I'm new: RMT plox?

[Rhys29]

I was wondering if you guys could rate my team? Plz? Go easy on me!

At a Glance
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Tyranitar@Leftovers
Hasty, Sand Stream
124 Att, 140 Sp.A, 244 Spe
- Fire Blast
- Ice Beam
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge

I wanted my first team to be about the guy everyone hates, Tyranitar. He's really really strong, and I found this set that looked good. I want my team to support him and help him get the sweep. I have not decided yet exactly what type of Tyranitar it should be, and I was considering making him something called a "Tyraniboah" or a Choice Band set. Anyone got any ideas?

Jirachi@Leftovers
Naive, Serene Grace
252 Hp, 80 Def, 176 Sp.D
- Wish
- U-Turn
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic

I needed a more supportive role and a Wish Passer would do my team some good. U-Turn and Wish are staple but I am still trying to get just the right moves for the last two slots.

Mamoswine@Choice Band
Adamant, Snow Cloak (just in a case and Oblivious sucks)
32 Hp, 252 Att, 228 Spe
- Ice Shard
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Superpower

Mamoswine will help me in dealing with Hail teams and is harder to wall than Heracross. Lots of attack and speed set to outrun Adamant Scizor since there's no point in attempting a speed tie. Obviously the moves that are coming into season right now and gives me pretty dang good coverage. Should I make him LO or not?

Starmie@Leftovers
Timid, Natural Cure
236 Hp, 72 Sp.A/Def, 200 Spe
- Rapid Spin
- Recover/HP-Fire
- Thunderbolt
- Surf

Basic SpinStar. Deals with EH's and such and has good coverage. Since Scizor switches in on the RS, I am wondering if I should just give him HP-Fire and go use Wish Passing with him. Also wondering if I should be making him defensive or a little more offensive.

Gliscor@Leftovers
Impish, Sand Veil
244 Hp, 188 Def, 76 Spe
- Roost
- Earthquake
- Agility
- Baton Pass

Gliscor seems like a decent physical wall and I think he would work with this team. Roost is for HP since he will probably be taking some heavy damage and he'd need to heal up. Earthquake is the best move I can really give him and it's a good STAB. I can Baton Pass Agility across to my teammates, mostly my beloved Tyranitar though. Can I make him better?

Cresselia@Leftovers
Bold, Levitate
92 Hp, 252 Def, 164 Sp.A
- Ice Beam
- Charge Beam
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

This guy is really the only way to deal with Mence and Mamo effectively. I have the Sp.A so that it will OHKO a 80 Hp Salamence every time. Works okay, could use some feedback.

~#~#~
I would appreciate any feedback, thnx you guys!!!

 

[kinder surprise]

Gliscor should be Jolly with 216 Spe EVs so it can switch in on Lucario if you can avoid Ice Punch, seeing as it runs through your entire team.

The Heracross is doomed to iminent failure due to its inabilty to take hits from Heatran, Zapdos, Salamence, Gyarados while Heatran the only of the aforementioned that will take any considerable damage. Being set up bait to something as common and dangerous as Mence or Gyara is a good way to ensure losses by big margins.

Modest won't work on Empoleon due to the unfortunate circumstance of only achieving a speed tie with CS Tran after an Agility, It's sad that there is only one point in it really.

OK Grass Knot v HP Electric, on most water types Grass Knot is around the 100-120 mark, much more powerful then a HP Electric, Gyarados will be KO'ed with SR up after the petaya boost.

 

[Rhys29]

Gliscor should be Jolly with 216 Spe EVs so it can switch in on Lucario if you can avoid Ice Punch, seeing as it runs through your entire team.

Jirachi outruns Luke, so there's no point in getting another poke faster than it. It can just switch in on SD and OHKO with Fire Punch.

The Heracross is doomed to iminent failure due to its inabilty to take hits from Heatran, Zapdos, Salamence, Gyarados while Heatran the only of the aforementioned that will take any considerable damage. Being set up bait to something as common and dangerous as Mence or Gyara is a good way to ensure losses by big margins.

yeah, 1) Heatran doesn't switch in on Heracross unless it has a very good reason to do so (ex: it is Banded and using Megahorn). 2) Vappy handles Salamence. 3) Vappy can handle Gyara pretty easily to some extent. 3) Zapdos can't do anything useful to T-Tar who can OHKO with Stone Edge. Even when you listed all these "weaknesses" you didn't give me a way around it.

Modest won't work on Empoleon due to the unfortunate circumstance of only achieving a speed tie with CS Tran after an Agility, It's sad that there is only one point in it really.

Explain how a potential 219 Spe poke who doubles his speed cannot outrun a poke hitting 417. I want to see how you prove this. Also if Heatran were to switch in, as you said, it would be switching as I put up a Sub and it would be OHKO'd by STAB Surf without Petaya Berry since it can't hit me. If not, it is locked into Earth Power and I can just switch to Gliscor and force a switch or OHKO with EQ.

OK Grass Knot v HP Electric, on most water types Grass Knot is around the 100-120 mark, much more powerful then a HP Electric, Gyarados will be KO'ed with SR up after the petaya boost.

I see no need to put the most resisted type of attacking move on two of my pokes when i have a perfectly capable Swampert counter already. HP-Electric gives me great coverage, since only Lanturn resists it completely.

Note how you told me what I was "weak" to, yet you didn't once give me a way to solve them. Sorry if I seem rude but I like this team and you have yet to give me good advice.

 

[randomspot555]

Earthquake gets STAB, but the moment your opponent figures out that the sole attack is Earthquake, be prepared for Dragonite, Salamence, Gengar, or Gyarados w/ Taunt to come in and set up. Stone Edge will give you coverage against all of these guys

The other weakness is it makes it Taunt bait. You can prevent this by adding Taunt onto the set and hope that Gyarados DDs up insteads of Taunting you first. You can ditch Roost, since if your plans work, you won't have time or the need to Roost away any damage.

In fact, that's a weakness to a lot of your team. Your last 4 ALL require set up, and a mid late game Taunt user, or a suicide lead who happens to survive, can mess you up.

While Heracross is good for a one time use of absorbing sleep on Choice sets, a RestTalk set isn't all it's cracked up to be. Heracross can't take many hits, and Scizor usage means fire attacks are everywhere, and they won't mind using them on Heracross when he's asleep.

Forget about Protect on Vaporeon. I know the Eeveelutions have crappy move pools, but Vaporeon can be used to great affect to force switches by adding Yawn. HP Electric is basically only for Gyarados, but if you Yawn him, he'll switch out anyway.

 

[Rhys29]

Earthquake gets STAB, but the moment your opponent figures out that the sole attack is Earthquake, be prepared for Dragonite, Salamence, Gengar, or Gyarados w/ Taunt to come in and set up. Stone Edge will give you coverage against all of these guys

The other weakness is it makes it Taunt bait. You can prevent this by adding Taunt onto the set and hope that Gyarados DDs up insteads of Taunting you first. You can ditch Roost, since if your plans work, you won't have time or the need to Roost away any damage.

This is a pretty pointless arguement. You are suggesting, for some reason, I switch Gliscor into Gyarados. Since I can simply Agility as Gyarados comes in and then Baton Pass to Empleon or Tyranitar before it can Taunt me. Besides, do you really think a Gyarados switching into Gliscor would use Taunt? What would that accomplish? If anything it WANTS Gliscor to stay in since Fire Fang/Ice Fang and Earthquake are usually all that Gliscor carries. Does it not want it to Roost? No, it would DD up. There is no point of sending a Gyarados into a Gliscor just to Taunt it. Also, you are a fool if you think I would take my one healing move from my physical wall. Removing Roost from him is maybe the worst thing I could do to this team.

In fact, that's a weakness to a lot of your team. Your last 4 ALL require set up, and a mid late game Taunt user, or a suicide lead who happens to survive, can mess you up.

Did you also notice that all my guys who require setting up can attack? Which means I can just hit them as they use Taunt if it's a know Taunt user? Please to not mistake me for a fool. Taunt will really only effect Heracross, whom shouldn't be out long anyways. On every one of my other guys it might force a switch or I would be attacking them, so another pointless arguement. This is simply saying: "You have more than one move that isn't attacking on most of your sets. Your team is Taunt weak." Anyone who knows what is what in OU knows how to spot a Taunt user and when it will Taunt.

While Heracross is good for a one time use of absorbing sleep on Choice sets, a RestTalk set isn't all it's cracked up to be. Heracross can't take many hits, and Scizor usage means fire attacks are everywhere, and they won't mind using them on Heracross when he's asleep.

Rotom-H cannot OHKO with Overheat without proper investments that it almost never has. Same thing with Rotom-S. Rest Talker Hera is extremely underrated and it crushes a lot of teams. It can continually and effectively switch in on T-Wave, WoW, Toxic, and Hypnosis/Spore/Sleep Powder. Also if you didn't notice T-Tar hates Breloom with everything that it is and RstTlk Hera is the best counter to him (IMO). I need to counter him if I want to get my T-Tar out safely for the sweep.

Forget about Protect on Vaporeon. I know the Eeveelutions have crappy move pools, but Vaporeon can be used to great affect to force switches by adding Yawn. HP Electric is basically only for Gyarados, but if you Yawn him, he'll switch out anyway.

Forget Protect? Sure, I'll take away my insurance of recieving the Wish on turn two and lose it's ability to stall. I also lol at your contradiction. You say above all Gyarados is going to do is use Taunt on all my pokes and make them useless. So explain, under the aforementioned logic, how Yawn could be used on a Gyarados that is running faster than me and using Taunt? Also, I know Gyarados is a good threat to my team and since it can Taunt my Sub/Petaya Empoleon, I would rather OHKO it then have to switch out in the middle of my set up.

Once again, you have pointed out things that are really irrelavent or something I already have a good grasp on. The only thing I have benefitted from here is the confirmation that a more suitable counter to Gyarados may help my team. I would be changing things, I would make Empoleon a Specs Starmie or Vaporeon a Rotom-C. Anyone got anything to say about that?

EDIT: You, as well, have simply told me: "You are weak to ___". The only piece of advice you really gave is that I should swap out Roost on my wall for Taunt which is a rediculously terrible decision on this team since it is obvious I will be needing to use Gliscor a lot. I am actually beginning to question how you became a pro rater in the first place :\

 

[Digital Love]

Alright, I'll TRY to go easy on you.

From what I've noticed, you have four blue Pokemon, which is just asking to be raped by Yellow. Basically, you're Alakazam weak. Every sane rater knows that to solve this you'll be wanting an Orange Pokemon. But once you add that Orange Pokemon, you'll be extremely Purple Weak, so I'd replace Gliscor with a Green Pokemon, perhaps Moltres?

Anyway, I have drawn up a chart to explain my reasoning.

Alright, lets take a look. As you can see, Purple is on the opposite side of green, so Green will trump it everytime. Same with Blue and Yellow. Now, if you're are unsure of the typing, Orange is immune to Yellow, so it make a good switch in, though you'll want to give it a Pink move to really hit Yellow Hard.

Another thing I've noticed is that without one of your Blue Pokemon, Vappy, you now need a new Wish Passer. A good Black Pokemon, specifically Spinda. This way you'll get impeccable coverage, except for again Yellow-green Pokemon. Or is it Green-Yellow? Not sure, I'd have to check on that.

Overall the team balances out nicely, but it would be wise to watch out for your weaknesses, otherwise White teams will destroy you with 6-0

 

[Rhys29]

I see your point there. I will put keep Ice Beam since I have no other reliable way to take out Salamence. Thanks DL.

 

[Digital Love]

Glad I could be of assistance

 

[Blue Ace]

- Tyranitar @ Life Orb/ Expert Belt
Nature: Hasty (+Spe - Def)
EVs: 120 Atk/ 144 SpA/ 244 Spe
- Fire Blast
- Ice Beam
- Superpower/ Earthquake
- Crunch

You should have used this set to be honest, much better Mixed Tyranitar set and saves you the trouble of having Jirachi as a counter to counter Tyranitar's counters since this set hits them on it's own. Fire Blast for Skarmory, Forretress, Bronzong and Brelooms. Ice Beam for Hippowdon, Donphan and Gliscor. Crunch because it is reliable STAB and works better off it's higher base Attack stat for breaking down Cresselia, Celebi, Dusknoir etc, and Super Power/ EQ for type coverage, though Stone Edge is perfectly viable too I suppose.

Also this Tyranitar is by no means a good switch-in nor counter to Zapdos.

- 244 HP/ 188 Def/ 76 Spe, on Gliscor, outspeeds more pokes in it's speed zone.

- Vaporeon is not a good Salamence counter, nor should it be expected to successfully deal with it 100% of the time.

124 HP/ 252 Def/ 132 SpD

I've already told you that Pokes such as Vaporeon, are better off investing more into defenses than HP, since that will reduce the damage it takes more than just running more HP and less defenses, though feel free to prove me wrong if you have specific calcs. Needs HP Electric lest the team be Gyarados weak.

 

[randomspot555]

This is a pretty pointless arguement. You are suggesting, for some reason, I switch Gliscor into Gyarados. Since I can simply Agility as Gyarados comes in and then Baton Pass to Empleon or Tyranitar before it can Taunt me. Besides, do you really think a Gyarados switching into Gliscor would use Taunt? What would that accomplish? If anything it WANTS Gliscor to stay in since Fire Fang/Ice Fang and Earthquake are usually all that Gliscor carries. Does it not want it to Roost? No, it would DD up. There is no point of sending a Gyarados into a Gliscor just to Taunt it. Also, you are a fool if you think I would take my one healing move from my physical wall. Removing Roost from him is maybe the worst thing I could do to this team.

I did no such thing. Those Pokemon are going to be what will come in on Gliscor.

Why wouldn't it use Taunt? It makes a lot of sense because Glsicor has many team support sets.

As to your specific situation, it's role is to Baton Pass, and survive the hits it takes while it does so. Therefore, Roost just prolongs the battle. If you want additional protection, Substitute would be much better. Now you can safely set up and BP.

EDIT: You, as well, have simply told me: "You are weak to ___". The only piece of advice you really gave is that I should swap out Roost on my wall for Taunt which is a rediculously terrible decision on this team since it is obvious I will be needing to use Gliscor a lot. I am actually beginning to question how you became a pro rater in the first place :\

I could care less. I wasn't exactly lobbying for the position.

 

[Rhys29]

@ Blue Ace: Finally, someone who makes sense. Btw, since I have Vappy as a Wish passer and a Modest Zapdos can only hope to 3HKO with Thunderbolt while T-Tar can OHKO with Stone Edge, which was one of the specific reasons I gave him it. Stone Edge on T-Tar is rediculous. However, if I cut Vappy I would need to make it an Expert Belt user or is that going to be a better choice for me team overall? It is impossible for me to pass him both Agility and Wish, so for now Expert Belt is lookin pretty good.

Thank you for corrected EV's, wasn't too sure about Gliscor's and I wasn't that far off with Vappy >.> but the changes are appreciated. I have noticed that I will be having problems with Salamence if I don't play my team right, however it has yet to exactly give me a problem to say, but that is something I would like to fix. Ice Beam on a Starmie could help me take care of this, but that is not a Salamence counter and if I were to drop Empoleon I would loose my sturdy Dragon resist. Suggestions would be appreciated.

@ randomspot: Sub is maybe a better move, however the fact that I would be taking large chunks out of his Hp is not an appealing idea to me either. And Taunt has still yet to been proven useful on this team to me other than preventing a Salamence or Gyarados from DDing up which odds are he won't be able to do since it's more situational.

 

[Reno]

Heracross@Leftovers
Adamant, Guts
204 Hp, 56 Att, 180 Def, 68 Spe
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Brick Break
- Megahorn

Heracross @ Leftovers
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 HP/104 Atk/152 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Megahorn
- Sleep Talk
- Rest
- Focus Punch

The only ResTalk Heracross I like. 50% Megahorn during sleep is amazing, and Focus Punch hits like a truck if you can predict. Outspeeds Jolly Max Speed Tyranitar, leftovers in Attack.

More Speed on Empoleon. At least run 210 Speed to beat out neutral Scarfed base 90's.

Mamoswine weak. Horifically Mamoswine weak.

 

[Blue Ace]

The only poke that can successfully deal with your Mamoswine and Salamence problems, while still fitting in nicely with the team is Cresselia, and unfortunately, Vaporeon is the one that would be removed meaning you lose Wish support...

Switching around some roles could help with this.

ResTalk Cresselia, Wish Jirachi, Choice Band Heracross.

Or you could keep Heracross ResTalk and give Cress something like Reflect/ Ice Beam/ Psychic/ Charge Beam too.

Also Tyranitar really needs Crunch to kill the things that fear it (Cresselia, Dusknoir, Celebi) it doesn't really need Stone Edge as much as Crunch to be honest, since Ice Beam hits flyers and all, but if you really want to use it, then put it over Earthquake instead.

 

[Rhys29]

There we go, some more good advice. I'm not sure about those EV's yet, but Mamo is a problem that I have been trying to get around. My suggested changes of Starmie/Rotom-C > Empoleon. I have yet to see a Mamo, so it's a hard poke to keep in mind xp.

Tyranitar is meant to set the storm then gtfo. If he can kill the enemy lead, great, if not he runs so I get the SS up and protect him. I may be switching Gliscor with Zapdos, so he would take my lead spot.

EDIT: I'll change EQ then. I will consider the other changes.

 

[kinder surprise]

Mamos are all Jolly and scarfed now because of Heatran, they will see a boost in popularity one would think thanks to superpower.

anyway, that Vaporeon can counter that type of Mamoswine, just. CB Mamo isn't that common but poses a larger problem on this specific team.

So lets fix this?

Wish > Grass Knot on Jirachi

Grass Knot > HP Electric on Empoleon

Starmie > Vaporeon

Starmie@ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
Nature: Timid
EVs: 196 Spe/ 72 Sp.Atk/ 132 HP / 108 Def

- Surf
- Thunderbolt
- Rapid Spin
- Recover/Ice Beam

EVs outspeed Infernape seeing as non Scarf gengar is a nothing point to hit, because an OHKO is unachievable and it will OHKO you. 72 Sp Atk OHKO's Infernape 100% of the time. The rest are just split and probably require finer tuning.

 

[Rhys29]

Hmmmm. Tough choice really. The fact that Starmie supplies immediate power and can potentially handle Mamo with proper investments and can Recover away damage makes it very likable. However, Cresselia would be another good choice and is one of the few pokes that can actually hold it's own against Salamence. If I were to replace both Empoleon and Vaporeon for Starmie and Cresselia, I could kind of solve both problems effectively. Luckily I would also have Heracross to call back on Dark attacks and Gliscor for Bug attacks since my team would be very Heracross/T-Tar weak otherwise. Though Cresselia can't do too much damage to Mamo, it can completely avoid EQ, which is a big plus since Gliscor can't effectively switch in. For now, those two are the best options for switching and I'm not sure which to use if not both. Thanks for the Mamo heads up kinder, since I have relatively little experience with him. Feel free to edit these sets Blue Ace/Reno, these are rough drafts and I'm just going to do specific EV's.

Starmie@Leftovers
Timid, Natural Cure
236 Hp, 76 Sp.A, 196 Spe (Leftovers)
- Surf
- Thunderbolt
- Rapid Spin
- Recover/Reflect/Thunder Wave

Max lefties, can't be OHKO'd by +1 Gyarados' Bite or EQ and is up to 5HKO'd by ScarfMamo's Ice Fang.

Cresselia@Leftovers
Bold, Levitate
92 Hp, 252 Def, 164 Sp.A
- Ice Beam
- Charge Beam
- Moonlight/Rest
- Thunder Wave/Psycho Shift/Sleep Talk

Won't be OHKO'd by +1 Naughty Salamence's Outrage and OHKO's back with Ice Beam 100% of the time while Hp hits max lefties.

As I said, rough drafts. Also thinking of taking a look at Pory2, good idea?

 

[kinder surprise]

Starmie will work, the defense helps out against Gyara and Mence, Ice Beam in Starmies last slot will hit Mence very hard though due to Outrage you can't counter it unless you drop to 308 Spe and dump the rest in Defence which isn't really worth it.

P2 is a good Counter to Mence and Gyara, though finds it hard to win a team slot amongs the ones you mentioned, would Restalk Cress make Hera go all out attack?

 

[Rhys29]

Yes it would, my Hera has been changed to CB since I've been testing.

 

[kinder surprise]

Then edit the first post, I think that change being made, Cress in Hera becomes a CB set will benefit the team more.

good luck with testing

 

[Addie]

NO ONE EXPECTS THE SPANISH CHOICE BAND JIRACHI INQUISTION

Anyway, your Empoleon set isn't good. Agility SubPetaya Empoleon is one of the biggest threats in the game, and you're butchering it. Here's the set.

Empoleon @ Petaya Berry
Torrent
12 HP / 252 SpA / 12 SpD / 232 Spe
Modest
- Substitute
- Agility
- Surf
- Grass Knot

Okay, so here's how it's going down. Substitute on something that doesn't want to stay in on Empoleon, and Agility the next turn. Substitute two more times to activate your Petaya Berry and Torrent, and absolutely rape with Surf. Seeing as your team doesn't have a good answer to bulky Water-types, Grass Knot is better than Ice Beam. Make sure to get Celebi and Salamence out of the way first, though.

The EVs are relatively simple, max SpA with a Modest nature for maximum power. The 12 HP EVs allow you a HP stat divisible by 4, allowing you to get to your Petaya Berry after 3 Substitutes. The 232 Spe EVs allow Empoleon to get to 428 Speed, outspeeding +Spe Choice Scarf Heatran, and neutral natured base 90 Speed Pokemon, like Lucario.