• Be sure to join the discussion on our discord at: Discord.gg/serebii
  • If you're still waiting for the e-mail, be sure to check your junk/spam e-mail folders

If Bulbasaur & Squirtle had evolved in S1, would they've become disobedient?


Its almost time
This was something I've seriously always pondered ever since I was a child. I knew the reason Ash couldn't get his Charizard under control back then, he was a terrible Pokemon trainer and could only handle the "Cute, Little Poke-Pals" like Pikachu, Bulbasaur and Squirtle. I mean, seriously, the fact that he sent Pokemon like Muk and Tauros, who certainly don't fit the bill of "Cute, Little Poke-Pals" straight to Professor Oak's house kinda backs this up. For heavens sake, before Charmander even evolved, the only fully, evolved Pokemon Ash had was Butterfree, which was a "Cute, Little Poke-Pal." He also had a Primeape, which was disobedient at first, who wasn't, well you get the idea.

So what if Bulbasaur and Squirtle had ended up evolving? The frank truth is all three of the starters had arrogance problems and all three of them were abandoned by previous trainers (it was just that we got to see only Charmander's original trainer that it was so important to Charizard's growth) and all three were ridiculously strong… It all seems to add up.

This could also partly be what influenced Bulbasaur to deny its evolution. It already knew Ash was struggling with Charizard at the time that he too, would become to powerful for Ash and become disobedient simply due to Pokemon nature. It was like for some reason, when you're a "Cute, Little Poke-Pal", you don't become disobedient.

It was just too bad Ash didn't just learn to train his Pokemon. He could have ended up impressing everyone at the Kanto League rocking out a full team of Venusaur, Blastoise, Charizard, Pidgeot, Primeape, Pikachu, and etc.


Well-Known Member
What CyberCubed said.


Well-Known Member
Definitely not, basically because of what's been already said. Besides, your reasoning about Muk and Tauros seems strange considering neither of them ever had any problems with Ash. Muk and Kingler even pulled their weight in the Indigo League before Charizard started listening to Ash. And Pidgeot certainly retained its respect for Ash after evolving. So I don't think it's fair to assume that all tough looking evolved pokemon would've disobeyed him back then.

BTW, pretty sure Bulbasaur wasn't abandoned, it was just a really caring wild Pokemon that helped take care of injured and abandoned ones. Could be wrong, though.
Last edited:


Its almost time
If it was so, better Ash would leave his dream of being Pokémon master. Half of team doesn't listen to you, what's the point of trying anyway?

It would have inspired Ash to do better, something he CHOSE not to do for Charizard, because hey, he still has the "Cute, Little Poke-Pals."
What does it matter? Ash is not a real person, even when Ash is at his best like in DP the writers find a way to screw him over. See Tobias in the Sinnoh league who was only created because Ash was too strong to lose a league so they pulled out a legendary user.

Even if Ash had Venusaur, Blastoise and Charizard at the Indigo league, the writers would find some way to make him lose...as seen as how stupidly he lost to Richie.


Misty Come Back!
It wasn't stupid that he lost to Richie. He used his pokemon that was disobedient. However, I always just thought it was more of a personality thing for Charizard rather than a high level or evolution thing. Charizard was disobedient while still a Charmeleon. Ash had a Bayleaf that obeyed him no problem, along with a handful of other second form Pokemon.

What was always so cool about Charizard back in the day was that he as his own person so to say. He didn't need no stinkin 10 year old kid to boss him around. And that made their bonding moment even stronger when Charizard did finally learn to respect and appreciate Ash!


Pokemon master
I dont know about being disobedient but Ash would have gone further or even beaten the league

Pokegirl Fan~

I would have liked to see them evolve, but I doubt they would have become disobedient, that would kinda make Ash look like a lousy trainer, and they were already doing that storyline with Charizard, I think having 3 disobedient Pokemon in that short season would have been too much.


Team Rocket's Enemy
I don't think that they would have become disobedient. The main reason why Charizard, or rather Charmeleon, became disobedient was because in his first battle as a Charmeleon, Ash told him to throw a fight against a Pokémon that he had a quadruple type advantage against. Ash was already a newbie, so being ordered to throw a fight like that was basically the tree that broke the camel's back. If his first battle had been against a strong Pokémon and Ash told him to go all out, he probably would have respected Ash more and if there were questionable orders, he may or may not have obeyed directly, but he still would have fought and it would not have taken so long for them to get along and become friends. As for Bulbasaur and Squirtle, I get the impression that Squirtle would be pretty easy going even as a Wartortle or Blastoise, as would Bulbasaur, who mediates arguments between Pokémon at the ranch. If they had a disagreement with Ash, they would let him know through something other than an attack to his face and they would hash it out and get on the same page far faster than Ash did with Charizard.


Well-Known Member
Its a moot point, but being disobedient towards Ash just wouldn't have suited Bulbasaur's personality. It wasn't in its nature.

Squirtle was perhaps a bit more of a free spirit, but again he wouldn't be disobedient towards Ash.

Tom Nook

Feel free to browse
It wouldn't have happened.

Ash got all three starter Pokémon because they were popular and marketable in the first place. The same logic is why Charmander evolved and the others did not, since Charizard has always been above the other evolutions in that regard (even in this era it got two Mega-Evolutions when the other start evolutions got just one). To compensate for giving Ash a Pokémon that the audience would expect him to always win with the disobeying excuse was applied. For better or worse the others were never going to evolve and if they had then an ongoing storyline would not have been given to a second character.

Ash was never winning the Indigo League once the series was no longer ending with that saga. It may not have happened even if it had. That fact isn't for meaningful reasons in-universe, only for ones outside of it.
No way the Squirtle Squad would ride again except now Blastoise would be on a Fatboy :) jus for lolz


Brock and Misty!
Well I doubt it. Not every pokemon has got to be a total *******. So no. I don't really think so.


Too old for your rubbish..
I still believe that the only reason Charmeleon lost respect for Ash, was because he got asked to go easy on an opponent (Paras). I imagine that if this situation had not occurred and Ash had simply ordered a Flamethrower to annihilate it, they probably would've got along much better..

The whole "flamethrower to the face" thing was more of a character trait and gag, than a sign of disobedience. This is backed up by the fact he still does it even though they're practically best buds..
Maybe Squirtle might have been a little but Bulbasaur wouldn't have if it evolved, Bulbasaur is one of Ash's most loyal Pokemon in all of the Pokemon series. Ash's Bulbasaur's nature wasn't that of a rebellious or disobedient Pokemon.


Holding a Moon Shard
Maybe Squirtle might have been a little but Bulbasaur wouldn't have if it evolved, Bulbasaur is one of Ash's most loyal Pokemon in all of the Pokemon series. Ash's Bulbasaur's nature wasn't that of a rebellious or disobedient Pokemon.

In my mind it was certain that Squirtle would not evolve. I agree Squirtle might have given Ash some trouble but never Bulbasaur.


Well-Known Member
Of course not... Charizard was another trainers pokemon in the first place. His other starters would definitely obey him. I hope they evolve in any of the future eps! :)