, or Noctowl depending on the situation, which means Noctowl has established its worth to be one of Ash's top 6 powerhouses. This is one of the other reasons where beating Dusknoir comes into play. On top of beating Shuckle, Gible beat a Pokemon that in turn beat one of Ash's strong Pokemon and Donphan.

Simply because of Shuckle's defense and Ash used strategy to defeat it, not Gible's raw power. It didn't actually defeat either of the pokemon. It even nailed Noctowl with a Power Trick'd Gyro Ball and it survived.

Who, when, how, what?...What is this? If it didn't beat either of the Pokemon, what did it do? I guess you'd say Gible ran around and tired them out, so they fainted out of exhaustion.

Hadn't Ash employed any strategy, he would have lost even if he used a Groudon.

Yes, based on the fact that a Dusclops took down the Messiah at one point. *Bows before the Duskull line*

It was mainly because of Ash's "rookie mistake", not Charizard's fault by any means. He gave it all to win for his trainer.

Wouldn't it be Volkner's considering they explicitly stated that he was the strongest Sinnoh Gym Leader?

Not only that, didn't they mention before that Volkner was undefeated ever since he became the gym leader? So Ash beating Volkner (along with Infernape taking down 2 of his Pokemon) did seem rather cheap as if the writers had forced those wins on Infernape. I was hoping that Ash would ultimately lose to Volkner, but he would give the badge to Ash nonetheless for the good/memorable battle.

Wha'? So you're saying just because Ash tied with Maylene her pokemon are suddenly almighty and vastly stronger than any other Gym Leaders?

Add to that, that's the only gym battle that was fair enough to bring down Chimchar's pride down to earth. *bows down before Lucario*

So you're judging Gible based on things it may or may not do in the future? It's ironic how things I point out here conflict with things you say later in this very post, but Snorunt was a late capture as well.

Like I said, it got the potential but there wasn't enough time in D/P to showcase them. Given the chances, Gible will be an established powerhouse.

So if braveness is a factor, why isn't he on the list then? If landing a hit against a legendary is so impressive, landing several against one must make Torkoal one of Ash's bests, no?

It depends on what kind of legendary. Greater or lesser legendary? I didn't call Gible as one of Ash's best just by judging its accomplishment of landing a hit on a legendary, but rather I also took into account of its other accomplishments - beating Dusknoir (which should count as 10 or more wins) and Shuckle.

Nope, never did. Only time they ever did that was when they said Mewtwo was the strongest pokemon in the world and, IIRC, that wasn't even present in the Japanese version.

Do you really believe Mewtwo has the same power level as a Heatran? Mewtwo is indisputably the most powerful and ruthless Pokemon. If you're still in doubt and think Mewtwo is on the same level as other legendaries, here are the Pokedex entries for ya"

"A Pokémon created by recombining Mew's genes. It's said to have the most savage heart among Pokémon."
"Because its battle abilities were raised to the ultimate level, it thinks only of defeating its foes."
"A vicious psychic Pokémon created by genetic engineering. Its cold, glowing eyes strike fear into its enemy."

Dialga created space, Groudon created earth, Kyogre created oceans, Palkia created time, but what's that say about their levels of battling prowess? Absolutely nothing. The idea of "uber" legendaries is a fanmade term for online play in the games, very similar to one you criticized earlier; "pseudo-legendaries." Cresselia seemed perfectly capable of holding it's own against that one Darkrai despite not being an "uber" and having a type disadvantage.

Cresselia is the lunar counterpart of Darkrai, so it makes sense if they are on the same level in the anime.

If you wanna be technical about it; Articuno is not considered an uber legendary. And Sceptile defeated a legendary it had a pure disadvantage against (Ice Beam.)

Inconsistencies and contradictions on so many levels. Sceptile might have had a move disadvantage against Darkrai, but certainly didn't have a type disadvantage.

Now, the contradiction. I believe you said this:

Sceptile had a losing streak resembling Torterra's, possibly worse than Torterra's, at one point. It lost to a freakin' Luvdisc. [...] It also lost to Greta without a single win and a pokemon you just said "wasn't that great" (Snorlax) destroyed both of her pokemon with a type disadvantage to boot. [...]. It's win against Darkrai was undeniably pretty lame. You always go on about wins being handed to Infernape. Yeah, how about if a pokemon takes down a legendary in one hit? Don't even care that Gible and Heracross landed hits, that's still only three hits. That's less than what it takes to bring down most Gym Leader's pokemon. [...] It lost to Regirock, we can't just assume that it would have won had Ash not been possessed. Possessed or not Brandon could have used Lock-On and there wouldn't be a damn thing for Ash or Sceptile to do about it. It won against Claydol, but it had a type advantage and we ALL know that those battles don't count, right? It was matched with Blaziken despite a type advantage but so what? May was a coordinator not a battler. Sure her pokemon were strong against other coordinators but she never had a chance to prove herself against a trainer prior to that battle. And being evolved to the final stage doesn't necessarily mean almighty, unrivaled power. I'd say Bulbasaur is still about even with Sceptile.

Told'a that post would come in handy for future reference

I've seen the light, you are right. Sceptile is by far Ash's strongest pokemon. Charizard's win against Articuno was pretty puny.

Uber. Lol

Neither are ubers =)

Sceptile da bomm

Seriously, you have problems interpreting things. When I said "Just to be clear, pseudo-legendary doesn't exist in the anime", what made you think I'd believe "uber" legendaries exist instead? That's why I said "If Darkrai is uber according to YOU". Notice that I never said Darkrai is "uber" according to ME. But in the anime, not all legendaries are treated the same, therefore there exist greater and lesser legendaries, just not the same as in competitive metagame. Entei, Suicune, Raikou represent the elements Fire, Water, and Electricity respectively. They roam around the land because of their great power. Similarly Articuno, Moltres, and Zapdos represent 3 different seasons. In a nutshell, all these 6 Pokemon represent natural elements, and therefore, according to the "anime standard" should hold the place between Mewtwo and Darkrai (since you're comparing Sceptile's win against Darkrai to Charizard's win against Articuno and his valiant battle with Entei). What I'm trying to say is basically game tier system doesn't exist in the anime, rather anime has its own system to distinguish legendaries from greater to lesser. Entei and Articuno are obviously greater legendaries than Darkrai in the anime. Charizard beat Articuno single-handedly and fought valiantly with Entei without any fear, whereas Sceptile not only beat a lesser legendary than those two, it also got help from Gible and Heracross.

Conclusion: Charizard is just on a whole different level than Sceptile or any other Ash's Pokemon for that matter.

I actually like this one. You said "in my opinion." At least your not demanding everyone to agree with you and degrading anyone that doesn't. "OMG you don't think Charizard is Ash's best? How could you even compare it to that lowly pokemon?"

And I also said 100 times "It is my belief that Infernape is weak", but your friend here counters it with "INFERNAPE IS FACTUALLY STRONG, YOU ARE FACTUALLY WRONG" and other verbal attacks. Please enlighten me how it is any different than "demanding me to agree with him and degrading me if I don't". I think it's about time I take forceful measures too.

As much as this is true, I can't resist. His arguments are just so terrible, so easy to deconstruct, so fanciful...I won't stop until he does.

You are so desperate and aggressive at attacking me, that even a little appreciation to your point seems to be comforting to you. Figures.

I entirely agree Sceptile is one of Ash's top 6 Pokemon, but it has glaring record and quite frankly the rest of your selection is farcical. I'm really starting to believe you are either a troll or 9 years old. There is no other explanation for that double standard. I am tempted to counter-troll and put down every single one of Sceptile's wins, making it seem like a horrible Pokemon. I'd do a much better job of it than you do with Infernape, as well...mostly because I don't rely on pointless conjecture.

Whaaaat? Is this some kind of trick of yours to let my guard down, as you have employed it before as well? Seriously, show me a thread where I looked like I'm trolling. I have the rights to express myself, and just because I don't think like the way as you doesn't mean I'm trolling >.>

Welcome to NewGuy's guide to trolling: He who don't think like the way I do nor agree with me shall be trolling

I'll give you some examples of trolling:

sceptile is lame infernape would kill that stupid geeko

Poizonsting,J isn't overrated which is untrue and the huge image of Hunter J because of the internet fallacy is not true and it is your opinion which isn't facts at all,a lot of people do not think that J is a badass villain which is stupid non sense that isn't or ever was true to begin with,Hunter J was never a badass villain to start with and stop making things seem like facts when they really isn't.

Anyway, if you think Sceptile is "weak", go right ahead and feel free to express yourself. I won't even bother arguing against it as I've already said that to thunderblade. If it makes you happy to degrade Sceptile GO RIGHT AHEAD. I have nothing at stake to defend the cause of Sceptile anyway.