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If you were to replace Agatha's 2nd Gengar

What Pokemon fits as Agatha's 6th and 2nd Gengar's replacement

  • Ninetales

    Votes: 7 53.8%
  • Kantonian Marowak

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Hypno

    Votes: 3 23.1%
  • Parasect

    Votes: 3 23.1%
  • Tentacruel

    Votes: 4 30.8%
  • Other Poison Type (specify)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Other Pokemon (specify)

    Votes: 1 7.7%

  • Total voters
    13

Lord Godwin

The Lord of Darkness
So as much as I like 99% of the Teams Let's Go gave to trainers and how much it improved Gen 1 Teams the only 2 Teams I did not like were Blue's and Agatha's.
Blue for it being to similar to Lance (Charizard, Gyarados, Aerodactyl) and not giving him at least 1 Ground Type (Sandlash seems a fitting match, Rhydon might be a choice but none of the Starter trainers - Trace, Red, Blue, Green used a Pokemon which leter got an evolution), maybe instead of Aerodacytl as 2 flying types are enough and all Starter trainers have a Grass, Fire and Water Pokemon, one might discuss switching Gyarados with something else to give him some more type variaty (maybe the Water/Rock fossil opposite to the one you choose?). I also don't like Trace having the Slowbro since Lorelei had one. A Kingler would've worked much better, IMO.

My main problem with Agatha is giving her 2 Gengars. I believe there are few Pokemon which could fit her theme and give her some more options. I have added some poll options I see well working:
1. Ninetales - associated with Ghost-types, has a mysterious aura around it and is quite strong
2. Kantonian Marowak - mostly due to the Marowak Ghost and later Alolan Marowak. Prefer Ninetales as Trace already has a Marowak
3. Hypno - has a quite sinister aura around it. Also uses many Dream-related moves (like Nightmare) and was not used by Sabrina in her initial battle. I think it would've worked well with Agathat
4. Parasect - The Zombie-like relation it gives works for a Ghost specialist. Also the only Grass type line not used by any other significant trainer until Erika's rematch
5. Tentacruel - another quite sinister Pokemon, quite strong and also most Agatha's Pokemon are Poison Types so Tentracuel might make sense. Also as Koga does not have one in initial battle it would work well with Agatha
6. Any other Poison type (let it be Golbat, Venomoth, Muk, Beedrill, one of the Nidos, there's a lot to choose from). Please specify which
7. Any other Pokemon - whatever you believe works and is not listed above (please specify which, though):)
 

Ishiftyounot

The Meme Supreme
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These two got my vote, partially because I had plans to re-design both Pokemon to fit an updated Kanto (would've made Hypno a Psychic/Dark type, and Parasect a Bug/Ghost type) and partially because neither are actually used by an important trainer in Kanto despite Erika/Sabrina existing. I'd personally pick Hypno over Parasect for Agatha since it feels like a stronger Pokemon that an Elite 4 member would use, alongside how sinister it feels.
 

Lord Godwin

The Lord of Darkness
Isnt she a Ghost type specialist?
In lore -yes. All her Team members are Poison.

It's like Flying Champion Lance.

Giving her 2 Gengars seems just lame in Let's Go. Hence this thread.
 

Ishiftyounot

The Meme Supreme
Oh thats super weird.
Why classify her as a Ghost type user when she isnt one?
Kanto was weird, with type specialists not really having full teams with Pokemon of their type. Sabrina (the Psychic specialist) uses Venomoth over Hypno/Starmie/Slowbro/Exeggutor/Jynx, Bruno uses 2 Onix rather than Poliwrath or Primeape, Lorelei is an Ice specialist despite only 4 Ice type evolutionary lines existing (she has Slowbro, which is not an Ice type), Agatha is a Ghost specialist in a region that only has the Gengar line falling under that type and Lance is a Dragon specialist when only the Dragonite line falls under that type. Why this is the case I do not know - I assume they wanted the Elite 4 to be the rarest types (which were seen to be the most powerful) rather than types which can actually have fully functioning teams? Beats me.

Bug / Flying / Normal are the only original Gen I types without a specialist (hence they're the first three gyms in Johto) and each type has enough Pokemon for a full or near-enough full squad. With that in mind, I'd swap the type specialists in Kanto to this:

Normal - Jigglypuff, Raticate
Water - Psyduck, Starmie
Grass - Paras, Gloom, Weepinbell
Bug - Beedrill, Butterfree, Pinsir
Poison - Muk, Weezing, Golbat, Arbok
Electric - Magneton, Electrode, Raichu, Electabuzz
Fire - Rapidash, Ninetales, Magmar, Arcanine
Ice - Jynx, Cloyster, Dewgong, Lapras

Fighting - Poliwrath, Primeape, Hitmonlee, Hitmonchan, Machamp
Psychic - Mr. Mime, Slowbro, Exeggutor, Hypno, Alakazam
Flying - Gyarados, Aerodactyl, Dodrio, Scyther, Dragonite
Ground - Nidoking, Onix, Sandslash, Marowak, Golem

Normal gives all 3 starters a neutral match-up, Water/Grass/Fire/Poison/Electric/Ice are still specialists just mixed up in order, Bug is added as a mid-game challenge since Bugs start feeling a bit weaker by this point in-game anyway. Let's Go did improve these type specialists a bit (gaining 2 Ice types, 1 Dragon type and 1 Ghost type) but it's still not quite enough.
 

janejane6178

Kaleido Star FOREVER in my heart <3
Kanto was weird, with type specialists not really having full teams with Pokemon of their type. Sabrina (the Psychic specialist) uses Venomoth over Hypno/Starmie/Slowbro/Exeggutor/Jynx, Bruno uses 2 Onix rather than Poliwrath or Primeape, Lorelei is an Ice specialist despite only 4 Ice type evolutionary lines existing (she has Slowbro, which is not an Ice type), Agatha is a Ghost specialist in a region that only has the Gengar line falling under that type and Lance is a Dragon specialist when only the Dragonite line falls under that type. Why this is the case I do not know - I assume they wanted the Elite 4 to be the rarest types (which were seen to be the most powerful) rather than types which can actually have fully functioning teams? Beats me.

Bug / Flying / Normal are the only original Gen I types without a specialist (hence they're the first three gyms in Johto) and each type has enough Pokemon for a full or near-enough full squad. With that in mind, I'd swap the type specialists in Kanto to this:

Normal - Jigglypuff, Raticate
Water - Psyduck, Starmie
Grass - Paras, Gloom, Weepinbell
Bug - Beedrill, Butterfree, Pinsir
Poison - Muk, Weezing, Golbat, Arbok
Electric - Magneton, Electrode, Raichu, Electabuzz
Fire - Rapidash, Ninetales, Magmar, Arcanine
Ice - Jynx, Cloyster, Dewgong, Lapras

Fighting - Poliwrath, Primeape, Hitmonlee, Hitmonchan, Machamp
Psychic - Mr. Mime, Slowbro, Exeggutor, Hypno, Alakazam
Flying - Gyarados, Aerodactyl, Dodrio, Scyther, Dragonite
Ground - Nidoking, Onix, Sandslash, Marowak, Golem

Normal gives all 3 starters a neutral match-up, Water/Grass/Fire/Poison/Electric/Ice are still specialists just mixed up in order, Bug is added as a mid-game challenge since Bugs start feeling a bit weaker by this point in-game anyway. Let's Go did improve these type specialists a bit (gaining 2 Ice types, 1 Dragon type and 1 Ghost type) but it's still not quite enough.
Thank you for the detailed answer.
It is always nice to learn more about Pokemon
 

Ishiftyounot

The Meme Supreme
Thank you for the elaborated answer.
It is always nice to learn more about Pokemon
No worries! Things like this always fascinate me, so threads like this naturally pique my interest. Kanto kind-of carries the old Gen I thought process behind things, which is very different to now! Heck they were gonna end Pokemon after Johto but then we got Gen III/Hoenn and now here we are. Kanto even got re-imagined with Let's Go updating teams with the rival, Red/Blue/Green battles and the gym leaders/Elite 4. It's fascinating.
 

Luthor

Well-Known Member
There's a few Options. One thing I note about the Kanto elite 4 is they are essentially dual type trainers. Lorelei is really an ice/water trainer, Bruno is really a Fighting/Rock type trainer, Lance is a Dragon/Flying (at least originally) and obviously Agatha is a Ghost/Poison. For me in these games Alolan Marowak does make sense but they seem to have decided to only add the Alolan forms to the rematches. The issue is that Lance at least has Pokemon that are Dragon like but Agatha struggles given the Kanto limitations (and she uses a lot of the Pokemon i'd suggest). I'd probably only make one change with the currently available options in Kanto. In the rematches what I'd do is have one of her Gengar have the ability to Mega evolve. That way the two Gengar feel different. I would also be ok with them adding the Alolan forms earlier.
 
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Lord Godwin

The Lord of Darkness
There's a few Options. One thing I note about the Kanto elite 4 is they are essentially dual type trainers. Lorelei is really an ice/water trainer, Bruno is really a Fighting/Rock type trainer, Lance is a Dragon/Flying (at least originally) and obviously Agatha is a Ghost/Poison. For me in these games Alolan Marowak does make sense but they seem to have decided to only add the Alolan forms to the rematches. The issue is that Lance at least has Pokemon that are Dragon like but Agatha struggles given the Kanto limitations (and she uses a lot of the Pokemon i'd suggest). I'd probably only make one change with the currently available options in Kanto. In the rematches what I'd do is have one of her Gengar have the ability to Mega evolve. That way the two Gengar feel different. I would also be ok with them adding the Alolan forms earlier.
My problem with Agatha getting M-Gengar is that it will make people complaining half od E4 have them and half don't. Giving one to Lance works lore wise to show he has the Champion potential.

Another option would've been giving Megas to all Kanto E4 since Lorelei has a Slowbro and Agatha Gengar. The only problem is Bruno who does not have a Pokemon capable of Mega Evolving. One might argue one can take his Onix or leave him only with the Hormon you did not choose and replace it with a Pinsir as I think it matches him the most of Kanto Pokemon capable of Mega Evolving.
 

Luthor

Well-Known Member
My problem with Agatha getting M-Gengar is that it will make people complaining half od E4 have them and half don't. Giving one to Lance works lore wise to show he has the Champion potential.

Another option would've been giving Megas to all Kanto E4 since Lorelei has a Slowbro and Agatha Gengar. The only problem is Bruno who does not have a Pokemon capable of Mega Evolving. One might argue one can take his Onix or leave him only with the Hormon you did not choose and replace it with a Pinsir as I think it matches him the most of Kanto Pokemon capable of Mega Evolving.

You're not wrong it is less elegant than I'd prefer. For me I would accept the complaints given that she's a much more experienced trainer than Lorelei and Bruno. But yeah in a better scenario where there was any gen 1 fighting type mega (or any other rock type mega that's not Aerodacytl) i'd give all 4 Megas.
 

Lord Godwin

The Lord of Darkness
You're not wrong it is less elegant than I'd prefer. For me I would accept the complaints given that she's a much more experienced trainer than Lorelei and Bruno. But yeah in a better scenario where there was any gen 1 fighting type mega (or any other rock type mega that's not Aerodacytl) i'd give all 4 Megas.
That's why I'm opting for giving him a Pinsir as he is a strong Pokemon with many fighting-type moves and a Mega.
Another possibility is Kangaskhan but Pinsir looks more like a Bruno-like Pokemon.

If only LGPE had cross-gen evolutions Mega Steelix would've been on the table.

Going into bizzare there is a fighting-type Mega - Mega Mewtwo X :D
 

Yveltal91057

Galarian Rapidash is amazing
Agatha should have had a Tentacruel on her team instead of having a second Gengar in both RBY and LGPE.
 

Lucariomen

Well-Known Member
I would give her any Kalos Ghost types, cuz they are splendid
While I agree a lot with that sentence, she's a KANTO gym leader. She doesn't have access to the exotic Kalosian Pokémon. But if she had, boy would I be glad!

In a similar note assuming Agatha can get other-generation Pokémon, Mismagius would fit her to a T.
 

Bolt the Cat

Bringing the Thunder
In lore -yes. All her Team members are Poison.

It's like Flying Champion Lance.

Giving her 2 Gengars seems just lame in Let's Go. Hence this thread.

Sticking to the pitiful variety of the first 151 seems just lame in 2018 when other Pokemon games have had more than twice that number for like, 10 years. They have more than enough Ghost types in the National Dex to give her a solid team of Ghosts but they refuse because "MUH NUHSTALHJUH!". Trying to think up a good Ghost type team in a regional dex that lacks Ghosts just feels like a pointless exercise when a far better solution would be to just expand the damn Kanto Dex. Adding in Ghosts from later generations like Misdreavus or Sableye or Drifloon (as well as other types that are lacking like Dragon, Ice, Dark, Steel, and Fairy) would do more for Kanto than almost everything from every past Kanto game combined.
 
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TwilightBlade

Well-Known Member
What was so bad about her having 2 Gengar? Both made sense for her team because she sticks to Ghost types and Poison types in all the core games she's in.

If I had to choose I would replace one with Ninetales but Tentacruel would make more sense if we're thinking strictly about types.
 

Leonhart

Imagineer
I don't have a problem with major characters owning two members of the same species on their teams, but I suppose that in this case Dokukurage (Tentacruel) would make a decent replacement for Gangar.
 

Bolt the Cat

Bringing the Thunder
What was so bad about her having 2 Gengar? Both made sense for her team because she sticks to Ghost types and Poison types in all the core games she's in.

It makes the battles repetitive, boring, and easy. Having a diverse range of species makes it harder for you to sweep the battle with just one Pokemon and just plain makes the fight more interesting.
 
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